Night Vision FLIR Breach still the best for a helmet?

[PlinkIt]

Side note... I have been mia too long it seems like

When did I miss all this Felipe... Vicky... Horta... disaster... I don't even know who Vicky is / was

 

[WhereNow&How]

Unless price and size are your PRIMARY concerns avoid the breech.

Price and size are always important. At least that is what I tell her.

 

[GreenMushroom]

The breach is just for his head. He hasn't realized it yet but he's getting a nox35 for his rifle.

And in relation to the fusion discussion early a combo i only tried briefly but want to revisit is black hot on the nox with the coti on. Only screwed around with it for a few minutes in the yard but it made me go hmmmm

 

[WhereNow&How]

Fusion is possible with a Breach and PVS 14 but is a "sketchy" fusion at best.

Point being, when you get tired or are in an amped up situation, the ability to fuse the two images quickly disappears.

Doable while hog or predator hunting, but definitely not a 2 way range setup at all. COTI and dual NV more better for 2 way.

 

[GreenMushroom]

This is something to consider as well. What works when you're larping doesn't always work under pressure.

As an example I was out with my brother and we got among so elk in very thick brush. They started calling to each other which sounds like a methhead doing a bad impression of an owl. They aren't usually aggressive but are large animals and I wouldn't want to spook one in close quarters.

I was running a 14 with no coti, nox on a neck lanyard and laser on my rifle. I was walking along with the nox held up to my eye when one called quite close. My 1st instinct was to put 2 hands on my rifle which required letting the nox hang on its lanyard. I had now lost the use of my only detection device. I then turned on the tlr2 eyesafe on my rifle which was set to laser and illuminator which promptly blinded me from the glare off the brush all around me.

Nothing came of it and we never actually saw any elk but it was eye opening for me to see how little stress it took to turn me into a total fumblefuck. I need to practice this sort of thing so it becomes automatic what to do in a given situation. The point of all this is all the fancy gear in the world won't help you if you don't train at least somewhat realistically.

 

[Glassaholic]

@Glassaholic if my memory serves you are fairly well versed in day scope comparisons of different levels so here is my redneck way to put it
(Beware... Opinion ahead)

Comparing breach to something like the skeet, patrol, or Nox...

Is about equivalent to...

Comparing Barska to... ZCO, S&B, or TT

They do similar stuff, but not in a similar way. Unless price and size are your PRIMARY concerns avoid the breech.

Oh no, don’t tell me that, Barska’s break right out of the gate and made from Chinese dog fodder. I was hoping for more of a Bushnell LRHS compared to ZCO type of situation.

well since this is my first foray into NV I didn’t want to get too aggressive but didn’t want Chinese junk either.

I feel I have a good handle on the downsides of the Breach but it gives me a good place to start and figure if I hate it I can sell it without losing too much (something I’m used to with daytime glass)

 

[PlinkIt]

Oh no, don’t tell me that, Barska’s break right out of the gate and made from Chinese dog fodder. I was hoping for more of a Bushnell LRHS compared to ZCO type of situation.

well since this is my first foray into NV I didn’t want to get too aggressive but didn’t want Chinese junk either.

I feel I have a good handle on the downsides of the Breach but it gives me a good place to start and figure if I hate it I can sell it without losing too much (something I’m used to with daytime glass)

I'm being too harsh is saying Barska (and prolly should say Bushnell) because both of my examples did turn on and work, but when I managed to get a patrol and start comparing them side by side... I couldn't help but laugh at the breach and think I should have just saved up for the patrol in the first place.

Now on size and price the breach is much better. Some guys would rather have two breach units than one patrol... Because 2 turns to 1 and 1 turns to none in battle... Or something like that

But after owning one and deciding the patrol curb stomped it I sold the breach and had no regret. Then I listened to people talk up it's ability (if you had it set right)... So I figured ok I must have been an idiot and never got it set up properly... I buy a second one... I spend two months doing nothing but testing them side by side most nights across my little cutover...
I still own the more expensive, heavier, larger patrol and I once again have no breach

I acknowledge there are benefits and reasons to choose a breach over the other units... I openly express my OPINION that those benefits are not enough though

Good luck either way

 

[WhereNow&How]

I ran a Patrol 300 and the Breach and decided the Breach was the better cost/ performance benefit ratio device for the role I wanted to fill.

