First Sniper Match

[1911kevin]

Hi Folks,

I'm preparing for my first Sniper style match (Mammoth) and I am hoping to get a log going to document what I'm doing with the hope that this will result in some advice from those with more experience (which would be everyone I think) and maybe help someone else who is a newbie too if this pans out and is a positive thread. I've lurked here for a little while and I think/hope I've already benefited a bit from the posters knowledge. As I go through I'll post questions in <span style="font-weight: bold">[/b]bold</span> and if anyone wants to reply with advice or answers I would appreciate it. I'll try to break these posts up too so there not so big.

About me

I'm a long time competitive shooter that started with high power matches in High School and then transitioned to pistol when I found myself in California after college and few places to shoot over 100 yards in my area. I was pretty intense into IPSC/USPSA until moving to Chicago for grad school and having to bury my guns in a closet for about 7 years. I've recently gotten back into shooting competition and have been doing USPSA, IDPA and 3 gun and whatever else I can find. My rifle skill and knowledge is pretty basic but I have some natural ability for shooting for some reason.

My Goals

Be safe, learn a lot from this match and the process of getting prepared for it, and just have fun. There are 100 shooters for this match and while I'd like to finish well I could easily come in last and I'm cool with that, you've got to start somewhere.

Next post will cover my starting gear. Thanks for reading, feel free to chime in or PM me.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

My Rifle

When I started thinking about doing a sniper match my first inclination was to get all new gear, so I did a bunch of research and calculated a budget. When all was said and done I figured I wouldn't be able to get what I imagined together for at least a year and I wasn't even sure I'd enjoy this. So I started calculating what might be the absolute minimum I could budget for to just get in the game. I've had an old NM M1A in my safe just rotting away and while I've read much suggesting this might not have the accuracy I'd need to do well I figured it will be a while before my ability outstrips my weapon so why not use it? Also my father got this for me as a reward for getting good grades if you can believe and it has some sentimental value and I just hate tools lying around unused.

Mount

So I researched scope mounts and really like the philosophy and reviews on the Bassett Machine mount. I ordered the standard height picatinny rail model so I could co-witness the irons if I need to and this has already come in handy. After ordering it I wrote them an email inquiring how long it might take and they replied right away with a friendly message that they were sending it out that day! I got it a couple days later, their website said 2-4 weeks so I was impressed with their speed and professionalism. Installation was a breeze and it looks like it will work well.

Glass and rings

On my "get in the game right now" budget I decided to go with a SWFA 10x42 super sniper. The reviews are all great, I didn't want to mess with a variable with my limited knowledge and skill, and it's got a mildot reticle that I can hopefully learn to estimate range with for this match. While I was at it I bought SWFA rings and a mildot master. This gear was also shipped quickly and the scope and rings appear stout and the glass is clear and bright. Someday I'll probably migrate to a nightforce or S&B but for now this will do.

I haven't figured out how to post pics yet, after I do that I'll put a few in with some questions about my rifle. Thanks for reading.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Ok, I think I figured out how to add images so here goes:

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WiHgL6rL7mMVsLYmHjMSPg?feat=directlink[/img]

Everything put together

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lgCxnrL17XRKlSJ17Jnf_A?feat=directlink[/img]

The action, someone welded a rear lug on it before I got it, seems clean.

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1cPkoZJYjGLQJ0R4r6XgGw?feat=directlink[/img]

The bedding job, it's not cracked or anything, that void behind the rear lug has always been there and the lug is bedded all the way it seems. <span style="font-weight: bold">[/b]Is this a standard military bedding job?</span> The old log book I have for it says most of the work was done by USMC armorer Ray Sweet it appears. Next will be a range report, thanks for reading.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Range report

I had to hit the range to test out and sight in some new reloads for my Ar-15 for a 3 gun match tomorrow and I had to try my new setup. The only .308 ammo I had was half a box of old reloads. I loaded these in 1995 according to the label I put on it (tragic) and it also said it was mix of loads with ballC and IMR 4895. Case prep was minimal, brass was mixed, and the bullets and primers would have been 168 SMK's and Win LR's respectively. So needless to say my expectations were very low but I was dying to see if this setup had any potential at all or if I should go to plan B and start looking for a remy 700 SPS or something. You'll notice on the pics above I have no cheek rest yet, I've ordered one from Coyote M1A and Trevor has been so cool and professional and I hope to get it next week. I'm really batting a thousand with the vendors I've been dealing with for this project and it's making everything that much more enjoyable.

