First shot going wide and the rest are stacked - what’s going on?

[jab00]

I wasn’t sure where to put this question so I figured that I’d start here...

Question:

What could be causing the first shot of each of my three 5-shot groups from yesterday go wide? If you look at the attached picture, the first shot of each group is wide and the rest are stacked on top of each other. I went back and looked at my notes and double checked that each of the flyers was the first shot of each group.

Is it something that I’m doing wrong or is it possibly the barrel/ammo combination or a combination of factors? I routinely have fliers in my groups but I’ve never seen it so consistently be the first round of a series of groups

Background:

• Rifle: AI AT
• Barrel: 24” factory .260 Remington (round count is 200)
  Scope: SB 3-20 Ultrashort, zeroed @100 using the same ammo in these strings
• Ammo: Prime factory 130 Match
• All 5 shit groups were shot from prone with targets at 100 yards, with a few minutes in between each string
• I had shot two 5 round groups before these to foul the barrel after it had been cleaned

 

[lash]

It’s you. It’s an extremely common occurrence for people to have a flyer in a five shot group, as you yourself see regularly. Most especially since those flyers are all over the place, they point to the problem as being you. I sometimes have the same problem, and then I know it’s time to settle down and focus on fundamentals until I’m good again.

 

[jab00]

It’s you. It’s an extremely common occurrence for people to have a flyer in a five shot group, as you yourself see regularly. Most especially since those flyers are all over the place, they point to the problem as being you. I sometimes have the same problem, and then I know it’s time to settle down and focus on fundamentals until I’m good again.

That makes sense, it’s just odd (to me at least) that it’s consistently the first shot in every group with this particular barrel. I took a look at some of my groups from the previous trip with this set-up and it’s a similar (first round flyers) scenario, unlike what I see with my 6.5 barrel targets where the flyers seem to random in sequence (usual caused by a crappy trigger pull when I watch my go pro footage).

I haven’t pulled the SD card from yesterday’s trip out of my camera yet, but maybe I was consistently doing a crappy first pull and subconsciously correcting myself with the subsequent ones

 

[diverdon]

Lash has already given better analysis than I am qualified do do. I just wondered how much you dry fire, and if you would be willing to dry fire at the beginning of your five shot string, to settle down.

 

[jab00]

Lash has already given better analysis than I am qualified do do. I just wondered how much you dry fire, and if you would be willing to dry fire at the beginning of your five shot string, to settle down.

I do try to dry-fire at least a little when I first get set up at (usually about 8-10 pulls) but I definitely could always do more at home and at the range. I didn’t dry fire before these three strings since I had already done so before I shot my other group of the day; however, I can always do more and dry firing between groups may not be a bad idea.

I did notice, while watching the GoPro footage of the string that matches up to the middle group in the picture with the high flyer), that my follow-through was absolute crap. I pulled smoothly but let go of the trigger almost immediately)

The only issue that really stood out in my go pro footage of all of the groups (that I wasn’t aware of yesterday) was that I kept fussing with the rear bag a lot on each of the first shots (and then the bag sinks a bit after each first round breaks). I then keep my face more or less on the gun and the bag in the about three same spot after that with the follow up shots with a minimal amount of fussing with the bag.

So, it sounds like I need to be doing a lot more dry firing and filming.

 

[diverdon]

The filming is good, Ive got to start doing that. But what I ment was put the mag in the rifle, close the cocked bolt on empty chamber. Mentally force yourself to forget the chamber is empty, shoot, work the bolt shoot. So in a way you could try six shot strings, but only look at the last five.

Of course that's only for training, but if it helped at all then you could mentally work out how to start with the second shot. With a few repetitions you could develop new habits.

 

[lash]

I do try to dry-fire at least a little when I first get set up at (usually about 8-10 pulls) but I definitely could always do more at home and at the range. I didn’t dry fire before these three strings since I had already done so before I shot my other group of the day; however, I can always do more and dry firing between groups may not be a bad idea.

