first time issue

[A.Hutch]

Fellas this is my first post here, yoohoo, ya, anyway... I've got an issue I've never had in the 20+ years of reloading and I'm not sure which direction to go.

OK, Background...
I recently traded for a brand new remington aac-sd rifle in .308. swapted out the crappy ass Houge stock with a little better B&C, looks an feels soooo much better...

The issue...
I have a crap load of LC brass( a good thing) and brand new RCBS full length die set. I was prepping some brass today and decided to chamber an empty case after it had been full length sized, Here's the issue, A super tight fit....WTF??

OK, I also have some once fired factory federal brass that I used to sight my scope and get a baseline accuracy measurement, it chambered easily right out of the box. OK, then resized the fed brass, super tight fit...WTF!!!

Now the brass from both sized brands have a swiped/shiny ring from the bolt face swiping/rubbing from the excessively tight headspace...

Soooo, would this rifle have a tighter chamber, or do I have a full length die that aint right???





Hutch

 

[milo 2.0]

Is your die set right for the rifle? Take a few pieces from each batch, and start turning your die down, and check with each adjustment to see if it fits.
Will any of the brass fit without sizing? I'd say you need to bump your shoulders a little more.

I wouldn't think a factory Remington would have a tight chamber.

 

[jeff1383]

Measure the headspace from one of your once fired pieces of brass with a stoney point tool or hornady headspace guage. Then set your die up to bump the shoulder back 2 thousandths. This may vary from brass brand and lot so check it often. I learned this lesson the hard way.

 

[waste_knot]

Couple of issues. The fact the as fired chambered and then after resizing it did not I'd check the brass OAL. The chamber length is probably about 2.010 but the brass grows in length when it is resized. You may have a seperate issue with the LC. If the LC brass has come from a loose chamber like a M60 the brass will have so much spring-back it won't chamber without first and just once sizing it through a small base body die. The AAC will probably have a big enough chamber that the standard FL die will work. My AAC will chamber anything. Shoot some virgin brass and save a case in order to measure all chamber dimensions like headspace and neck diameter.

 

[A.Hutch]

OK, the die has been adjusted from one end to the other, It's a full length die, it aint that hard to adjust. To me, it doesn't seem that the die is bumping the shoulder at all. as evidence with the federal brass which was factory loaded, and fed an chambered fine, no issues. I can take that same brass, full length size and its a super tight fit. That should not be happening, the bolt should damn near be falling closed on its own.
Here's some pics

Now a once fired case from this chamber shouldn't be hard to chamber after its been sized, neck or full length, but its super tight after running it through my full length die.
I should not be getting this kinda brass transfer to thne bolt face.

 

[A.Hutch]

I guess an admin has to approve of my pics first...

I'm aware brass gets longer when sized, but it's still within spec after being sized?? I think the shoulder aint bein bumped at all!! period!! and it's pissin me off!

All the federal ammo chambered fine, even chambered before full length sizing, but gets super tight after full length sizing???? I'm inclined to think my die is fucked...




Hutch

 

[A.Hutch]

By the way......
Thanks for the input guys



Hutch

 

[milo 2.0]

I guess an admin has to approve of my pics first...

I'm aware brass gets longer when sized, but it's still within spec after being sized?? I think the shoulder aint bein bumped at all!! period!! and it's pissin me off!

All the federal ammo chambered fine, even chambered before full length sizing, but gets super tight after full length sizing???? I'm inclined to think my die is fucked...
Hutch

Sometimes a guy has to cam your press over pretty hard to bump the shoulder. I'm not even remotely trying to question your technique, but all presses flex some. I've had some pretty unruly cases before, and had to reef on them more than a guy would think he should have to.
If at all you don't think it's the shoulder, measure unfired and fired cases close to the base to see how much it's expanding there.

 

[zuke]

Are you sure the die's are set up right? Maybe came un-screwed a bit?
OAL after sizing?

 

[A.Hutch]

am I sure....hmmmmm

no worries, Thanks for the help and suggestions


Hutch

 

[A.Hutch]

Milo I know of exactly what your talkin about, but ultimately, the shoulders are not bein bumped back at all, hence causing a headspace issue....

