Floated barrel? I Believe!!!

[Kid_Lefty]

DISCLAIMER... I'm a newby. I'm not a gunsmith and I make mistakes frequently. Also, I believe in luck. You'll see why in my latest 50yd group. LOL.

I have a Ruger 10/22 Carbine, SN dates it a 2011 model. When it was given to me, it came with a Bushnell 1.75-4x32 scope and 500 rounds of CCI MiniMag CPHP 36gr 1260fps. A couple weeks ago I stumbled across the Rimfire 6 groups of 5 challenge. I put some targets together and participated. I thought I did ok until I saw the scoreboard... LOL. my best group was 0.960". Not exactly awesome. But I received a lot of terrific feedback and over the past few days I have been picking that text apart and researching what was mentioned (specifically "free floating" and "bedding").

I decided to lock down the rear of the receiver and free float the barrel. I would post pictures but I'm only allowed 1mb and I'm using all that up to post my results(can I get more space?). Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised at my results! 86 degrees 71% humidity, 20:00 CDT, no wind.

Well, crap. I can't figure out how to get rid of my old pictures so I can post my last results... I had shot 40 rounds while dialing in the scope. Then I set up a fresh paper with 6 targets, 5 shots in each. Here's my measurements in order.

0.632"
1.035"
0.256"(See... Luck!!!)
1.235"
0.711"
1.069"

Before my work, I only had two groups at 1" and now I had five at 1" or smaller. I know that it's nowhere near the top of the leaderboard but it's an improvement! Notice how the first five of the mag are tighter than the second five? Also, the barrel was hot to touch when finished. Could the magazine actually cause larger groups or do you think the barrel is getting hot and the time it takes me to reload is enough time to cool? I would really like to post some photos so I'll look around and see if I can find out how to get rid of my first two photos and post slightly smaller ones. Any words of wisdom/criticism is accepted!

EDIT-

Here's the photos of floating the barrel... I'll fit the aluminum better and get it painted.: 10/22 floated barrel

And here's the final six groups: six groups of five

-Kid

 

[Redmanss]

For a factory barrel, trigger and Mini Mags, that's good work! Realize that's still floating around 2moa, which is expected from that setup. Even the best of 10/22s are marginally sub moa across that many shots, and you're pretty much stock.

As for the change in group sizes, well I'm taking it from a marksmanship standpoint and thinking you may not be getting proper natural point of aim when you shift targets, thereby throwing your shots more sporadic. Each target requires a full cycle of position building.

As for the image sizing, well I think that's a feature of the board for new users. Post more valuable posts, hit "Full Member" level, and that will increase. You can always host your pictures externally and link to them here.

 

[Kid_Lefty]

As for the change in group sizes, well I'm taking it from a marksmanship standpoint and thinking you may not be getting proper natural point of aim when you shift targets, thereby throwing your shots more sporadic. Each target requires a full cycle of position building.

As for the image sizing, well I think that's a feature of the board for new users. Post more valuable posts, hit "Full Member" level, and that will increase. You can always host your pictures externally and link to them here.

Thank you for your input! I'll keep researching proper technique/form and work on developing a routine. I plan on finding some Eley/Wolf/Federal Match ammo as well as a larger scope and running this test again.

Is there a host that you have used before without incident?

-Kid

 

[Redmanss]

I personally use Flickr, there's many others as well. Also, I highly recommend the Sniper's Hide Training videos until you can get formal training: Sniper's Hide » Accessing Training

 

[Kid_Lefty]

I personally use Flickr, there's many others as well. Also, I highly recommend the Sniper's Hide Training videos until you can get formal training: Sniper's Hide » Accessing Training

Gotcha. I searched "image hosting" and found Photo Bucket. I guess I never realized that it would be free... nothing's free! I'll add the links to my original post. And I'll look into the Hide's training.

-Kid

 

[JG26_Irish]

Accuracy & Precision

KL - Shooting well is a process of managing your variables. Anything that might affect either the aim of the rifle or the flight of the bullet will have a impact on the results down range at the tgt. As the shooter, the more you can shrink and reduce the variation in those factors, the better your results will become. You said in an earlier post that you like math and data. Use that to your advantage and keep records of your range sessions. Some of the big variables are things like:

Ammo variance - good quality ammo will reduce this. Ammo that has proven to shoot best in your rifle will be about as good as it gets with a 22lr. Testing, ammo at the range and logging the groups sizes and averages over several groups will give you stats to help choose the best ammo.

Shooting rest and position - Make certain your shooting position and how you rest or hold the gun is as stable as you can make it. Shooting from a shakey bench for example will defeat the purpose.

