FL body VS bushing dies

[iceng]

I'm preparing to have my jimmies rustled.

I love Redding type-s dies. I've used them extensively and had great results.

Recently (last year to 18 months) I've been messing with wildcatting brass again. Not creating new cartridges, more about turning one to another.

I was originally turning 243win into 6x47lapua, and results were mixed. I was using a few custom made dies (for forming it down), and a Redding type-s for final sizing. Accurate, does what I wanted, (for my testing) and I'm happy. I was however experiencing weird neck issues.

Stumbled across a Forster FL body die. What the hell, it was cheap, I'll try a few more with this, and a 21st century expander mandrel.

Much better results. Consistent neck tension (during seating), and "better looking" loaded ammo.

Yes I internal neck ream and OD neck turn. Yes it's large primer.

It all came about while forcefully investigating internal "donuts", how they effect velo, ES/SD, and seating forces. Seating back into the case to really notice it, VS seating them out so the base of the bullet doesn't get near it.

Anyway,. I'm honestly thinking I'll try going back to a "normal" FL body die and use expander mandrel to get ideal neck tension rather than using bushing to achieve neck tensions.

Have at it. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I'm preparing to have my jimmies rustled.

I love Redding type-s dies. I've used them extensively and had great results.

Recently (last year to 18 months) I've been messing with wildcatting brass again. Not creating new cartridges, more about turning one to another.

I was originally turning 243win into 6x47lapua, and results were mixed. I was using a few custom made dies (for forming it down), and a Redding type-s for final sizing. Accurate, does what I wanted, (for my testing) and I'm happy. I was however experiencing weird neck issues.

Stumbled across a Forster FL body die. What the hell, it was cheap, I'll try a few more with this, and a 21st century expander mandrel.

Much better results. Consistent neck tension (during seating), and "better looking" loaded ammo.

Yes I internal neck ream and OD neck turn. Yes it's large primer.

It all came about while forcefully investigating internal "donuts", how they effect velo, ES/SD, and seating forces. Seating back into the case to really notice it, VS seating them out so the base of the bullet doesn't get near it.

Anyway,. I'm honestly thinking I'll try going back to a "normal" FL body die and use expander mandrel to get ideal neck tension rather than using bushing to achieve neck tensions.

Have at it. Tell me I'm wrong.

I’ve never had a great experience with bushing dies. Now my experiences has been with saami spec chambers so the neck expands more than usual and using too small of a bushing on an overly expanded neck has Ill affects but the hell with it if I’m going to step the bushing sizes down to keep the uniformity and concentricity of necks. I’ll probably never buy one again unless I’m necking down or doing something custom. I’m pretty fond of forester dies, can’t beat them for the price, there are better but out there but for a few hundred dollars more than a forester.

 

[Steel head]

Not a huge fan of bushing dies.
If your chamber has a fairly tight neck and die only has to size the neck 3-4 thou they work fairly well.

Custom honed Forster FL or a body die/Lee collet are my preferred dies.

 

[spife7980]

I voted something else as Im pretty evenly divided among bushing dies with mandrels and full length (some honed) with mandrel.

What Ive found is that a good barrel can accommodate both dies with no noticeable (to me) difference after load development, a bad barrel is bad with both.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

I use a Redding body die followed by Lee collet die for almost all cartridges I reload. This method has achieved the most consistent neck tension and lowest runout of all that I have tried.

 

[marchboom]

When I tried a Redding bushing die it substantially increased runout. I now use Forster FL dies honed to a specific I.D. and the runout is the same as when the case comes out of the chamber.

 

[fxdrider]

A 'body die' sizes the body only, and not the neck at all. A full-length die (FL) is really just a regular die, sizing both neck and body at once. If you are using a body die, you would also need to use an additional die to squeeze the neck down to proper dimension. I do that with a Lee collet die, which squeezes the neck against a mandrel of the appropriate size. That's worked well for me, giving me .002" neck tension. I tried neck sizing for a brief time, and didn't have very good results. Much better results with the setup I'm using now - body die and Lee Collet die.

 

[Franko]

I experimented with the following:

1. Redding body die followed by a Lee Collet Die
2. Redding full length bushing die followed by an expander mandril
3. Forster full length sizing die (with the decapper removed) followed by an expander mandrill

All three were very close in concentricity with Forster/Redding Body Die combo being pretty much tied with the bushing die/mandril coming in a very very close third. The test was performed using 10 rounds of once fired 6.5CM ammo for each combination.

I now use the Forster/Mandril combo because if I want to adjust neck tension all I need to do is swap the mandril.

