My rifle consistently has 1st shot fliers with a cold bore. At 100 yards it could be close to 3" off from the rest of the group. Does anyone else have this issue. It doesn't seem to matter which ammo I'm shooting. Curious what could cause this. Is it the lube from the bullets in the cold bore??
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First shot fliers???
- Thread starter BisSilent
- Start date
Nope...sweat was running down the crack of my ass
What y'all call a cold bore flier, I learned is actually due to a dry bore.
The first shot is running down a dry surface. The second shot is running through
wet burn residue. Yep, wet. It looks like grey mud. Acts as a lubricant and changes
the way the bullet reacts to the rifling. The mud is created from condensation
caused by in barrel pressure drop from the first shot, mixed with the burn residue.
We should call it a dry bore flyer.
The first shot is running down a dry surface. The second shot is running through
wet burn residue. Yep, wet. It looks like grey mud. Acts as a lubricant and changes
the way the bullet reacts to the rifling. The mud is created from condensation
caused by in barrel pressure drop from the first shot, mixed with the burn residue.
We should call it a dry bore flyer.
My bores i dont believe are ever dry since i use the best snake oil on the planet, FP-10 
All bullshit aside other than i really believe in FP-10 in my rifle bores is usually when i have a first shot deviation as significant as you stated in a proven rifle it was me hamfisting it.
All bullshit aside other than i really believe in FP-10 in my rifle bores is usually when i have a first shot deviation as significant as you stated in a proven rifle it was me hamfisting it.
Carbon ring is what causes first round flyers. Carbon ring forms right where the bullet leaves the case. Over time this builds up and becomes thick. When you haven't shot the rifle a bit it will harden so the first round shot when it's harden will have a POI shift. After the first round is shot, this carbon is heated up / softens so the other rounds will all have the same POI.
For my Vudoo this develops after about 500-700 rounds, I do a thorough scrubbing of the chamber/ring area and soaking with Boretech C4 Carbon Remover and then I'll be good with no more cold round flyers for another 500 or so rounds.
For my Vudoo this develops after about 500-700 rounds, I do a thorough scrubbing of the chamber/ring area and soaking with Boretech C4 Carbon Remover and then I'll be good with no more cold round flyers for another 500 or so rounds.
Try some dry fire with snap caps, fired cases, drywall anchors etc. for a few minutes before and see if if things change.
What's called a .22LR cold bore flier occurs for the reason given by justin amateur. If the fouling in the bore is allowed to dry over a period of time, it will cause the first round to pass through it to behave differently than others passing through a bore that has a wetter, more consistent fouling. It's a reason why many BR shooters will want to avoid long waits without shooting when there is fouling in the bore.
Is there a way to defeat this with preheating the barrel or do you just have to sacrifice the first round and not make any corrections until reading your second shot. Competing in 22PRS and that 1 sacrificed round could be the difference between a win or loss?
Throw a couple shots into the berm is the usual solution off the bench.
I've read of tubing being fed into the chamber and used to blow into the bore
so the the moisture in the exhalation can condense onto the rifling.
Heard it was banned during black powder competitions according to some of the rules.
I've read of tubing being fed into the chamber and used to blow into the bore
so the the moisture in the exhalation can condense onto the rifling.
Heard it was banned during black powder competitions according to some of the rules.
Looking at the pics, I think your problem is that the bolt is on the wrong side of your rifle, ya know? 
Damn it....a right twist on a Southpaw rifle...destine to failLooking at the pics, I think your problem is that the bolt is on the wrong side of your rifle, ya know?
I was hoping to get more data on mine to see where it typically goes but so far mine it like yours...a little random
As @littlepod stated that erratic flyer is most likely a carbon ring formation in the chamber in your barrel. With my barrel clean but seasoned, I get a predictatble cold bore shot which is about 0.25 inches high and slightly left of POA. Then I start getting the same phenomenon with erratic first shot flyers about 500-700 round range as well. I run a RimX with a 18 inch Proof Competition Contour barrel. Most don't realize how difficult a carbon ring is to remove unless you borescope the barrel.