So for this shooting I had no chin weld, I put the rifle on a rest, no rear bag and ammo that was very questionable to say the least. Again, expectations set on "rock bottom" LOL. It took me a few shots just to get on paper as the initial position had the gun shooting a couple feet left and a foot low roughly. I used my irons (love that Basset mount) to get me in the ball park and dial the scope in.<span style="font-weight: bold">With this mount and rings is there any adjustment I can do to scope position without touching the windage and elevation knobs?</span> Once I got it close I shot a 3 round group that looked OK but not great. I then remembered the extreme distaste that many SH posters have for 3 shot groups and with my last 5 rounds I shot a 5 shot group (see, I'm learning LOL). I was very happy with the result for my first extremely rough go at this (100yards):

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/z-49jFsbqz75s4lV_8f4GQ?feat=directlink[/img]

I'm not sure if I measured this group correctly so please let me know if I screwed up. The at max distance from outer rings it measured 1.387 inches so I took that and subtracted the bullet diameter (.308) and came up with 1.079 inches. I was stunned that the gun shot so well under these fairly ridiculous conditions, it may have been a lucky fluke. I'd be happy and confident in my gear if I can go into this match shooting close to MOA at 100yards with some more work at the reloading bench and practice this suggests I'll get there just fine. Thanks for reading, let me know what you think.

 

[hrt4me]

Re: First Sniper Match

What exactly is a "Sniper style match (Mammoth)"?

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: First Sniper Match

Mammoth is an upcoming match in KY. It is being run by a hide member, he hosts many matches at year at his range and he always puts on a challenging and great quality match.

The Mammoth Sniper Challenge will be no expection. It will be a test of skill for every shooter who shows up, whether they are new to the game or have be in it for a long time.

OP- Given that you are limited by your gear and experience, I highly advise you to get a quality dope book (I prefer Impact Dope books) and start logging everything you do. Collect DOPE at every single range you can. Shoot as much as you, not just from prone and the bench. Figure out what areas you need to improve and work on those. To be sucessful at Mammoth you must be a well balanced shooter and have a working knowledge of the LR world. If you come to Mammoth with an open mind you will leave with a full head of knowledge and much more experience then you started with. There will be some very skilled and seasoned shooters there, many of whom are members of this site.

If you have any questions shoot me a PM, I will be shooting the match and ROing the event. I can help you to some extent but can not give away any details which are not already listed on the match site. Even the ROs are kept in the dark to keep the playing field level and fair.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What exactly is a "Sniper style match (Mammoth)"? </div></div>

http://www.mammothsniperchallenge.com/

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Thank you Knight11B4,

I followed up on your suggestion with a search regarding Impact Dope Books and PM'd Nomad with a request for advice on a newbie dope book, that's a great idea.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Quick update

Reloading- I had intended to do my reloading on an old single stage press but I was not able to find the darn thing. So I decided to just get another toolhead setup for my 550B. I reloaded about 50 rounds of 175smk's while titrating Varget but honestly I wasn't very focused and kept making minor errors with my loads and I wasn't confident with this ammo. I wasn't concerned about it being unsafe, just not as consistent as I needed. I had to put my 14 year old dog down on Friday and my heart just hasn't been in things this weekend. I took the ammo out to the range and my shooting was poor, unfocused and I didn't get any decent groups so back to the drawing board.

I got my Impact Data Book and it's great and should be a big help. I also got my cheek pad from Coyote M1A and it's very well made and exactly what I needed. I think I've got everything I need almost equipment wise, just need to work up my load and practice now.