Precise aiming of the weapon - This can only be done well with good quality sights. The better the sight picture the better you will be able to aim at the same point consistently, over and over. Example: With a 3x scope, a 1" target dot will look small and precise as a point of aim from 50yds. But when the goal is to consistently shoot 1/4" groups a 1" target is grossly oversized and smaller targets are likely going to be harder to see, thus it will matter little how good the ammo and rifle are, if you cannot precisely see the tgt and aim at the EXACT same point every time. So, as myself and others have suggested, at some point you will want a better, more powerful scope if you hope to hit those 0.250" groups consistently. I don't know how many times I have seen a guy post his 6x5 tgt and it was six 3/4" black tgt pasters or worse, six hand drawn black spots with a magic marker. It tells me that he failed to give himself a consistently precise target to start with and thus gave up some accuracy before the first shot was fired. Without a good scope of 18-24x or higher, the little tiny tgts are impossible to see well enough to aim at. It becomes catch 22. It does not mean that guys cannot on occasion shoot a 1/4" group with iron sights or 3x scopes, but they become more like random events instead of expected performance. Go back to what you want to do and remember that a 36x fixed power scope is great for shooting tgts at the range from prone or a bench but is a POS for about anything else. You have to decide what is most important. Precision or utility in this case? You can have a little of both or optimize one at the cost of the other. Take a look at the 30rd dot shoot target that Justin Amateur posted a few weeks/months back. It is 30 targets each about 1/4" in diameter with a smaller dot in the center that is about 1/10th inch. Great for precise aiming. Good for learning to shoot in the wind also. Impossible to shoot with low power scopes or irons.

Shooting technique - I am lumping a lot of variables into one subject here. Hold, grip, position, breathing, cheek weld, trigger pull, rifle rest, use of sling (or not) all fall into this catch all. You can minimize some variables or eliminate others.

Wind - A enemy of 22lr precision. Steady wind can be OK, variable winds are tricky, but to get to the tiny little groups, no wind is best. I have found that sunrise is the best time to see no wind where I live. Your locale may vary. This is why factory ammo test ranges are nearly always indoors. It eliminates this variable.

These are just a few of the variables that will impact your shooting. Manage these well and you will be on your way. As you do manage the big ones like this well, the other smaller variables will become more important. Things like trigger creep, weight and muzzle vibrations are not as noticeable when the other larger ones dominate the results. Remember too that a 2oz trigger that works so well at the benchrest match is unsuitable for hunting or field use and may even be unsafe in those environments. Never compromise safety for performance in areas such as that. It is not worth it. You cannot even see the affects of muzzle vibrations until you have mastered all of the bigger variables. The noise (variance in the data) from them will mask the vibrations affects. Nearly all benchrest rimfire shooters employ muzzle tuners. But why don't hunters also use them? They add about 1lb to the rifle and when shooting off hand or even from make shift rests, the variance in the shooting position completely overshadows the small value the tuner adds.

Be systematic and work to minimize every variable and soon you will be shooting bug holes and loving it.

Irish

 

[Kid_Lefty]

KL - Shooting well is a process of managing your variables. Anything that might affect either the aim of the rifle or the flight of the bullet will have a impact on the results down range at the tgt. As the shooter, the more you can shrink and reduce the variation in those factors, the better your results will become. You said in an earlier post that you like math and data. Use that to your advantage and keep records of your range sessions. Some of the big variables are things like:

Ammo variance - good quality ammo will reduce this. Ammo that has proven to shoot best in your rifle will be about as good as it gets with a 22lr. Testing, ammo at the range and logging the groups sizes and averages over several groups will give you stats to help choose the best ammo.

Shooting rest and position - Make certain your shooting position and how you rest or hold the gun is as stable as you can make it. Shooting from a shakey bench for example will defeat the purpose.

Precise aiming of the weapon - This can only be done well with good quality sights. The better the sight picture the better you will be able to aim at the same point consistently, over and over. Example: With a 3x scope, a 1" target dot will look small and precise as a point of aim from 50yds. But when the goal is to consistently shoot 1/4" groups a 1" target is grossly oversized and smaller targets are likely going to be harder to see, thus it will matter little how good the ammo and rifle are, if you cannot precisely see the tgt and aim at the EXACT same point every time. So, as myself and others have suggested, at some point you will want a better, more powerful scope if you hope to hit those 0.250" groups consistently. I don't know how many times I have seen a guy post his 6x5 tgt and it was six 3/4" black tgt pasters or worse, six hand drawn black spots with a magic marker. It tells me that he failed to give himself a consistently precise target to start with and thus gave up some accuracy before the first shot was fired. Without a good scope of 18-24x or higher, the little tiny tgts are impossible to see well enough to aim at. It becomes catch 22. It does not mean that guys cannot on occasion shoot a 1/4" group with iron sights or 3x scopes, but they become more like random events instead of expected performance. Go back to what you want to do and remember that a 36x fixed power scope is great for shooting tgts at the range from prone or a bench but is a POS for about anything else. You have to decide what is most important. Precision or utility in this case? You can have a little of both or optimize one at the cost of the other. Take a look at the 30rd dot shoot target that Justin Amateur posted a few weeks/months back. It is 30 targets each about 1/4" in diameter with a smaller dot in the center that is about 1/10th inch. Great for precise aiming. Good for learning to shoot in the wind also. Impossible to shoot with low power scopes or irons.

