First time annealing, need help

[J-ROD]

Ok so I put together quite the rig but want to try this annealing stuff out before I make the switch to $$ lapua brass. This is Win brass (.308). What I am doing now is rotating the torch so that the inner blue tip is right in the center of the shoulder between the neck and the side of the case. I started off counting to 6-7sec but seem to have better luck just watching for the case mouth to just turn a dull red in a mostly dark room.
By the looks of the two heat lines, it seems only the case mouth got to the correct temperature where-as the base of the neck and shoulder need more heat.....is that correct?
If so, can I just re-anneal these to the same glow/temp?

Edit: The case mouths are a little peened, left them a little too long in SS Media

Thanks,

-Jarrod

 

[Captain Kirk]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Get yourself some liquid Tempilaq, it will be the best indicator you have reached the desired temp. You are most likely close, but we are talking metallurgy here and proper temp is critical.

HERE is a good ling with some info, 6mmbr.com also has a ton of info on annealing cases.



Kirk R

 

[Temp9]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I disagree. The Tempilaq method depends strongly on how close your flame is to the mark. We're worried about how much the neck and shoulder is annealed, so I personally feel the dark room method is more precise. It's very easy to tell right when the brass starts to change to dull red.

To the OP, your brass looks good where it's at. The shoulder shouldn't be annealed as strongly as the neck. The silver that you're seeing near the case mouth shouldn't extend down to the shoulder. If you want the shoulder to get a little more heat, move the flame to the body-shoulder junction, or just a little lower.

By the way, how are you removing your brass from the driver? I'm assuming the power drill tilts, allowing your brass to drop free?

 

[former naval person]

Re: First time annealing, need help

And...watch the flame color...as the brass hits the right temp, the flame itself will change color. Especially if the room lighting is way down. If it were me, I'd hold the screwdriver in my hand, and when the color change began, rotate my hand, thereby dropping the case to cool. Takes just seconds.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I disagree. The Tempilaq method depends strongly on how close your flame is to the mark. We're worried about how much the neck and shoulder is annealed, so I personally feel the dark room method is more precise. It's very easy to tell right when the brass starts to change to dull red.

To the OP, your brass looks good where it's at. The shoulder shouldn't be annealed as strongly as the neck. The silver that you're seeing near the case mouth shouldn't extend down to the shoulder. If you want the shoulder to get a little more heat, move the flame to the body-shoulder junction, or just a little lower.

By the way, how are you removing your brass from the driver? I'm assuming the power drill tilts, allowing your brass to drop free? </div></div>

Agreed. Tempilaq will tell you if the head is getting too hot but the only way to get the right amount of heat at the neck is by just getting to that dull red.
Your brass looks as good or better than I get from my expensive machine.

 

[Weaselthis]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Your cases look fine to me as well. I assume you're removing the hot cases w/ the glove? BTDT. Used a fireman's glove. Worked well, but cumbersome. Now I use a set of cheap aluminum bbq tongs. Drop em on a damp towel. I look for the color change of the flame AND the color of the neck. BTW...I try to adjust the flame tip to bear on the neck only as much as possible. I want to anneal the necks, not the shoulder. But it apprears you're doing well w/ what ya got. Good luck.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weasethis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your cases look fine to me as well. I assume you're removing the hot cases w/ the glove? BTDT. Used a fireman's glove. Worked well, but cumbersome. Now I use a set of cheap aluminum bbq tongs. Drop em on a damp towel. I look for the color change of the flame AND the color of the neck. BTW...I try to adjust the flame tip to bear on the neck only as much as possible. I want to anneal the necks, not the shoulder. But it apprears you're doing well w/ what ya got. Good luck. </div></div>

Why are you only wanting to anneal the case neck and not the shoulder? Seems like a waste of time. Sure, that would help as far as neck tension consistency but it seems like you would want to anneal shoulders to help keep consistent headspace too.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Your brass looks as good or better than I get from my expensive machine. </div></div>

Ditto here.
I personaly wouldn't try to anneal the shoulder.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys!

I may end up getting some tempilaq but not for the necks but for the case head, one of things I am worried about is the AL case holder I have getting heat soaked and possibly softening the brass there. I don't think that's going to happen but wanted to be sure. These 100 cases took about ~15mins to do so that's not a lot of time for the holder to cool off in between.

Yes I am using a thick leather glove to pull the brass out of the drill, the propane torch is what's rotated, up against a stop so that the torch tip to brass distance is always the same, well +/- .125" anyways lol. It actually goes pretty quickly, don't know why I waited so long to start annealing my brass.
I may switch it around so I can drop the brass into a bucket as mentioned...I got plenty of wood and screws haha
BBQ tongs, good idea Weasethis!