 

[edward r homeyer]

Re: First Sniper Match

You can save yourself a lot of time and ammo by purchasing an atrag ballistic pda. and a kestrel 4000. build your gun in the pda input you barometrics then you true your gun. which is figuring out where your gun is actually hitting a certain range prior to subsonic. when you adjust your muzzle velocity in the pda. once that is done the pda will give you a range card. shoot a couple of intermediate ranges to proof the data and thats it in a brief overview. if needed you could get a range card past subsonic by extrapolating your bc. Write down your data and barometrics and thats all she wrote. except for wind. I'll break it down more if you would like. let me know

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Those sound like excellent suggestions JJ, unfortunately those aren't in my budget at the moment but I'll look to those in the future. I did get the Ballistics FTE app for my iPhone and that seems to be a powerful resource but I'm sure not at the same level as what your are discussing. Thanks for the feedback, means alot that you would take the time.

 

[Lindy]

Re: First Sniper Match

Ballistic FTE is a very capable program.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Update

Total newb move on my part. When I mounted my scope I did not do so with a torque driver, I just carefully snugged down the bolts with care so I didn't crush the tube. I didn't do a good job and after my last outing to the range I discovered that my scope had been moving. Probably partly responsible for the sub par groups I got last time out. I bought a torque driver and remounted my scope the right way, lesson learned.

Load development

I loaded some more ammo, titrating Varget from 41-43.5 grains and went back to the range. The sweet spot appears to be around 42.5 grains of Varget pushing 175 grain SMK's, using winchester LR primers and LC brass. Here's a 5 shot group of this load:

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6IsU9fKgOU3q4ANlNwi6jw?feat=directlink[/img]

I said before with this rifle I'd be happy if I could get around 1 MOA accuracy and it looks like I'm there. The final mod to the rifle I decided to do was install a Sadlak QD post insert. I removed the stock piece and followed the supplied instructions, routing out the stock for the insert with a dremel set up in a plunge router attachment, worked beautifully. I drilled the mounting holes out and then snuck up on a nice press fit using a round file, then bedded this in Devcon 2-ton epoxy and red loctite'd the hardware. Very happy with the outcome and the end result is now I can attach a Harris SLM bipod, here's the final product with the Coyote M1A cheek pad:

[img:left]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F1qnDuiTRadZoaEU1PNyzg?feat=directlink[/img]

I'm done shooting off the bench and goofing off with this rig, moving on to serious practice, different positions and different targets. Thanks for reading, holler if you've got any suggestions or comments for me.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: First Sniper Match

See you at Mammoth man.

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Hey Knight, are you going to the wind calling class and practice weekend(or teaching it?)? Planning on being there that entire weekend, hope to see you there.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: First Sniper Match

I will be there for every aspect of the event.

 

[Chiller]

Re: First Sniper Match

again...have said it before. People will look back at this macth and wish they were there from the beginning.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">again...have said it before. People will look back at this macth and wish they were there from the beginning. </div></div>


And I keep saying you are 100% right!



Your still climbing the HILL. lol

 

[J_Roger]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistic FTE is a very capable program.
</div></div>I agree, that and BulletFlight L2 (that's the on that I have on my iphone). They are both great software, and should be checked out. I love that Bulletflight recorded the atmospheric conditions when I zeroed and whenever I go to the range, it checks the current conditions and automatically compensates on my dope. Although I don't know if they can used at most comps.

 

[AKAce]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">again...have said it before. People will look back at this macth and wish they were there from the beginning. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">I was Signed up before the ink was Dry for it to even Happen

Your Right !</span>

 

[Short-bus]

Re: First Sniper Match

I'll be there, and i'm excited. It's going to be my first major match as well. I've done some other matches that weren't nearly as big as this one is going to be.

Since you're shooting 175 SMk's, just get the FDAC, no need for a PDA to do your dope. Get you a good load, get the velocity, insert the correct card into the FDAC and you'll have dope all the way to 1000 yards which you'll have faster access to than a PDA will provide.