Shooting technique - I am lumping a lot of variables into one subject here. Hold, grip, position, breathing, cheek weld, trigger pull, rifle rest, use of sling (or not) all fall into this catch all. You can minimize some variables or eliminate others.

Wind - A enemy of 22lr precision. Steady wind can be OK, variable winds are tricky, but to get to the tiny little groups, no wind is best. I have found that sunrise is the best time to see no wind where I live. Your locale may vary. This is why factory ammo test ranges are nearly always indoors. It eliminates this variable.

These are just a few of the variables that will impact your shooting. Manage these well and you will be on your way. As you do manage the big ones like this well, the other smaller variables will become more important. Things like trigger creep, weight and muzzle vibrations are not as noticeable when the other larger ones dominate the results. Remember too that a 2oz trigger that works so well at the benchrest match is unsuitable for hunting or field use and may even be unsafe in those environments. Never compromise safety for performance in areas such as that. It is not worth it. You cannot even see the affects of muzzle vibrations until you have mastered all of the bigger variables. The noise (variance in the data) from them will mask the vibrations affects. Nearly all benchrest rimfire shooters employ muzzle tuners. But why don't hunters also use them? They add about 1lb to the rifle and when shooting off hand or even from make shift rests, the variance in the shooting position completely overshadows the small value the tuner adds.

Be systematic and work to minimize every variable and soon you will be shooting bug holes and loving it.

Irish

Thanks, Irish. I will be making some adjustments to my targets to give a finer point of aim. Last night, i noticed my heartbeat in my sight... I guess I shouldn't run back and forth between the target and the gun! LOL. I'll keep researching and learning... I'll check out Justin's target and keep working on the basics. October can't come soon enough!

 

[JG26_Irish]

Thanks, Irish. I will be making some adjustments to my targets to give a finer point of aim. Last night, i noticed my heartbeat in my sight... I guess I shouldn't run back and forth between the target and the gun! LOL. I'll keep researching and learning... I'll check out Justin's target and keep working on the basics. October can't come soon enough!

FYI - The scopes on both my two scoped 22's are powerful enough and clear enough to allow me to see my hits on the tgt out to 200yds without any effort. That or a decent spotting scope are both good ways to help keep your heart rate closer to normal. I will also often use a USBR tgt to practice on or to do the 6x5 on. It has 25 Bulls and 3 sighter bulls on it. If you are testing ammo or shooting 5 sh per bull that is 140 rds before you have to go down range to replace a tgt. Usually by then I am ready to quit anyway. I usually shoot at a pace of about one round every 30 seconds. I try to tune out all outside distractions and noise and focus only on what I am doing. That is not always possible if the bench beside me has a guy testing AKM machineguns or 338 Lapua rifles, but that is just another one of those variables. When an AR15 fires next to my bench, I can see the shockwave from the muzzle blast in my scope moving the rifle. On humid days you can see the bullet flying down range to the tgt leaving a little shockwave trail in the air as it arcs to the tgt. This is not to mean that you have to spend tons of money to get adequate. One of those scopes is a 6-24x mil-dot that cost me $65. It is not perfect and the turrets are not as good as a $2000 scope and it lacks a life time warranty, but it is adequate for what I use it for. My other scope cost almost as much as the gun. It is better, but the difference is small. One shoots in the 3-4's and the other shoots in the 2-3's or maybe slightly better on a perfect day. I think the scope is the variable that attributes the most to that difference.

The USBR (ARA and IR50/50 tgts are good also) is better than Justins tgt for shooting groups since it has enough meat around the bull that you can still aim well after 3-4 shots. Justins tgt is so small that one center x hit obliterates the whole bull. Plus they are so close together, that until you are routinely shooting in the 2's or 3's with your rig you could aim at one bull and hit the one beside it. Check it out and you will see what I mean. I think there is a thread titled "So you think you can shoot?" that Jbell started that has it in it.

Irish

 

[Kid_Lefty]

...This is not to mean that you have to spend tons of money to get adequate. One of those scopes is a 6-24x mil-dot that cost me $65.

Irish

I have been researching scopes for the last three months... Trying to find something that balances reputation and price. The scope I have settled on (for now) is the Sightron SII 6-24x42 mil-dot. I've read a lot of good things about the glass and it's in a much more comfortable price range($420 shipped) for my first scope purchase.