I found a thread somewhere on here that has the inner blue tip pointed at the shoulder/body junction. Then I noticed the instructions for most auto annealers says to make the side of torch even with the top of the case mouth, which would put the heat on the neck mostly as mentioned here. But I also noticed they are using 2-3 torches and have them farther away than I do/need to with just one torch? If I am really over thinking this and just need to carry on as is, I will, just double checking with all the experts here.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[30SMK]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Your brass looks good. I have a giruad annealing machine and I usually get brass that looks about like. Good job and keep doing what you are doing.

 

[1066]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Personally I think that if I get any red glow from the case I've gone too far. When I set my machine up I use the darkend room trick to see the start of the red glow then speed up the timing a little. I run with one torch and a .308 just starts to turn red right at the neck in about 10 secs then I just speed up the machine to give me about 8 secs.

 

[Ishallbie O'Cullkillin]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I've been using the dark room method for about a year now. It takes about four seconds to get the dull red, then drop them in water, like I read on 6mmBR forum. I've done a few thousand .223 as well as 2500-3000 .308s. My scientist/metalurgist friend seemed interested, but pointed out that I was only re-hardening the brass by water quenching. I decided to just let them air dry, while annealing a batch of once fired Winchester .300wm. About 80% of the cases fired would not extract, & showed surface cracking just above the belt. I feel lucky that none ruptured, and threw the batch to recycle.
Is anyone else annealing magnums? what did I do wrong?

 

[MacM11]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I use the Bench-Source machine. It uses the 2 torch method and takes 4 seconds after I've made the correct adjustments. This is Lapua .308 brass. This also depends on how close and hot the flame is adjusted.
I don't use tempilac anymore cause I've experimented with (screwed up alot of) brass that I now know what the finished color/sheen looks like.
Also, I called Bench-Source about the water bath and they said "No".

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MattK287</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My scientist/metalurgist friend... pointed out that I was only re-hardening the brass by water quenching.</div></div>

Your metalurgist friend needs to re-open his textbooks. Copper doesn't harden by rapid quenching.


I've been annealing with a torch and I hold the cases by hand in a damp rag used as the heat sink - the tip of the inner, brighter blue flame is the hottest point (you can heat your work up faster by not letting this flame touch your metal, conversely you can slow things down a little by moving inside the blue flame). The wet rag accomplishes many things: I can dunk right away, it never allows the head to get over 212F, and it's actually so efficient at moving heat that the mouth never glows red either so timing and over-annealing have yet to be a problem like the methods I tried when learning. Metal sockets and such never gave me consistency like that because they'd begin heating up, holding with bare hands never got the necks hot enough, etc. Doing it this way, I don't need to work in the dark because the flame will begin to change color and the wet rag will hiss as water is converted to steam - I just watch the color change in the metal and bring it around to where I want it. It's easy, it's fairly consistent, and it's safe.

Also, I like the annealing to dip past the shoulder. Why not? When you size, you're squeezing the neck and pushing the shoulders back, so every bit of that case that gets worked should get annealed. I'm in it for brass life.

To the OP, your cases look beautiful. I would try to bring the blue line down to the neck/shoulder junction just a little further if it were me and bring the silver line up, but those cases are probably just fine like that.

Here's how mine come out:

 

[-Nick-]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MattK287</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My scientist/metalurgist friend... pointed out that I was only re-hardening the brass by water quenching.</div></div>

According to several sources the key is even cooling and quenching does in fact work...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)

 

[sentry1]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I'm going through this same deal, learning how to anneal my brass. I tried 650 Tempilaq, but it just turns to char pretty fast, and holding it by hand, the case head gets pretty hot before any signs of annealing show up.

I think I'll try the wet rag next. I did have this genius idea to put the cases in an ice cube tray, so they'd each have a little block of ice on the case head to keep the temperature down while annealing. Any thoughts on that?

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: macm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the Bench-Source machine. It uses the 2 torch method and takes 4 seconds after I've made the correct adjustments. This is Lapua .308 brass. This also depends on how close and hot the flame is adjusted.
I don't use tempilac anymore cause I've experimented with (screwed up alot of) brass that I now know what the finished color/sheen looks like.
Also, I called Bench-Source about the water bath and they said "No". </div></div>

Four seconds for Lapua 308 is about right for me too but you must be sure you have the flame adjusted properly. That is going to be very important for the OPs setup. I suggest strongly using the dark room method to get that nice dull red color to the neck. Water bath or damp towel is not necessary. Mine drop off the plate on my Bench-Source into a pie pan.

