Hi everyone, I was wondering if the membership here had any experience with the OSS flow through suppressors? I've just begun to look into the world of NFA and suppressors seemed an easy first step. That said I know very little about them. I first got interested in these from the perspective of suppressing my AR's since OSS claims no back pressure and no additional modifications required for smooth function. With a bolt gun though, I'm curious if there is any point to the flow through vs. baffle cans. How are they for noise reduction versus a regular baffle can? Any downsides? Any experience yall can share would be appreciated.
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Suppressors Flow Through Suppressors?
- Thread starter AManWearingAHat
- Start date
The consensus around here is... useless junk that doesn't do a very good job quieting anything down !
You may want to modify that to say "the consensus of everybody who doesn't own one and has never used one". The consensus I see from everybody who has tried one or owns one is very different from your statement.
I've got a helix 556 and 762 helix ti. The 556 is rather quiet on my 16" XCR-L and definitely tolerable on my 12" Piston AR15. The 762 ti is decent on my AR but not so much on my scar 20s. I blame the rifle as it was about the same as my tbac ultra 7 on that rifle. I really like them on semi's but I have a couple tbac dominus's that I think may beat them when they get out of jail. I would use the standard on short barrels due to weight and probably skip the titanium due to price and spend that kind of $$ on a tbac dominus.
If you are running a semi auto and don't have an adjustable gas block, the OSS suppressors are a very useful option.
They are a tiny bit louder, but again that's a very subjective thing to measure and getting any actual tests between manufacturers, done with high end test equipment in the exact same controlled conditions is kind of hard to come by.
Especially as TBAC showed in one of their videos, that the bolt / action slamming back and forth is actually much louder than many would guess.
For a F/A gas gun, they would be worth taking a look at.
They are a tiny bit louder, but again that's a very subjective thing to measure and getting any actual tests between manufacturers, done with high end test equipment in the exact same controlled conditions is kind of hard to come by.
Especially as TBAC showed in one of their videos, that the bolt / action slamming back and forth is actually much louder than many would guess.
For a F/A gas gun, they would be worth taking a look at.
So the trade off is out of the box reliability for a little extra weight and noise in a gas gun. On a bolt gun a traditional baffle can would probably be quieter?
The benefits of an OSS can aren’t as qualifiable on a bolt gun. I own several OSS and a lot of other baffle cans. In a perfect world where you can afford and own multiple cans I would say on bolt guns the preference would be a well constructed baffle can like TBAC. Although I have done no accuracy testing with the OSS cans on my bolt guns because I already own TBAC cans for my precision rigs. On almost any semi auto platform, in my opinion they are the best option in almost all situations. While perceived louder by some, I would argue and say that to the shooters ear, in most situations they are not really louder, the tone is different. They project sound outward. So maybe downrange they seem louder, but as the shooter or as an observer standing behind the shooter I would say there is little perceivable difference in “loudness”. Will they be super quiet on SBR builds? Most times no, but neither will any traditional baffle can. If a gun is “hearing safe” with a traditional baffle can, say a standard 16”AR 5.56, they it will most definitely be hearing safe with the OSS can but with all the additional benefits of their design. No need for additional tuning, minimal gas blowback even in full auto, gun will run much cleaner, gun won’t take as much wear and tear BC of over pressure, reverse thread design of the QD mount is genius, can doesn’t get as hot as baffle design, etc. I am a fan because I have experience. If the system design doesn’t suppress well period, like an 8” 5.56 for example, an OSS can can’t change what is inherently a difficult design to suppress. I would try to ignore people claiming “the general consensus” and pay attention to the anecdotal feedback and reviews on YouTube and form your own opinion. I own 6 OSS cans and wouldn’t trade them. As someone already mentioned, Frank speaks highly of them and runs them on bolt guns with high satisfaction regarding suppression and accuracy but hey what does he know.
My OSS HX-QD 762 Ti has No Blow Back on my M14, RPK and my Colt M16.
My OSS HX-QD 762 (mine's not the TI) goes on my range toys, and is excellent in that role. My Nomad-L goes on my bolt and adjustable gas hunting rifles. I do sometimes indulge in a mag-dump with the OSS, and sometimes in chasing the "subsonic quietude game" with my Nomad-L.
"To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heavens."
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Technical consensus supported by data is:
1. OSS cans are louder at the muzzle than baffle cans of a similar size. This means on bolt guns they are at a large disadvantage.
2. OSS cans are not quieter at the ear on an AR15 which as a good adjustable gas block. If you are running an AR15, just get a Superlative Arms block instead.
3. OSS cans are quieter at the ear and have much less blowback on hosts which are not suppressor friendly like: AKs, Tavors, Augs, M14s, etc. This includes ARs which have no adjustable gas block (especially the shorter ones). The only reason to buy an OSS is if you plan to use it on one or more of these kinds of hosts. Otherwise you are better served by a traditional baffle can.