 

[iceng]

I briefly experimented with having the decapper pin and expander button left in the die, and completely removing it, and then trying expander mandrel, and comparing concentricity of just the necks.
So far I found removing the pin completely and then using a mandrel to be marginally better, however a sample set of 8 is not big enough. And it was minor. Will do it again in a few weeks with maybe 50 each way.

Thanks for the input all, it seems I stumbled across what most people already knew.

 

[tho98027]

Any sammi cartridge go Forster FL non bushing all the way. Any true ackley improved 40 degree chamber go FL nonbushing as well. Any wildcatting where the neck or shoulder are being changed or slightly improved, go bushing FL.

 

[hafejd30]

For my 300 PRC I’m working on I plan to use Redding type S FL bushing die/21 st century mandrel and Redding comp seater. I used the Redding bushing die with my 338 LM and had good results on Lapua brass

My go to setup tho is Redding body die/Lee collet die. Running across my Holland concentricity gauge runout is best with this combo for me.

I wonder if Lee would make a 300 PRC die??

 

[acudaowner]

while I am still trying to feel like it's not a waist of time adding the extra step to use the mandrils as I have already paid for them I will Continue to use them but either way I get as good results tight neCks or loose . with 6 different neCk bushings none of whiCh ever worked well enough for me I am not buying any more of them the mandrels worked from the first one I tried to the one I Chose as the tightness I liked .

 

[Dogtown]

I've gotten to the point where I like to split out operations as much as possible and am now using Body Dies for shoulder bump, then bushing neck dies and mandrels for neck control in my 3 main cartridges (6.5x47L, .300NM, .338LM Imp40). Everything else is just FL Dies.

 

[iceng]

while I am still trying to feel like it's not a waist of time adding the extra step to use the mandrils as I have already paid for them I will Continue to use them but either way I get as good results tight neCks or loose . with 6 different neCk bushings none of whiCh ever worked well enough for me I am not buying any more of them the mandrels worked from the first one I tried to the one I Chose as the tightness I liked .

Something wrong with your C key....

 

[Cr1775]

I cast my vote as somthing else. I seem to use a little of all of them depending on the cartridge im loading for.i think it all has to do with the quality of your dies. Just my thought.

 

[NH4X]

Something wrong with your C key....

You ain't right.......here it is 5:30am and now I have spit coffee running down my chin roflmao

 

[Steel head]

For my 300 PRC I’m working on I plan to use Redding type S FL bushing die/21 st century mandrel and Redding comp seater. I used the Redding bushing die with my 338 LM and had good results on Lapua brass

My go to setup tho is Redding body die/Lee collet die. Running across my Holland concentricity gauge runout is best with this combo for me.

I wonder if Lee would make a 300 PRC die??

You can do what I did and modify a 300 WM collet for 300 prc

It’s fairly easy.

 

[hafejd30]

You can do what I did and modify a 300 WM collet for 300 prc

It’s fairly easy.

Pm me what it took to mod it please

 

[kthomas]

I use a FL bushing die with expander mandrel, with great results.

Never played with other methods to determine if I can get better results or not otherwise, as I've been pretty content. So I personally can't provide personal experience that compares other methods/dies.

My 6BRA is my best shooting rifle, it uses a custom made Whidden click adjustable FL sizer with expander mandrel, it was made to my chamber/reamer specs. Not sure how much that has to do with it. But haven't seen a need to change out my dies for something else.

 

[Stevo86]

Body die/Lee collet here

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Something wrong with your C key....

His C key seems to be working fine, his c key on the other hand......

 

[impactaddict]

back and forth between option 3 and 4 - remove sizing button and finish with mandrel...both work fine.

Voted for option 3 because buying multiple bushings for all my calibers gets expensive.

 

[CK1.0]

I'm voting "something else", because IMO, following however one sizes their cases, the answer is: mandrel, always (expander, never).

As to whether FL bushing die vs standard FL die? I'd say a custom honed FL die is "best", followed by FL bushing die (assuming a properly sized bushing) being "better", followed by a standard FL die being only "good"... since a regular off-the-shelf non-honed standard FL die works the shit out of the necks.

Using either a standard FL die or bushing die, alone, with its dumb expander thingy intact, is kind of caveman at this point. There's no real argument anymore, an expander is half-ass and the mandrel is the way.

 

[c999]

I'd been doing FLSB or FLSBBushing. I could never figure lee collet neck dies out... ruined a lot of brass trying.

Now have a mandrel in the mail and forster FL dies (I'll remove the ball).