 

[sentry1]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I tried annealing some cases tonight. Using a Benzomatic burner, it takes about 5 - 7 seconds holding the case neck at the tip of the inner blue flame before it glows a dull red, then I dump in some ice water.

I'm not seeing any of the regular signs of annealing, but I'm fairly sure I haven't overannealed, since the case necks are still firm, and can't be deformed by hand.

Bought some 650 Tempilaq based on a sticky posted here on the site, but it seems like everything I've seen since recommends 750 instead.

 

[Jrb572]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I am also not having luck setting up my guiard. I can not get the neck and shoulder to change color. I get just a bit. But my templaque in the neck turns black and my case body with 450 burns off just about 1/4" from the shoulder. But no major color change

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Are you watching the inside of the case neck? That is where you want to see the dull red appear, just as the case turns out of the flame.
Also, in the beginning, I was getting too much Tempelaq on the case. It takes only a very (and I mean very) thin line to do the job. You will leave smudges on the case too. That is why I hold back some of my old worn out brass for set up.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Ice cube tray: clever idea, give it a shot. How are you going to quench the cases?

Case neck softness: shouldn't deform by hand. It will be metallurgically softer, but not anything you'd notice by hand. You can use junk cases and squeeze them with pliers, then you'll notice the difference. Or shove them into your collet die with the collet stuck closed....

 

[NoFail]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MattK287</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My scientist/metalurgist friend... pointed out that I was only re-hardening the brass by water quenching.</div></div>

Your metalurgist friend needs to re-open his textbooks. Copper doesn't harden by rapid quenching.


I've been annealing with a torch and I hold the cases by hand in a damp rag used as the heat sink - the tip of the inner, brighter blue flame is the hottest point (you can heat your work up faster by not letting this flame touch your metal, conversely you can slow
things down a little by moving inside the blue flame). The wet rag accomplishes many things: I can dunk right away, it never allows the head to get over 212F, and it's actually so efficient at moving heat that the mouth never glows red either so timing and over-annealing have yet to be a problem like the methods I tried when learning. Metal sockets and such never gave me consistency like that because they'd begin heating up, holding with bare hands never got the necks hot enough, etc. Doing it this way, I don't need to work in the dark because the flame will begin to change color and the wet rag will hiss as water is converted to steam - I just watch the color change in the
metal and bring it around to where I want it. It's easy, it's fairly consistent, and it's safe.

Also, I like the annealing to dip past the shoulder. Why not? When you size, you're squeezing the neck and pushing the shoulders back, so every bit of that case that gets worked should get annealed. I'm in it for brass life.

To the OP, your cases look beautiful. I would try to bring the blue line down to the
neck/shoulder junction just a little further if it were me and bring the silver line up, but those cases are probably just fine like that.

Here's how mine come out:

</div></div>

These look awesome. I'm gonna try and duplicate this look.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

lol thanks man! I like 'em too!

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Thanks for the kind words and again for the help. I'm going to try these out as well as some 5x fired annealed brass against new brass to see if they all shoot about the same.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

I don't shoot at the level to notice it, nor are my guns set up with strict enough standards to emphasize it, so I can't really speak about any accuracy changes (whether good or bad) done by annealing. What I can speak of is twofold: one, neck tension is easier to dial in because the softer necks respond to subtle changes at the die (whereas a harder neck will maintain it's sprung shape), and that can be seen even at my skill level; and two, brass life thus far in my 22 hornet, 223, and 308 testing has been infinite. I'll have more info on the Hornet soon, and plan a small write-up on it.

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MattK287</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My scientist/metalurgist friend seemed interested, but pointed out that I was only re-hardening the brass by water quenching. </div></div>

Unlike your friend, I actually am a metallurgist (tribologist) and your friend is not only totally wrong but also shows such a low level of understanding that it makes it pretty clear he doesn't even understand the basics. Brass (B7) in this case can be air cooled or quenched with no meaningful effect to a shooter. The process is nothing like iron alloys which is what your friend is thinking about.

Now back to annealing. The most important factor that nobody has mentioned is that time is just as important a factor as heat. You can anneal brass at 400degrees or 4,000degrees, the time at temp is what really matters. The ice cube tray idea that somebody posted is a waste of time/effort. If your web is effected by your annealing of the neck/shoulder area than you're doing it wrong and for way too long. Now because everybody's process is different so too it the time at temp. Trying to gauge your results based on somebody else's process is not going to work. Your process can only be gauged by your own empirical testing. The key is going to be to methodically test cases keeping the process exactly the same until you find the exact temp:time ratio that gives you the desired effect.