4. All OSS cans need to be cleaned every 1-2k rounds or performance degrades, unlike most rifle cans.
5. All OSS cans except the most recent updates which have the added "flash hider" on the end exhibit significantly more flash than many baffle cans.
6. By and large the OSS cans are longer and heavier than similar cans of their respective classes, and are limited to only using the OSS QD mounts.
Finally it is important to note that OSS isn't the only "flow through" game in town. NexGen Maxflo is out, Sig and KAC have "flow through" style cans coming out early next year (supposedly). The CGS Helios QD can be switched to "flow through" by changing end caps and is a much better buy than an OSS can unless you want something smaller and lighter than the Helios (which CGS doesn't offer yet). I have a current gen OSS 7.62 can for a Tavor and it works great for that. If I didn't have the Tavor, I wouldn't have the OSS.
1. OSS cans are louder at the muzzle than baffle cans of a similar size. This means on bolt guns they are at a large disadvantage.
2. OSS cans are not quieter at the ear on an AR15 which as a good adjustable gas block. If you are running an AR15, just get a Superlative Arms block instead.
3. OSS cans are quieter at the ear and have much less blowback on hosts which are not suppressor friendly like: AKs, Tavors, Augs, M14s, etc. This includes ARs which have no adjustable gas block (especially the shorter ones). The only reason to buy an OSS is if you plan to use it on one or more of these kinds of hosts. Otherwise you are better served by a traditional baffle can.
4. All OSS cans need to be cleaned every 1-2k rounds or performance degrades, unlike most rifle cans.
5. All OSS cans except the most recent updates which have the added "flash hider" on the end exhibit significantly more flash than many baffle cans.
6. By and large the OSS cans are longer and heavier than similar cans of their respective classes, and are limited to only using the OSS QD mounts.
Finally it is important to note that OSS isn't the only "flow through" game in town. NexGen Maxflo is out, Sig and KAC have "flow through" style cans coming out early next year (supposedly). The CGS Helios QD can be switched to "flow through" by changing end caps and is a much better buy than an OSS can unless you want something smaller and lighter than the Helios (which CGS doesn't offer yet). I have a current gen OSS 7.62 can for a Tavor and it works great for that. If I didn't have the Tavor, I wouldn't have the OSS.
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The Helios QD is also modular at both ends with tapered shoulders and is compatible with 1.375x24 thread pattern QD mounts. With the YHM Kurz kit you don't need to use the CGS QD Adapter that comes in the Helios QD kit. The Kurz kit makes the silencer assembly ~7.0" long from the YHM QD mount to the front cap hex flash hider feature, which is actually a bit shorter than the default direct thread configuration. Also the front caps can be swapped out for different vented caps in the future which will change the flow rate and further increase flash hiding capability making both of those things tunable by the end user. The ones included in the Helios QD kit are one extreme (solid) or the other (full vent). It's also internally coated with Boron Nitride/DCD which prevents copper, carbon, lead, etc fouling from sticking in the first place. The Helios QD is made of 718 Inconel and outlasts any OSS silencer that I know of in destructive testing with either the solid and vented front cap installed in the Helios QD. The direct thread mounts can act as standalone linear compensator/blast deflectors with built in flash hiders.
There's no way I'd use a "flow through" silencer on a bolt gun with other options available. It'd just be loud for no good reason.
There's no way I'd use a "flow through" silencer on a bolt gun with other options available. It'd just be loud for no good reason.
While I don't own an OSS, one of the things to me that is attractive is that supposedly you are much less prone to being choked out by gas. I don't shoot rapid fire very much, but on 10.5" 5.56 AR it can gas you out in no time. If it's not very windy or if you are shooting indoors it becomes a thing. It won't be as quiet but on a 5.56 you will need ear pro no matter what regardless of brand of suppressor with that caliber in an AR. It's hard to shoot when your eyes are watering and you are choking on gas.
Also I think if you are shooting a 10/22 it might be useful as well. Lately I have been shooting a lot of 10/22 and the gun can get extremely dirty requiring a full breakdown of the gun fairly frequently. I would think the OSS version (in theory) might allow you to go farther in between cleanings. The 22 version also performs sound wise about the same as most other cans. I only talk about cleaning because I got to the point to where my 10/22 was malfunctioning because of so much carbon being built up.
Basically there are a number of places where a flow through can would work great. It just depends on the host and situation. Again though, I don't own one but I haven't thrown out the idea entirely of getting one.
Also I think if you are shooting a 10/22 it might be useful as well. Lately I have been shooting a lot of 10/22 and the gun can get extremely dirty requiring a full breakdown of the gun fairly frequently. I would think the OSS version (in theory) might allow you to go farther in between cleanings. The 22 version also performs sound wise about the same as most other cans. I only talk about cleaning because I got to the point to where my 10/22 was malfunctioning because of so much carbon being built up.