Branden

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: First Sniper Match

Ive seen that fdac and wish sometimes i would have picked up and started shooting the .308 but i like barrel burners i.e. 243, 7mm, 338LM

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be there, and i'm excited. It's going to be my first major match as well. I've done some other matches that weren't nearly as big as this one is going to be.

Since you're shooting 175 SMk's, just get the FDAC, no need for a PDA to do your dope. Get you a good load, get the velocity, insert the correct card into the FDAC and you'll have dope all the way to 1000 yards which you'll have faster access to than a PDA will provide.

Branden </div></div>

Hi Branden,

Thanks for the feedback. I bought a mildot master and I was under the impression that I need to develop a real world drop table no matter what. Is the FDAC that certain? I've chrony'd this load so I can plug that in but I was under the impression that I've really got to shoot those distances. I have the Ballistic FTE app that gives me a drop table but I thought that might not necessarily be accurate for my particular gun.

 

[Pat M]

Re: First Sniper Match

Seems to me your on the right track and your rifle shoots well - keep up the good work!

Don't see many M1As at our long range matches - ? if they can hold MOA & shooter can

 

[Pat M]

Re: First Sniper Match

? 1911kevin - where you located ?

 

[bmarc69]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911kevin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll be there, and i'm excited. It's going to be my first major match as well. I've done some other matches that weren't nearly as big as this one is going to be.

Since you're shooting 175 SMk's, just get the FDAC, no need for a PDA to do your dope. Get you a good load, get the velocity, insert the correct card into the FDAC and you'll have dope all the way to 1000 yards which you'll have faster access to than a PDA will provide.

Branden </div></div>

Hi Branden,

Thanks for the feedback. I bought a mildot master and I was under the impression that I need to develop a real world drop table no matter what. Is the FDAC that certain? I've chrony'd this load so I can plug that in but I was under the impression that I've really got to shoot those distances. I have the Ballistic FTE app that gives me a drop table but I thought that might not necessarily be accurate for my particular gun. </div></div>
All of the ballistic calculaters are going to get you close. If you want to go online and not spend unnecessary funds, just google jbm ballistics. Use their calculator and print it off. Then come to the practice weekend and actually shoot the distances. Bring a data book and record every shot. There truly is no replacement for actual shot data. I've shot matches with guys using pda's and such and have also shot Joe's matches before. There will be plenty to do while shooting the stage and trying to use an electronic device while shooting probably wont be beneficial. There will be time limits. Make a dope card and attach it to your rifle. Review your log book while waiting your turn and try to make the wind calling class. That's all you need to get hits and have a good time. See ya there.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911kevin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the FDAC that certain?</div></div>

It has yet to let me down. Now granted I have limited my experience to 0DA to +2K DA, i'd love to be able to go somewhere where the DA is a lot higher and test it there as well. IMO, yes, the FDAC is that certain.

I'd put money, that with a known velocity and good zero, that FDAC will get you the correct elevation correction for any target out to 1,000 yards. It's worked for me plenty of times now.

Branden

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Outside of Nashville, TN

 

[1911kevin]

Re: First Sniper Match

Thanks Branden,

I ordered a FDAC and I'm planning on making it to the wind calling class and the whole practice weekend. I don't have anything nearby to practice long range so that weekend will serve as the bulk of my real range experience before the match, a little scary. My expectations are realistic though, I just plan on learning a lot I hope.

 

[evilmonkey]

Re: First Sniper Match

how far from Fort Campbell are you? we have a POW range out to 700 meters.

 

[Chiller]

Re: First Sniper Match

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KNIGHT11B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">again...have said it before. People will look back at this macth and wish they were there from the beginning. </div></div>


And I keep saying you are 100% right!



Your still climbing the HILL. lol
</div></div>

you never said how I have to "climb" it.....

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: First Sniper Match

Haven't decided yet, but I'm quite sure there will be fire, sharks with laser beams, and a bridge troll involved.