RyanMctire's brass looks perfect but you can get that look and still be doing it wrong but I'd bet he's got it right.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RyanMctire's brass looks perfect but you can get that look and still be doing it wrong but I'd bet he's got it right. </div></div>

Haha I'm no metallurgist, I could still be doing a bunch of things wrong.

I'm a Fire Captain by day, if anyone needs advice on working out and napping on the clock, I'm an authority; annealing brass, just a hobbyist.

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: First time annealing, need help

me too, having trouble understanding why annealing the shoulder. neck tension makes sense to me, each bullet holding on with the same tension... but fire-forming the brass should have your shoulder perfectly conforming to your chamber right? I bump my shoulder back .003" so there's room for some expansion and to facilitate unloading. Someone clue me in on the need for shoulder annealing.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Someone else should answer with their input too, I seem to be dominating this thread.

The reason I anneal isn't for the brass tension benefits; I'm not shooting it from anything that would reveal that level of detail, nor do I believe I'm of that skill level. The reason I anneal is because it returns brass to a softer, pre-hardened state. Every time brass is moved and flexed, it hardens. The two areas on my cases that move are the shoulder and neck. The reason I anneal is for case life.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Keep in mind I don't have any experience with annealing other than what's posted, but in my simple head, it makes sense that the shoulder should be softened to original specs since I am FL sizing every time and definitely work hardening it. With that being said, most of my loads have the bullet sticking into the case some so having a hard shoulder has to affect the neck tension some. I know the most accurate loads are using new brass, so I am trying to anneal as much of the case that I safely can to keep things "new" where it counts.

 

[Killshot44]

Re: First time annealing, need help

You shouldn't anneal the shoulder. The small amount of brass being moved there when FL sizing isn't enough to work-harden the brass.

Only the neck get's hardened - by getting blown out by firing and squeezed back when resizing. When a hardened case is fired its the neck that will split, not the shoulder. Trying to anneal the shoulder does no good, you're just getting heat farther toward the casehead.

Water quenching just gives you wet brass, does nothing for it.

Going by look is a fantastic way to go if you want to undercook or overcook your brass.
Different brands will look differently even when properly done, even the cleaning method used can impact the look.

Use a machine, learn how to use Tempilaq or get a crush-gauge. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Then again, you could just send it to this guy http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3689348&page=1

 

[cloudy]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Tag for later.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Killshot, that is a violation of rules #8 and #9 of board rules. This thread has been brought to moderator attention.

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Killshot, that is a violation of rules #8 and #9 of board rules. This thread has been brought to moderator attention. </div></div>

???

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: First time annealing, need help

You are the expert I would defer to, so I'm hesitant to say if he's spreading false information. I don't mind being wrong either. But tell me I'm doing it wrong without saying why and advertise your super special services? I find it to be low brow advertising as well as a violation of board rules.

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it makes sense that the shoulder should be softened to original specs since I am FL sizing every time and definitely work hardening it. </div></div>

Yep, but the effect is very marginal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With that being said, most of my loads have the bullet sticking into the case some so having a hard shoulder has to affect the neck tension some. </div></div>

Yes and no. The neck tension post sizing would be nearly static regardless of the 'hardness' of the shoulder because it's post sizing. There is some spring and the spring rate is in large part derived from the hardness of the metal but I'm really splitting hairs here and for reloading purposes spring is an irrelevant factor.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the most accurate loads are using new brass, so I am trying to anneal as much of the case that I safely can to keep things "new" where it counts. </div></div>

Actually, the most accurate loads are usually with fire-formed brass.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You shouldn't anneal the shoulder. The small amount of brass being moved there when FL sizing isn't enough to work-harden the brass.</div></div>

There is going to be some strain there so hardening would be a factor although I agree it's far less than the neck.

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are the expert I would defer to, so I'm hesitant to say if he's spreading false information. I don't mind being wrong either. But tell me I'm doing it wrong without saying why and advertise your super special services? I find it to be low brow advertising as well as a violation of board rules. </div></div>

Oh, I see. Yeah it's an advertizement of sorts but he got the clearance to post it from Lowlight so it's good to go.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

On phone so will respond later, thanks for response high binder....to be clear MY most accurate loads are with new brass, gets worse as i reload without annealing

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On phone so will respond later, thanks for response high binder....to be clear MY most accurate loads are with new brass, gets worse as i reload without annealing </div></div>

There are a whole mess of things that could be causing that but typically fire-formed brass is going to be better than out of the box new brass.