Basically there are a number of places where a flow through can would work great. It just depends on the host and situation. Again though, I don't own one but I haven't thrown out the idea entirely of getting one.
alamo5000 yes but on a 10.5in AR you can just pop on a Superlative Arms gas block and a gas busting charging handle and you are 90%+ of the way to an OSS but with none of the downsides and all of the upsides of using a more traditional design modern can.
Their 22 can is interesting for sure though.
Their 22 can is interesting for sure though.
I have an adjustable gas block and a gas busting charging handle.
If you are shooting a few rounds it's fine. If you are shooting more then there is still lots of gas in the face. Particularly if you are shooting on a very still day with no wind or are shooting indoors none of the things you mentioned matter hardly at all.
Gas blocks tune how much pressure basically goes back to actuate the bolt carrier group. They do nothing about the gas coming back down the barrel.
Likewise a gas busting charging handle tries to redirect gas away from your face. An AR15 is far from air tight so gas and carbon and whatever else comes back down the barrel and goes all through the magazine and the rest of the upper escaping wherever it can.
When you shoot heavy strings of fire on a no wind day you basically create a cloud of gas around yourself that makes you cough and eyes water.
A gas block, regardless of the brand or type, and the charging handle again regardless of the brand basically get overwhelmed.
The gas is coming back down the barrel. However at least in theory the design of the OSS keeps the majority of the gas moving forward towards the muzzle.
Likewise a gas busting charging handle tries to redirect gas away from your face. An AR15 is far from air tight so gas and carbon and whatever else comes back down the barrel and goes all through the magazine and the rest of the upper escaping wherever it can.
When you shoot heavy strings of fire on a no wind day you basically create a cloud of gas around yourself that makes you cough and eyes water.
A gas block, regardless of the brand or type, and the charging handle again regardless of the brand basically get overwhelmed.
The gas is coming back down the barrel. However at least in theory the design of the OSS keeps the majority of the gas moving forward towards the muzzle.
This is wrong in two ways:
1. A Superlative Arms gas block allows you to delay the unlock of your bolt by reducing the amount of gas coming back down the tube and the pressure of said gas. So it gives far more time (relatively speaking) for the gas to escape out the front of the barrel/suppressor, and for pressure in the barrel/chamber to get closer to normal. So it does in fact SIGNIFICANTLY reduce blowback.
This is why it does most of what the OSS does.
2. Specifically with the bleed off function, you are actually also decreasing pressure in the barrel as evidenced by the lower FPS numbers you will get if you use it (not a huge difference, but measurable and repeatable). So you are actually also reducing pressure in the barrel itself.
Restrictive gas blocks don't help as much buy they do help some.
As for charging handles, this is also incorrect. A well designed one is night and day over milspec, which again if you've compared a lot of them becomes very obvious. I agree that if you take an untuned 10.3in and stick a new charging handle on there, it won't make much of a difference. But used in conjunction with other mitigate-rs (like a suppressed gas port sized barrel and/or adjustable gas block) they work wonders like they do on longer systems.
I stand by my statement. That isn't to say suppressor design and back pressure doesn't matter: it does for a number of reasons and some are still worse than others. But that 90% figure is for good modern cans like a Dead Air. Even my Omega on an 11.5in doesn't gas me out when configured like this mag dumping. And keep in mind, even an unsuppressed rifle mag dumping will create a cloud of gas you breath in.
Your personal obvservations aside, the part of your statement I quoted (which I assume is the one you are "standing by") about what a gas block does and doesn't do is just factually incorrect. I might not be the most "gas sensitive" person in the world but I do notice it pretty well.
x2devgroup's Orion and Apollo blow OSS out of the water.
www.youtube.com
NG2 Defense was their previous company name.
NG2 Defense
www.youtube.com
NG2 Defense was their previous company name.
x2devgroup's Orion and Apollo blow OSS out of the water.
NG2 Defense
NG2 Defense was their previous company name.
Nice claims they make, but their website is thin on data. Lets see it on a Pulse meter.
x2devgroup's Orion and Apollo blow OSS out of the water.
NG2 Defense
NG2 Defense was their previous company name.
They obviously are trying to improve what OSS has done--have you seen any user reports or independent reviews?
Over the last few years I've seen quite a few new products/companies that sound interesting but very little substance has followed.
Looks like those silencers are made out of unobtanium too! Not a single "real" photo on their website.
I'm pretty sure they've done that but I haven't seen it personally.
David Bahde has done his own reports and reviews. For precision rifles, not really.
Search for a Maxflo 3D Suppressor. First name for it. Plenty of pictures. Their materials list state what it is used for.
I know that some JSOC units are using a number of their products and a lot of their products are based upon recommendations from JSOC.