Got a body die comin just to bump shoulders back



Hutch

 

[jasent]

Could be your die,could also be your chamber is short,may need to trim your brass? Have you looked in your chamber with a bore light,could be its got a burr sticking out or some carbon build up. I'd also check headspace on fired brass vs. Sized. Rcbs will fix or replace the die if it's bad. Great customer service. As mentioned you may need a sb die, Not common prob for rem but maybe its a Monday morning model

 

[milo 2.0]

Milo I know of exactly what your talkin about, but ultimately, the shoulders are not bein bumped back at all, hence causing a headspace issue....

Got a body die comin just to bump shoulders back
Hutch

Hutch,
Good luck. It's funny it's the die. Around here people bitch about diff brands of stuff, and Rcbs doesn't have a good following. But here, when push comes to shove, if I need something sized right for unknown reasons, I grab the trusty Rcbs sizer, they seem to get the job done when my Redding's are just fucking shit up.
Glad you mentioned buying, I need to order an Rcbs fl sizer for my 6.5x47, to try get rid of the fucking donut caused by Redding bushing dies.

 

[A.Hutch]

This is the first time I've had an issue with a die not sizing properly. I've used several brands.
I can take a fired case and hold it next to a sized case an SEE the difference in shoulder location...

As far as chamber issue's, I'm sure it's possible. Carbon build up?? nope. its only had 20 rounds through it plus whatever Remington sent down range.

Mmmmmm, donuts.....yummie hahahahaaha
I hate bushing dies for that very reason. you could inside ream, I'm sure you've considered it also...

This still pisses me off though. Was really wantin to spend this weekend working up a load...OOOOh well... Maybe I'll just molest my wife all weekend and drink all the whiskey



Hutch

 

[NC Cruffler]

Not all shell holders are made equal. I've found some variances in height between different brands which affected resizing. Make sure your shell holder is RCBS.

 

[A.Hutch]

the shell holder is bumping the bottom of the die

As long as the shell holder is square, it dont matter the brand. And yes, not all are equal


Hutch

 

[milo 2.0]

This is the first time I've had an issue with a die not sizing properly. I've used several brands.
I can take a fired case and hold it next to a sized case an SEE the difference in shoulder location...

As far as chamber issue's, I'm sure it's possible. Carbon build up?? nope. its only had 20 rounds through it plus whatever Remington sent down range.

Mmmmmm, donuts.....yummie hahahahaaha
I hate bushing dies for that very reason. you could inside ream, I'm sure you've considered it also...

This still pisses me off though. Was really wantin to spend this weekend working up a load...OOOOh well... Maybe I'll just molest my wife all weekend and drink all the whiskey



Hutch

My donut is on the outside, I can't visually see it, or feel it on the inside. I'll have to weigh it financialy, I'm leaning more towards sticking my pecker in a vise before turning necks.

 

[A.Hutch]

outside donuts huh... does it effect chambering the round??



Hutch

 

[milo 2.0]

outside donuts huh... does it effect chambering the round??
Hutch

It hasn't yet, but I'm on 3 firings, getting worse as it goes. It started becuase the reamer used is .005 over loaded round size in the neck. I have two guns, both same reamer, so far the donut is chamber size, at .293, what the neck was reamed at. So my logic is, get a reg die and push it back down, which will ultimatly force it to the inside, deal with it as my throat erodes through seating depth.
Basically I'm fucked!

 

[fish30114]

I have had a few dies over the years that would not size enough to hit the shoulder when the die was in as far as tolerable in the press. That may be the case with that die for that rifle. I solved the issue in my case by chucking up the die spindle in a portable drill and spinning against my belt sander for a few seconds, taking a few thou off the die. The die then hit the shoulder and off to the races. If your die is screwed in far enough to not be practiceable to go any further, I would definitely take a few thou off the die.
Good Luck

 

[P7id10t]

Forgive me if I missed it but I didnt see any hard length numbers.
When you fire a case can you return to battery with that same case easily?
Then, once you resize a case can you easily slide it in all the way just using your pinkie?
If you can, check headspace. If any resistance, your FL die is causing base bulging at the bottom of the case.
Had this happen with a Lee FL die. Replaced it and problem was solved.