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My Vudoo has 470 rounds down the tube as of this weekend. Between shot strings and loading mags the First round is .2mil Left dead center. The next shots are were they should be. I have shot it enough to prove where it is on the bench locked down to know it is NOT me. I can go prone at 50 and bang the .5" KYL plate on the first shot then shoot what I need to after that. I am struggling with my Cold shots 75 and beyond for a 2" or smaller plate. the next range session will be to pull a snake through after each COF and see what it does for the next session. I am confident enough in the equipment to know it is repeatable and I am able to overcome it with practice. My Bergara was Not repeatable and I chased my tail all the time.
My Anschutz does the same thing, even after it was freshly cleaned. It hits high and left, about 2".
Mike
Mike
I started shooting ARA bench rest this year in the factory class with my CZ 457 MTR and I clean the barrel after every card I shoot so, per my bore scope, I don't get a carbon buildup, but I do get a cold bore/clean bore flyer for the first few rounds on every card I shoot. So I shoot the sighter target to both warm the barrel/chamber and to lay a layer of lube in the barrel and after 5 or 6 shots I'm able to start shooting at the targets. I develop a rhythm of shooting every so often at the target, or if the conditions change, I'll shoot at the sighters to keep the barrel temps the same until conditions are back to where I want to shoot the targets again.
Years ago I used to shoot black powder cartridge rifles and learned that you've got to keep the fowling soft if you want to shoot accurately. Since I think that .22 rimfire has a lot of similarities to that of black powder rifles, I've begun to incorporate some of my black powder experience with my rimfire shooting.
The rules in ARA specifically state that I can't do anything to the lube of the bullets, but it say's nothing about what I can do to the barrel. I've begun to experiment with lubing the bore of the barrel after I clean it. I use SPG lube, which is what I used to lube my black powder lead bullets' with and I believe it contains bee's wax and lanolin, among other natural things, but it stays rather hard and sticky even in the hotter temperatures. After cleaning the barrel, I rub some SPG lube into a patch and run this patch back and forth in the clean barrel several times until I can feel a consistent resistance throughout the bore. When I start to shoot again, my first few shots at a target are at the sighter, but I've noticed that while I may get a flyer, ( a little high and left), with the first shot, it's not as far outside of the group as it was before I began conditioning the bore with SPG. Many times I may not get a flyer at all, or if I do it's only this first flyer and the rest of the shots are in the group. So based on my experiments, I've incorporated the SPG patch as part of my cleaning regime.
Last week I very lightly rubbed some SPG on the driving bands of a few bullets and got an exceptional group with the first 5 rounds. I then let the rifle sit for awhile while I lubed up some more rounds and shot again but these groups were as good so I stopped the experiment. As I said, the rule state I can't shoot a modified bullet so I won't do it, but it does have me wondering if the .22 rimfire round needs better lubrication to help it's accuracy? I clean the bore after every 30-50 shots and there is no carbon build up in the bore or chamber. I've been shooting a particularly good lot of SK Rifle match that I have but I am running out of them. I was able to pick up a couple of bricks of Tenex (one brick rated at 1056 fps and the other at 1070 fps) and in testing both of these lots, the rifle should be able to be competitive, and I should have enough to last me the rest of the season. If we were living in normal times, I'd send the rifle off to be lot tested.
I'm shooting my rifle off of a Bald Eagle front rest and a rabbit ear rear bag, free recoil. The only contact I have with the rifle is my thumb and trigger finger pinching the trigger. I also use the SPG lube on the leather of the both rests and a little on the stock as the SPG is a little sticky, and I crank the ears on the front rest bag down on the stock so there is no recoil to speak of. I'm doing all of this to keep things consistent with my equipment. Since I think .22 rimfire shares some similarities to black powder cartridge rifles, the SPG lube I use is made of natural products. I wouldn't want to use made-made lubes as its been shown to have negative effects with black powder fouling. I clean the bore with Ballistol.
At this point, I feel my equipment is good and the biggest area of improvement I can make to improve my scores is in my wind calling ability.
Years ago I used to shoot black powder cartridge rifles and learned that you've got to keep the fowling soft if you want to shoot accurately. Since I think that .22 rimfire has a lot of similarities to that of black powder rifles, I've begun to incorporate some of my black powder experience with my rimfire shooting.