People have different roles and expectations to meet from their devices. The Breach is an excellent investment for the price and performs pretty good if it fits the role you need filled IMHO.

I carry a smorgasbord of " relatively simple & cheap" devices that allow me to detect and PID critters at very long distances. Each has its role to perform but the bigger picture is how they seamlessly integrate together to form a very capable total system for as low a cost as possible.

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ Appreciate the input Plink and WhereNow. Similar to a lot of daytimes scopes you just don't know until you try. For many years now my attitude has been, "I'll give it a try and if I don't like it I'll sell it".

 

[GreenMushroom]

Thanks. I'll probably just get another 14 for the helmet and keep the Nox on the gun. Though if I go that route, I wish I'da waited for the 35.

My recommendation would be to get a coti instead. I normally run a pvs14/coti on my left eye and nox18 on my right eye/lanyard/rifle. With a relatively short lanyard you can have it plugged into a battery in the back of your helmet while slung around your neck. You can snap it up into your bridge with lanyard and power cord still attached. I also have the battery extension and large battery installed and a carabiner attaching to the lanyard so its easy to unclip and put on my rifle.

The coti is great because no matter what fancy ninja stuff your trying to do with your nox you always have thermal on your head. Imo if you want to maintain the rifle capacity of the nox (bottom mount, extension and battery) it is too heavy for multi hour use. I'm probably in the minority but I think a second 14 is a waste of $ and weight as well as an eye. I can run duel 14s whenever my wife isn't using hers but I never do.

 

[Glassaholic]

My recommendation would be to get a coti instead. I normally run a pvs14/coti on my left eye and nox18 on my right eye/lanyard/rifle. With a relatively short lanyard you can have it plugged into a battery in the back of your helmet while slung around your neck. You can snap it up into your bridge with lanyard and power cord still attached. I also have the battery extension and large battery installed and a carabiner attaching to the lanyard so its easy to unclip and put on my rifle.

The coti is great because no matter what fancy ninja stuff your trying to do with your nox you always have thermal on your head. Imo if you want to maintain the rifle capacity of the nox (bottom mount, extension and battery) it is too heavy for multi hour use. I'm probably in the minority but I think a second 14 is a waste of $ and weight as well as an eye. I can run duel 14s whenever my wife isn't using hers but I never do.

That's an interesting point with the COTI, I've been pondering grabbing one. So with the 320 core of the COTI used with your 14 and the 640 core of the NOX, any issues there?

 

[PlinkIt]

People have different roles and expectations to meet from their devices.

I think this is the golden idea to keep in mind here

I have some specific experiences that the breach just would not cut it for my circumstances

On the other hand there are situations I'd say the breach could be preferable in every way though.... But because the breach won't do what I expect in some cases I vote for the bigger, heavier, pricier, etc...

If you plan to use laser to shoot with... both of them suck compared to the coti it seems though...

 

[GreenMushroom]

That's an interesting point with the COTI, I've been pondering grabbing one. So with the 320 core of the COTI used with your 14 and the 640 core of the NOX, any issues there?

I doesn't really work in a way that there could be issues. I use the coti 95% in outline mode so the resolution isn't really relevant. In any case when I snap the nox into my bridge I almost always turn the coti off. When out larping I usually have the nox around my neck and the coti turned on. This is lightweight and comfortable for longer hikes. If I get a blip on the coti I stop and bring the nox up to my eye to to have a better look.

It would function the same with the nox on a rifle. Think of the coti as more of an early warning sensor than a full thermal. The downside of the coti is it doesn't have the ability to burn through brush like the nox and I'm assuming breach so I usually pop the nox up to my eye occasionally even if I'm not getting anything on the coti. We haven't gotten a 2nd nox yet so usually its me with a 14/coti in front and my wife behind with a 14 and the nox on a lanyard. I get a blip and we stop so she can scope it out.