 

[A.Hutch]

Fish, I'm inclined to think you hit the nail on the head.....
One more reason to buy a lathe

Hard numbers; all the cases are within spec before and after as far as OAL. I can take a case put it in the chamber, it falls in then when I attempt to close the bolt it gets real tight.



Hutch

 

[Ken1941]

Hutch,

I think that without having a lathe, it might be easier to take some off of the shell holder. It should not make any difference if you take off too much, as you can adjust the die, after you get the shoulder to bump. It sounds like you do not have more than .002 to .004 to go.

Good Luck
Ken

 

[easternncnative]

I have had an identical issue with my Rem 700 TAC in .223. I talked to Hornady about it and they said either send the FL die to them or have a local machine shop remove 0.005" from the bottom of the FL die.

I did and the problem was immediately solved.

 

[A.Hutch]

Well, I just about fucked up. I took my shell holder to the grinder an took a little off the top. Went back an proceeded to size a case, as I started the up stroke to remove the case the shell holder gave up ghost......Hmmmmmmm, maybe I took a little too much off, lol. Anyhow, when scroungin through my shit an found another shellholder, pulled the case out, proceeded to chamber freshly sized case an it fell in the chamber, bolt closed with no more resistance than when empty...YA me!!
So, now I'm gonna trim a bit off the die

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help.



Hutch

 

[George63]

I have taken a few thou off a die with just a file - a few strokes, then rotate 1/8 turn will keep it square enough

 

[dustinoif3]

Hitch I'm glad you started this thread! I'm almost in the same boat. I'm on my second firing and took a shoulder measurement from the said fired case and sent it to the FL die slowly while checking the shoulder. What I found was my fl die wasn't doing anything to the shoulder! Ill be taking a file or something to it soon. I'm semi holding off to see I can get a sticky bolt so I can gather some info.

 

[milo 2.0]

Well, I just about fucked up. I took my shell holder to the grinder an took a little off the top. Went back an proceeded to size a case, as I started the up stroke to remove the case the shell holder gave up ghost......Hmmmmmmm, maybe I took a little too much off, lol. Anyhow, when scroungin through my shit an found another shellholder, pulled the case out, proceeded to chamber freshly sized case an it fell in the chamber, bolt closed with no more resistance than when empty...YA me!!
So, now I'm gonna trim a bit off the die

Thanks again for all the suggestions and help.
Hutch

Hutch,
That's almost funny, I think someone earlier mentioned to try that trick, I kinda scoffed also.
It is a good reminder to people to keep 1 certain shellholder for sizing, all the time. On one end of my bench where I size, I keep a box of shellholders, on the other end where I prime, I keep another one so I'm not mixing them up.

Glad things are coming together.

 

[Deadshot2]

I'm with the "not all shell holders are equal" group. I've had my share of those that were mis-marked by whoever Hornady or RCBS uses to make them.

I've also run into a few that were special shell holders designed to reduce the amount of shoulder bump. I've taken to marking shell holders and dies so I always use the same pair. So far I'm pretty lucky and in many, many thousands of rounds loaded, I haven't had to "hit the grinder" yet. I do use the heck out of a Hornady Headspace gauge attachment for my caliper. Makes it a snap to set up a die.

 

[A.Hutch]

OK. Here's what I've done. With a different shellholder (the only one I have left now) I've taken my full length die to the grinder. Removed approximently .020
so i set up my die obviously to far from my shell holder at the top of the stroke. I take a new piece of brass, run it into the die then attempt to chamber, knowing it aint gonna chamber. then adjust die 1/4 turn, size die again, chamber again. I do this same process until I can start to feel the bolt start to close. Then begin adjusting the die 1/8 of a turn until bolt closes smoothly. Now, Die is set optimally to full length size for MY rifle.
Soooo, range time! let me just say I am very happy with this rifle and component selection so far

Now, the shell holder issue.... Yes I do agree, not all shell holders are equal. Infact if I see a case tip as its going into a sizing die then that shell holder is obviously not square, and results in a short trip to the trash can.


Hutch

 

[ronnl001]

I just skimmed over the other responses but, given that this is LC (presumably .MIL) brass, is your die a "small base die." I have found these to be necessary in the past with certain weapons and brass of unknown origin.

 

[A.Hutch]

I do have a small base die set, but I use that for my pop's M1A NM.



Hutch