I did notice, while watching the GoPro footage of the string that matches up to the middle group in the picture with the high flyer), that my follow-through was absolute crap. I pulled smoothly but let go of the trigger almost immediately)

The only issue that really stood out in my go pro footage of all of the groups (that I wasn’t aware of yesterday) was that I kept fussing with the rear bag a lot on each of the first shots (and then the bag sinks a bit after each first round breaks). I then keep my face more or less on the gun and the bag in the about three same spot after that with the follow up shots with a minimal amount of fussing with the bag.

So, it sounds like I need to be doing a lot more dry firing and filming.

If you were to just take that first “shot” as a dry fire instead and then slip in the mag and finish the group, you might find that you have settled into your position at that point. I specifically mean to put in the mag without moving your head off of the rifle.

I find that when doing ELR and single feeding, I do best if everything is right at hand. I can load, fire, eject, load, fire, eject, etc. without moving off of the rifle and my sight picture.

 

[theLBC]

shoot 6-shot groups and throw out the first shot.
does seem to be mental based on it being the first shot every time and not just a cold bore.

 

[jab00]

If you were to just take that first “shot” as a dry fire instead and then slip in the mag and finish the group, you might find that you have settled into your position at that point. I specifically mean to put in the mag without moving your head off of the rifle.

I find that when doing ELR and single feeding, I do best if everything is right at hand. I can load, fire, eject, load, fire, eject, etc. without moving off of the rifle and my sight picture.

Thanks - I’m going to try working this into the routine and see what happens

 

[hafejd30]

Not sure what your bipod setup is like but when I got my atlas cal and installed hawk hill feet on it I noticed myself twisting the rifle.

Shooting on dirt or gravel the bipod feet would dig in and I would induce a twist in the rifle ever so slightly when loading the bipod. Something I didn’t notice as much with the Harris I was used to using where the feet would slide easier

I started positioning the rifle as close to the center of target while in the bipod/rear bag before getting comfortable behind it. Now when I get on the gun it’s just a slight load but relaxed for the most part.

Was very noticeable with my krg chassis. The AIAT I have doesn’t have as much flex. With the krg I noticed it when I was lining up for a shot and kept feeling like I needed to induce muscle movement to hold the rifle to the left or right to stay on bulleye.

 

[jab00]

Not sure what your bipod setup is like but when I got my atlas cal and installed hawk hill feet on it I noticed myself twisting the rifle.

Shooting on dirt or gravel the bipod feet would dig in and I would induce a twist in the rifle ever so slightly when loading the bipod. Something I didn’t notice as much with the Harris I was used to using where the feet would slide easier

I started positioning the rifle as close to the center of target while in the bipod/rear bag before getting comfortable behind it. Now when I get on the gun it’s just a slight load but relaxed for the most part.

Was very noticeable with my krg chassis. The AIAT I have doesn’t have as much flex. With the krg I noticed it when I was lining up for a shot and kept feeling like I needed to induce muscle movement to hold the rifle to the left or right to stay on bulleye.

I’m currently using a TBAC with the rubber feet (I’ve got the claws but haven’t installed them yet). My club has concrete pads, so I’m letting the bipod sit on that just in front of my mat. I was using an Atlas PSR prior to the TBAC and know what you mean about the “flex” (I always felt like the rifle was falling over).

 

[hafejd30]

I’m currently using a TBAC with the rubber feet (I’ve got the claws but haven’t installed them yet). My club has concrete pads, so I’m letting the bipod sit on that just in front of my mat. I was using an Atlas PSR prior to the TBAC and know what you mean about the “flex” (I always felt like the rifle was falling over).

Just to avoid confusion the flex was the stock/chassis of the rifle while adjusting the rear bag. Due the feet of the bipod behind firmly planted.

Doesn’t sound like you’d have an issue with that tho

 

[jab00]

Just to avoid confusion the flex was the stock/chassis of the rifle while adjusting the rear bag. Due the feet of the bipod behind firmly planted.

Doesn’t sound like you’d have an issue with that tho

No - I don’t think that type of issue is playing into what I’m seeing. I’m pretty conscious of not overloading the bipod (I did run into that issue when I was using the bipod strap on my mat - I fell into the trap of “if a little pressure is good, then even more pressure would be better” and ran into some really bad groups - those issues stopped as soon as stopped using the strap)