Night Vision FLIR Breach still the best for a helmet?

[Glassaholic]

Looking for a clip-on thermal that works with a helmet, handheld and possibly on rifle. The Breach has been around a while but is it still the best for the price? I can get them from a non-Hide dealer, but would rather go with a Hide dealer so if you know of any of our guys who has these let me know.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

The breach isn't weapon mountable as far as I know

 

[Glassaholic]

I didn't necessarily mean the Breach could be weapon mounted, I was just saying that is what I'm looking for but not a must have. Just wondering if the Breach is still the best helmet mounted thermal on the market today for the price.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Probably best bang for the buck. Also have a look at the iray25 and nox 18 if you're considering stepping up in price. I started at looking at the breach and ended up with a nox.

Eta realized your the glass guy. Look at the nox. Your probably not gonna be happy with the breach. Just sell a scope or two its worth it.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Looking for a clip-on thermal that works with a helmet, handheld and possibly on rifle. The Breach has been around a while but is it still the best for the price? I can get them from a non-Hide dealer, but would rather go with a Hide dealer so if you know of any of our guys who has these let me know.

Robert at JRH Enterprises (Lowdown) on the Hide is a dealer for the Breach's. Excellent sales and service.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Robert is awesome. I would give him a call before making any final decisions. And I'm not knocking the breach. Its a proven device and the price is right. I have a thread over on the ar15 forum for the nox18 that someone posted side by side images of the breach and the nox. There's no doubt the breach is effective. It's probably comparable to my 1000$ Japanese scope which gets the job done and one of your wunderscopin being the nox.

 

[PowPowHawg]

I’ve had/used both. If funds are tight Breach has good value but if a none issue go NOX and don’t look back... Check’s all your boxes... NOX is leaps ahead of the Breach in everything.....

 

[Glassaholic]

Coming from the daytime optic world im trying to figure out all the specs. When looking at the NOX 18mm, it appears to have half the display resolution as the Breach yet you’re saying it performs quite a bit better? Is it safe to assume the NOX has a larger objective and microbolometer? And that matters more than display resolution?

just found this thread

Night Vision - Flir Breach vs NOX

Would like to hear advice from some of the more experienced users here. I’m looking to change my setup a bit and a little torn on which way to go. Current setup: PVS 14 Handheld thermal scanner Weapon mounted thermal sight This setup works pretty good but in order to scan it requires that...

www.snipershide.com

Sounds like maybe it’s a pain to try to swap from helmet to weapon and all that in the dark. So maybe the Breach is “good enough” for helmet use and then get something else for weapon use.

So is the Iray 25 maybe a good in between? Between the Breach and NOX? Trying to find some side by side videos.

One other thing, I’m trying to avoid Chinese made gear, I’m sure some electronics are going to be from there but if I can avoid most of the manufacture and parts that’d be ideal.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I believe the nox has twice the resolution of the breach with the 320 vrs 640 being the relevant number. The 12 vs 17 also matters but I've forgotten what all the numbers mean. The iray25 would be the same as the nox. The iray gets excellent reviews but if I remember right a lot of people switch the diopter out for a pvs14 unit and when thats added to the cost it came too close to the nox for me.

Your terrain and usage will play a big role in what the best choice is. If hunting is your primary focus a breach on your head and super hogster on your rifle would be a tough combo to beat and would be similar in cost to a nox. Digital zoom sucks so if you need magnification get base magnification. In rough terms on a rifle think of the nox 18 as a thermal red dot and a super hogster or halo lr as an acog.

 

[Geeb]

One thing to keep in mind, Flir no longer sells to the civilian market. Therefore, no repairs

 

[newguy2k3v2]

One thing to keep in mind, Flir no longer sells to the civilian market. Therefore, no repairs

They're still selling the breach as far as I know. They stopped selling weapon sights

 

[SkyScrapin]

Coming from the daytime optic world im trying to figure out all the specs. When looking at the NOX 18mm, it appears to have half the display resolution as the Breach yet you’re saying it performs quite a bit better? Is it safe to assume the NOX has a larger objective and microbolometer? And that matters more than display resolution?

just found this thread

Night Vision - Flir Breach vs NOX

Would like to hear advice from some of the more experienced users here. I’m looking to change my setup a bit and a little torn on which way to go. Current setup: PVS 14 Handheld thermal scanner Weapon mounted thermal sight This setup works pretty good but in order to scan it requires that...

www.snipershide.com

Sounds like maybe it’s a pain to try to swap from helmet to weapon and all that in the dark. So maybe the Breach is “good enough” for helmet use and then get something else for weapon use.

So is the Iray 25 maybe a good in between? Between the Breach and NOX? Trying to find some side by side videos.