 

[johnnyappleseed]

Re: First time annealing, need help

i used to set my brass it a pie pan full of water and tip them over once heated to cool them down

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Well after taking some advice in this thread, I changed my rig up a little. Second go around:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The lighting makes them look darker than they really are

I use a lee collet die then a gutted Redding type S FL sizer to bump the shoulder, my headspace use to vary a couple thou case to case.
This (and first batch) brass not only sizes easier, but my headspace is almost always dead nuts what I set it at, -.001". Weird how now I can tell if the case has too much or not enough lube on it as that number will swing half a thou either way if I'm not consistent.
Bullet seating is much more consistent. Hopefully I will have some accuracy improvements...should know soon.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

J-rod, that looks perfect!

 

[turbo54]

Re: First time annealing, need help

J-Rod: Those look like jewelry. It'll be a shame to fire them and mess them up. I assume, however, that you'll anneal them again soon and restore their beauty. You obviously put a LOT of effort into your ammo.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Holy Shit,
If only I could make my cases come out of my Giraud looking like that!
Come clean JRod, where's the all black ones, and the ones that don't look like a torch touched them?

There's one thing I NEVER learned from fishing hard for walleye's for 15 years. There is no magical lure, and throwing as much cash as possible at something will not guarantee you a spot in the winner's circle.

Nice job!

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Lol, thanks for the compliments...I'm blushing like a little school girl. That's funny Turbo, I hadn't thought of that...great...I may shed a tear setting these puppies off now.

I am an inganeer so I usually spend way too much time on the details that don't matter. I am hoping this time it pays off. Problem is I have more time to load than I do to shoot, so I spend all this time (midnight hours) on my gear and ammo and it doesn't really matter because my shooting is what needs the most work. I guess it helps to have one side of the equation working for you.

So for anyone going to Butner tomorrow, hope to see you in the AM. I am scrambling to get these loaded and everything ready, 2.5hr drive for me so gotta leave early, proly just stay up all night.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Haha Milo, thanks!
I do have a couple where I got out of sequence in my timing and over cooked them, I burnt my hand on one of them too...as it turns out, no you cannot run your bare hand through a torch and not get burnt.
Oh I am the king of rigging, a saying at work is "that's J-rigged". Love me some tie wraps.

I think the camera is making them look better than they are. I just hope they shoot better

 

[High Binder]

Re: First time annealing, need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am an <span style="color: #FF0000">inganeer</span> so I usually spend way too much time on the details that don't matter. </div></div>


I'm an astron<span style="text-decoration: underline">o</span>t

[you're obviously (hopefully) joking^^]

Well your brass looks good so your 'ingeneering' looks spot on.

 

[Savage15]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Annealing is simple in concept. When brass is cold worked(resized)the crystalline structure of the metal is deformed. Over time the stress and strain within the case necks will cause them to fracture, or slowly change shape back to what its original shape was. Therefore throwing the loaded round out of concentricity, making it less accurate. When a certain amount of heat is applied to the brass it will re-crystallize and take on a stable shape.

Here is a link to a picture of cold worked brass at 400 micrometers:

http://pwatlas.mt.umist.ac.uk/internetmi...-worked_z3.html

Here is a link to a picture of cold worked and ANNEALED brass also at 400 micrometers:

http://pwatlas.mt.umist.ac.uk/internetmi...s/annealed.html

It seems like you guys sure do have the art of annealing down though.

 

[WhiteHunter]

Re: First time annealing, need help

Hi All, here’s my two pennies worth based on three years’ experience annealing my cartridge case necks that I use for precision competitions. I’ve used the Tempilaq compound and have found it’s not as easy / precise as using whatever set-up you may have in a darkened room and looking for the dull red glow on / in the case neck only. Two things also I have found IMHO: these are:- the residue from the oxidation caused by the process is surface hard and can damage even the titanium nitride coated bushes from Redding - clean this off with powder solvent if you need to neck size after the procedure. Secondly, again IMHO, 6mm bores and above, I’ve found that I need to increase the neck sizing bushing by +0.001” to achieve the same neck tension compared to a once fired case going straight into the prep regimen. Additionally, I’ve found that properly annealed case necks do improve consistency and thus accuracy. Annealing is an art, you are going beyond at this level, if I’d seen this thread content in the past I probably could have saved myself a lot of time and some of costs but for me, as an engineer it’s an extension of the hobby that leads to improvements on the target so it’s been worth the effort. Incidentally, I don’t think you could possibly apply enough heat to the neck zone only that would anneal the case head, thus creating a dangerous condition, in a dynamic (timed) system. Hope this helps.