We're leaning towards a 35 for the 2nd one. So it would be me in front with 14/coti/18 and her behind with 14 with slip on 3x magnifier and 35 with a video recorder. Keep in mind I'm not trying to give any tactical advice here as our goal is taking pics and video of wildlife.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I don't recall if it was mentioned, but keep in mind there is a delay in image processing with thermal that does not occur with NV, and some brains handle that better than others.

Getting the color palette to sync for me wasn't an issue (running 14+Breach), it was the image processing delay that gave me headaches.

And agreed, it comes down to mission and expectations - and right gear to satisfy both.

 

[Glassaholic]

I doesn't really work in a way that there could be issues. I use the coti 95% in outline mode so the resolution isn't really relevant.

So the way you use the system, the 320 COTI vs a 640 ECOTI probably wouldn't make a difference?

 

[SkyScrapin]

So the way you use the system, the 320 COTI vs a 640 ECOTI probably wouldn't make a difference?

the Ecoti gives you a sharper outline and less clutter in your FOV. Patrol mode is also cleaner on the Ecoti, and it’s more usable to me than what the COTI offers. The Ecoti being significantly more than the COTI makes it less desirable since you’re not getting significantly better performance.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Functionality wise I don't think the higher resolution would make much difference to me. I think the ecoti also has a faster refresh rate and that seems like that would be a bigger deal to me. The battery situation seems to be a cluster fuck on both so thats a wash. Long story short the coti gets the job done and is way cheaper. Its not perfect out of the box though. The factory settings are shit and you'll have to do a deep dive into the menus to tune it for your environment but your a technical guy so I'm sure you can sort it.

 

[upSLIDEdown]

Nox, no question.

 

[Glassaholic]

Nox, no question.

Thermal art work, I love it

 

[GreenMushroom]

I'm really happy with my nox. For the price I was expecting a lot and it exceeds those expectations. I try not to be too much of a fan boy because I don't have anything except the coti to compare it to but we are sold enough we will be getting a second without seriously considering alternatives.

The nox is ready to go out of the box. We put batteries in it and stated using it and haven't made any adjustments other than flip caps. This has been great since getting everything else sorted has been so time consuming. I'll eventually dig into the menus and play with the settings but for now it works great as is.

On that note if you are getting a breach I've read that it's like the coti in that you'll want to adjust the settings for your environment and the factory settings aren't that great. Some of the hunters on here have been using these older devices for years and really know how to tune them.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Nice kitty.....

 

[upSLIDEdown]

For a helmet, I honestly think the Nox18 is perfect. Easy to navigate with. Pairs well with a WP 14 on a bridge. Would I like a little more base mag? Sometimes. Other times, it's perfect. The ability to weapon mount it if ever needed is awesome. I haven't done it yet. But I have a 11.5" it would be awesome on if I ever need to.

 

[Geeb]

They're still selling the breach as far as I know. They stopped selling weapon sights

Gotcha, I just know what Flir told a buddy whom has been trying to get a scope repaired for almost a year. He had to buy a new scope as Flir told him he was s.o.l. on getting any repair work.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Perfect world, running a 14 with COTI or Ecoti and a bridged Nox18 give you all the possibilities. Some will struggle to make it work and the solution is to flip one up while using the other, but leaving both 100% accessible.

The breach also does a great job with a slight performance and image quality penalty. It also requires separate mount hardware, but it works. You will need additional tools to PID at range, but you will definitely see there’s a warm object at a pretty good distance.

 

[stefan73]

Perfect world, running a 14 with COTI or Ecoti and a bridged Nox18 give you all the possibilities. Some will struggle to make it work and the solution is to flip one up while using the other, but leaving both 100% accessible.

The breach also does a great job with a slight performance and image quality penalty. It also requires separate mount hardware, but it works. You will need additional tools to PID at range, but you will definitely see there’s a warm object at a pretty good distance.

I have been peddling the idea of a Breach for one of my kids (because one likes to go outside hunting with me).

 

[SkyScrapin]

I have been peddling the idea of a Breach for one of my kids (because one likes to go outside hunting with me).

You’ve got the perfect excuse to buy more gear and pass the knowledge on! Do it!