One other thing, I’m trying to avoid Chinese made gear, I’m sure some electronics are going to be from there but if I can avoid most of the manufacture and parts that’d be ideal.

@Glassaholic

The Breach definitely has merit for a budget 320 unit, but as has been said, the Nox is leaps ahead in terms of image and quality (separating these generalizations on purpose). The MH25 is comparable to the Nox, but requires aftermarket parts, isn’t as durable, and is a CCP product. This is at a high level of course.

Give me a call for a free quick and dirty education on your options.

Preston

 

[Lowdown3]

Flir discontinued the Thermosight weapon sight line- that's it. No PC BS about "not selling anything to civilians" nor any lack of support etc.

They DO service the Breach units.

Hell you can get a new internal battery for your 2009 era Scout I 240 still if you are willing to pony up the $400. ish which is likely more than the old Scout I 240 is worth.

Now on the Breach vs. Nox-

Truth be told, we have seen more issues lately with the Breach units. You pretty much absolutely have to plan to use an external power pack versus a CR123 or use the battery extender that one of the readers here designed.

The Breach units seem to have issues with off spec CR123s. I can't remember someone having an issue while running a power pack however.

Nox- the 18mm unit is da bomb! Last weekend was at a Reece class and we were doing a recon against OPFOR from a ridgeline through some heavy trees. I have able to pin point some of the Opfor with the Nox that were completely unseen via binoculars. Had it on a lanyard, used it and tucked it back into my jacket and moved on.

 

[Glassaholic]

@Glassaholic

The MH25 is comparable to the Nox, but requires aftermarket parts, isn’t as durable, and is a CCP product. This is at a high level of course.

It's that underlined part that will keep me away, I had a feeling that might be the case with the Iray.

 

[stefan73]

There is a IR Patrol for sale in the for sale section for a good price.

 

[Rerun7]

OP, I was going through this same decision a couple months ago and decided to just buy once cry once and go with the Nox.

The MH25 was close to $5k by the time you added the pvs14 eye piece plus the durability is in question as is the service level, plus it’s made in China.

Breach seemed ok for the money but lots of reports of issues (although a lot more units out there) and Flir’s service has been known to be bad the last couple years.

The Nox is expensive but is getting rave reviews, made in the USA and the service level seems great.

 

[Lowdown3]

The Nox is expensive but is getting rave reviews, made in the USA and the service level seems great.

Able to do a good bit more than the Breach also, something to consider.

 

[Rerun7]

The Nox is expensive but is getting rave reviews, made in the USA and the service level seems great.

Able to do a good bit more than the Breach also, something to consider.

Thats a great point because unlike the breach you can weapon mount it too if you want to and from the images I’ve seen it still looks pretty good at 4x and 8x.

I’ll tell you for sure when mine gets here, haha.

 

[GreenMushroom]

The digital zoom can be useful for shot placement but doesn't help with pid. If you can't tell what it is on 1x zooming doesn't really help. We recently got one of the 3x magnifiers for my wife's pvs14. With supplemental ir light it is better for pid than the nox. Spot with the nox an id with magnifier.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I ran a Breach opposite a 14 for a while, didn't love it: I missed lots of small things, my brain didn't stitch the 2 images together well, and the Breach required more fiddling. I have now gone back to dual 14s and the other guy is responsible for thermal scanning.

In the end, it really comes down to the task you need to do well. I found that a Breach made doing a few things okay, but didn't make doing anything awesome.

If you do get a Breach, get the 5-button remote, it is a lifesaver at leaving the thing alone on your face and making adjustments on the remote. The buttons on the Breach suck balls, the remote is titties. That is all.

 

[stefan73]

I ran a Breach opposite a 14 for a while, didn't love it: I missed lots of small things, my brain didn't stitch the 2 images together well, and the Breach required more fiddling. I have now gone back to dual 14s and the other guy is responsible for thermal scanning.

In the end, it really comes down to the task you need to do well. I found that a Breach made doing a few things okay, but didn't make doing anything awesome.

If you do get a Breach, get the 5-button remote, it is a lifesaver at leaving the thing alone on your face and making adjustments on the remote. The buttons on the Breach suck balls, the remote is titties. That is all.

Good luck finding the remote! Last I looked they weren't made anymore.

 

[Glassaholic]

If you do get a Breach, get the 5-button remote, it is a lifesaver at leaving the thing alone on your face and making adjustments on the remote. The buttons on the Breach suck balls, the remote is titties. That is all.

Didn't even know there was a remote option, but to stefan's point, can they even be found anywhere?