The rules in ARA specifically state that I can't do anything to the lube of the bullets, but it say's nothing about what I can do to the barrel. I've begun to experiment with lubing the bore of the barrel after I clean it. I use SPG lube, which is what I used to lube my black powder lead bullets' with and I believe it contains bee's wax and lanolin, among other natural things, but it stays rather hard and sticky even in the hotter temperatures. After cleaning the barrel, I rub some SPG lube into a patch and run this patch back and forth in the clean barrel several times until I can feel a consistent resistance throughout the bore. When I start to shoot again, my first few shots at a target are at the sighter, but I've noticed that while I may get a flyer, ( a little high and left), with the first shot, it's not as far outside of the group as it was before I began conditioning the bore with SPG. Many times I may not get a flyer at all, or if I do it's only this first flyer and the rest of the shots are in the group. So based on my experiments, I've incorporated the SPG patch as part of my cleaning regime.
Last week I very lightly rubbed some SPG on the driving bands of a few bullets and got an exceptional group with the first 5 rounds. I then let the rifle sit for awhile while I lubed up some more rounds and shot again but these groups were as good so I stopped the experiment. As I said, the rule state I can't shoot a modified bullet so I won't do it, but it does have me wondering if the .22 rimfire round needs better lubrication to help it's accuracy? I clean the bore after every 30-50 shots and there is no carbon build up in the bore or chamber. I've been shooting a particularly good lot of SK Rifle match that I have but I am running out of them. I was able to pick up a couple of bricks of Tenex (one brick rated at 1056 fps and the other at 1070 fps) and in testing both of these lots, the rifle should be able to be competitive, and I should have enough to last me the rest of the season. If we were living in normal times, I'd send the rifle off to be lot tested.
I'm shooting my rifle off of a Bald Eagle front rest and a rabbit ear rear bag, free recoil. The only contact I have with the rifle is my thumb and trigger finger pinching the trigger. I also use the SPG lube on the leather of the both rests and a little on the stock as the SPG is a little sticky, and I crank the ears on the front rest bag down on the stock so there is no recoil to speak of. I'm doing all of this to keep things consistent with my equipment. Since I think .22 rimfire shares some similarities to black powder cartridge rifles, the SPG lube I use is made of natural products. I wouldn't want to use made-made lubes as its been shown to have negative effects with black powder fouling. I clean the bore with Ballistol.
At this point, I feel my equipment is good and the biggest area of improvement I can make to improve my scores is in my wind calling ability.
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My 40x conversion with a Benchmade 26 inch MTU barrel with CenterX ammowill throw a slow round if I leave abut a minute between shots. Like I said, MTU profile, so I can’t think it is heat. I keep the barrel pretty clean and concentrate on the throatish area, but maybe I have carbon build-up. I haven’t correlated it to any shot position on paper, but I have seen the gun shot low, like 2mils or more at 200 yards. Makes long range shooting kind of a exercise.
My LabRadar hasn’t been behaving with 22lr, with subs and a 26 inch barrel, its like a suppressor, and even using the mic trigger doesn’t trigger consistently.
My LabRadar hasn’t been behaving with 22lr, with subs and a 26 inch barrel, its like a suppressor, and even using the mic trigger doesn’t trigger consistently.
I was able to mold mine in my trigger finger hand and it picked up every round. It comes with a strap to put it on the stock or scope. Cycling the bolt will cause it to pick up as well. I would disarm the device before cycling the bolt and rearm it before the next shot.
try wetting a patch with lock ease and running down barrel couple of times. fixed my rem 700 cold bore shot deviation. the graphite reduces friction in barrel
I think your group is smaller that .370. the caliper tips should be on the same side of the bullet holes to reflect center line of holes
nah
his calipers are propably zero'd at the size of a bullet hole in the paper
look at the group. its more than 3 bullet holes wide
if anything the group looks close to like .6-.7" to me
The calipers were zeroed at 0.22" so technically it should be a 0.366" group
I've read that the wax on 22lr bullets coats the bore as a lubricant and it takes some shooting off a clean bore to coat the bore for consistency. I have noticed when testing 22lr ammo that shooting a bunch of different ammo in tiny groups isn't as valid as a box of each. When I do a box of 5 shot groups it is common for the first group to be noticeably better or worse than the others.
To the person with the MRU that slows after a minute, could it be wax viscosity?
No idea how valid this is real world, but do you get the same distance of flyers with all ammo?
To the person with the MRU that slows after a minute, could it be wax viscosity?
No idea how valid this is real world, but do you get the same distance of flyers with all ammo?