 

[Lowdown3]

I special ordered some a good while back now. I'll look tomorrow and see if by chance there is one or two hanging around in some bin.

 

[Dvlray6]

The Trijicon Skeet-IRx fits the bill of helmet mountable, weapon’s mountable, or handheld. The image quality is fantastic and the controls are very easy to navigate. Only downside is price, but I think it was $$ well spent.

 

[deersniper]

Yes it’s a shame @TheHorta is gone He would lay the smack down with his dual skeetirx lol

 

[DoubleHaul]

I special ordered some a good while back now. I'll look tomorrow and see if by chance there is one or two hanging around in some bin.

Put me on the list if you find one.

I have dual 14s on a KVC and a Breach. It really depends on what I'm doing, but for walking dirt roads and hog hunting I'm almost always running the helmet mounted Breach these days. It likely slows me down a bit (especially if I go off the beaten path), but I see a LOT more wildlife. Had a friend out hunting with my spare 14 this past weekend and it was pretty apparent that he was basically blind without thermal.

 

[Glassaholic]

I've been communicating with @SkyScrapin and @wigwamitus and I have to say these two are great assets to the Hide community! I appreciate everyone's input in this thread, sounds like the NOX 18 is truly the best option; however, being a total newb to the whole NV thing for the price/performance, I think the Breach is going to be the place to start for me. StrictlyOffensiveKit is putting together a "starter package" as I'm calling it to get me setup with a full helmet kit with everything I need for a PVS 14 and Breach, I appreciate their experience and insight as there are lots of little parts and pieces that would have taken me a while to figure out. Huge thumbs up to SkyScrapin and wigwamitus from https://strictlyoffensivekit.com/

 

[Glassaholic]

Verdict is out on using the PVS 14 and Breach together at the same time, but was watching NiteWalker's video on YouCensorTube and he talks about orienting the Breach in the portrait mode for a better experience when used in conjunction with the PVS 14, definitely something I'll have to try.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I've found the thermal pvs14 fusion to be very dependent on the individual. My brother preferred the white hot on the nox while I started out with black hot and ultimately settled on white outline mode which gives kind of a coti on steroids effect. My recommendation is to put in the time and try different things. I think its a pretty small percentage of people that it instantly clicks for.

Another thing I find my nox or coti useful
for is when you want to bring your focus in on your 14 for really technical terrain the thermal still views at a distance so you won't stumble onto unfriendly critters.

 

[earthquake]

What mount/bridge are you running with the 14/nox setup? I got a nox-18 recently and my bridge doesn't work...at all with the nox.

 

[broskibrobro]

What mount/bridge are you running with the 14/nox setup? I got a nox-18 recently and my bridge doesn't work...at all with the nox.

Curious, which bridge are you using?

 

[earthquake]

Curious, which bridge are you using?

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.

www.modarmory.com

The nox is an inch + closer to my face than the 14, and the way it has to attach, causes it to be rotated and almost upside down.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Mod Armory d14. As your I'm sure aware at this point the threaded hole on the nox is not in the same place as a 14 in relation to the eyepiece. With the d14 mini arm and the factory nox dovetail on the top it lines up perfectly. Its not an option online but you can call them and they'll sell with only one arm for a little less $. I've read the knights bridge works as well but good luck finding one.

The d14 is very light despite the blocky appearance. I don't really see the point of the light weight version other than being cheaper.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

This is HIGHLY dependent on the person running it and how their vision/brain is wired. Some guys run it well, some not so much. This can be partially overcome, but it is not a one-size-fits-all approach.
The good news is if your brain doesn’t like it - mine did not - you can usually sell the thermal at no big loss.

 

[broskibrobro]

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System

Night Vision Helmet Mount Dual PVS-14 Light Weight Mounting System offers an adaptable system to be configured for dual tube technology.

www.modarmory.com

The nox is an inch + closer to my face than the 14, and the way it has to attach, causes it to be rotated and almost upside down.

I see, any idea if the D14 bridge has the same problem? It looks very similar to the one you linked, except for the addition of wilcox shoe sockets.

EDIT: disregard, just saw GreenMushroom's reply after posting.

Night Vision Helmet Mount IC D-14 Dual PVS-14 - MOD Armory

Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ offers an adaptable system that can be configured as single or dual.

www.modarmory.com

 

[newguy2k3v2]

For the pvs/thermal combo what I've found is that I can't merge the images in my head, at least not with them lining up.

White phosphor pvs makes it much easier.

I don't have a strong eye dominance so I can vary which one is the primary by controlling the brightness/gain.

 

[stefan73]

This is HIGHLY dependent on the person running it and how their vision/brain is wired. Some guys run it well, some not so much. This can be partially overcome, but it is not a one-size-fits-all approach.
The good news is if your brain doesn’t like it - mine did not - you can usually sell the thermal at no big loss.

Or just use the thermal as a scanner.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Or just use the thermal as a scanner.

Agreed. Or that.

 

[GreenMushroom]

This is HIGHLY dependent on the person running it and how their vision/brain is wired. Some guys run it well, some not so much. This can be partially overcome, but it is not a one-size-fits-all approach.
The good news is if your brain doesn’t like it - mine did not - you can usually sell the thermal at no big loss.

This can't be stressed enough and not only in regards to fusion. When people ask what the best setup is people often provide an answer as this is the one and only way and if you don't do it that way you're the poors, not an operator etc. What works is going to vary dramatically by individual, usage, and imo most of all your local terrain. The best setup for someone who lives in the desert is going to be quite different from someone who lives in the jungle.

 

[Rerun7]

It’s also not an all or nothing situation with running a dual system. The point is that both NV and thermal have strengths and weaknesses. Having both quickly accessible gives you a distinct advantage in just about every situation.

With the d14 just fold whichever one down is most effective given your situation. If your brain can handle both at the same time then rock on.

Which is also another benefit to the 640 res of the nox. From what I’ve seen so far the images look good enough that you can probably navigate with it alone on moderate terrain if the fusion thing doesn’t work out for you.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

It’s also not an all or nothing situation with running a dual system. The point is that both NV and thermal have strengths and weaknesses. Having both quickly accessible gives you a distinct advantage in just about every situation.

With the d14 just fold whichever one down is most effective given your situation. If your brain can handle both at the same time then rock on.

Which is also another benefit to the 640 res of the nox. From what I’ve seen so far the images look good enough that you can probably navigate with it alone on moderate terrain if the fusion thing doesn’t work out for you.

You can absolutely navigate with thermal. In some driving situations(no windshield) it's actually easier than with NV. In tall grass I can see paths, see the contour of the ground and see dry vs wet where with NV it all blends together.

 

[stefan73]

You can absolutely navigate with thermal. In some driving situations(no windshield) it's actually easier than with NV. In tall grass I can see paths, see the contour of the ground and see dry vs wet where with NV it all blends together.

Back in the old days when fielding the VVS2 systems for the Bradley Fighting vehicle we found that there was a significant time delay/lag in the image. So while driving what you see is a ditch about 200 yards out but it was really a ditch you just drove into. Really exciting stuff back then, might have caused some bruises and a few broken noses from the gunners.

They fixed them long since that issue was identified.

 

[earthquake]

Mod Armory d14. As your I'm sure aware at this point the threaded hole on the nox is not in the same place as a 14 in relation to the eyepiece. With the d14 mini arm and the factory nox dovetail on the top it lines up perfectly. Its not an option online but you can call them and they'll sell with only one arm for a little less $. I've read the knights bridge works as well but good luck finding one.

The d14 is very light despite the blocky appearance. I don't really see the point of the light weight version other than being cheaper.

Thanks. I'll probably just get another 14 for the helmet and keep the Nox on the gun. Though if I go that route, I wish I'da waited for the 35.

 

[GreenMushroom]

The nox its usable for navigation but struggles vrs a 14 on complex terrain. I have tried it out in various situations and it is a viable backup if your 14 goes down. I most often use it when something sets the dog off and I want to walk outside the throw of the yard lights just holding it up to my eye. I've found in this circumstance it works better to turn it sideways which shrinks the gap between your fov and your feet.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Yes it’s a shame @TheHorta is gone He would lay the smack down with his dual skeetirx lol

Yep, I miss TheHorta as well.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I missed something…where did he go?

 

[deersniper]

I missed something…where did he go?

Vicky Tnvc Harrassed Frank about Felipe to the point that Frank banned Vicky. Horta has bad judgement and is friends with Vicky and is now boycotting the hide.

So basically night vision man drama. I swear it’s the lack of sleep

 

[WhereNow&How]

I missed something…where did he go?

I believe a self imposed exile due to the banning of some others.

In some parts of the world, they say that is "making a political statement"

I hope he did not go on a hunger strike.

 

[deersniper]

So this site is losing UTCXIIs and they are being replaced by ATNs basically.

In other sections too.

 

[PlinkIt]

@Glassaholic if my memory serves you are fairly well versed in day scope comparisons of different levels so here is my redneck way to put it
(Beware... Opinion ahead)

Comparing breach to something like the skeet, patrol, or Nox...

Is about equivalent to...

Comparing Barska to... ZCO, S&B, or TT

They do similar stuff, but not in a similar way. Unless price and size are your PRIMARY concerns avoid the breech.