Wow! Thank you for all the information everyone. Great conversation and you have certainly muddied the waters a bit in my decision making.
Direct and they'll transfer. Capitol Armory used to carry them.
If anyone has questions call the number on their site. Goes directly to their CEO, Ernie. He can be long winded but is very knowledgeable
Its pointless to say "its been on a meter" but not share the data. If they want to be prove themselves instead of just pumping out marketing they need to share the data publicly. And as others mentioned, some real pics would help too.
I agree. But they're not focusing on the consumer or commercial sector where Youtube videos dominate the day. They're focusing on the influencers who use the kit daily, ie JSOC as well as LE departments.
Actually I saw Rainer Arms has three of the old version in stock right now. Haven't searched for the new models yet.
Here's their web site for those interested: https://x2devgroup.com
Looks like 17.2oz for the Orion X2 and it comes direct thread or QD.
I plan on a suppressor for my .308 AR and my .223 AR, one for both. I have a Superlative Arms restrictive/bleed gas block on the .223 but the factory restrictive on the .308 (POF). Think the SA gas block in bleed mode would be as effective as a flow through suppressor? Honestly I was looking at the TBAC Dominus SR, the Ultra 9 or even the Banish 30 Gold package as those appear to tame the noise from both calibers really well. I'm even considering swapping in a SA gas block on the POF, just don't know if it has enough flow potential to achieve the same results as a true flow through design.
Here's their web site for those interested: https://x2devgroup.com
Looks like 17.2oz for the Orion X2 and it comes direct thread or QD.
I plan on a suppressor for my .308 AR and my .223 AR, one for both. I have a Superlative Arms restrictive/bleed gas block on the .223 but the factory restrictive on the .308 (POF). Think the SA gas block in bleed mode would be as effective as a flow through suppressor? Honestly I was looking at the TBAC Dominus SR, the Ultra 9 or even the Banish 30 Gold package as those appear to tame the noise from both calibers really well. I'm even considering swapping in a SA gas block on the POF, just don't know if it has enough flow potential to achieve the same results as a true flow through design.
I will tell you this, Frank DeSomma, RIP, was with these guys at the LE/MIL range day during SHOT Show. Participants shot his .308 gas gun all day and never changed the setting on the gas block. Basically they're saying you can shoot suppressed or not with full gas and not worry about it.
Yep, sent an email to them and the price, direct, is quite tempting. I may give it a whirl. Says it won't be as effective on my .223 as the .308 but it's still very good. Wish there were some actual numbers.
The TBAC would be a good chunk lighter and they have a long history. If this company isn't around in two years and something happens to my silencer, I'm SOL. Gotta think about this a bit as I really want a flow through design.
Edit: The QD mount isn't going to be available until some time next year either. I don't know if it can be converted at a later date or if it'll be ready by the time my form is approved. Not sure what the process would be or even if it'd be possible to switch to QD after my form has been approved.
The TBAC would be a good chunk lighter and they have a long history. If this company isn't around in two years and something happens to my silencer, I'm SOL. Gotta think about this a bit as I really want a flow through design.
Edit: The QD mount isn't going to be available until some time next year either. I don't know if it can be converted at a later date or if it'll be ready by the time my form is approved. Not sure what the process would be or even if it'd be possible to switch to QD after my form has been approved.
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Just want to add something about the SA gas block which I own. The vent port on it is quite small. I can't say, definitively, it would be equal in flow to a flow through suppressor like the OSS or the Dev Group. which has a substantially larger "opening" for gas to vent. I'm suspect the SA gas block can flow as much hot gas. I've tried searching for some sort of a fire rate test on full auto using the SA in restrictive vs. bleed off mode and haven't found anything useful.
Edit: I did find this video. Towards the last third, about the 24:06 mark, he runs full auto in restrictive and bleed off mode, back to back video editing. To my ears, the bleed off cycle rate seems a hair slower but I'd love it if he gave an actual reading.
Edit: I did find this video. Towards the last third, about the 24:06 mark, he runs full auto in restrictive and bleed off mode, back to back video editing. To my ears, the bleed off cycle rate seems a hair slower but I'd love it if he gave an actual reading.
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Sent two emails to these guys, first was about purchasing. Instant response. Second was about warranty and technical questions. No reply. YRMV.
Not this past Friday but the Friday before. Sent the initial email that they replied to and then I replied to their reply and I mentioned it was a Friday afternoon and no rush. But never heard back from them this week.
I'm a small business owner/manufacturer so I get the balance but given the wait times, I'd be taking an awfully big risk on a company that's changed names and has no actual photos of their products on their page. You walk a fine line between trying to get the word out and promoting vs. having products ready and available with real world testing in third party hands.
Still, the direct price is super tempting if it does what it says it does.
Edit: I'll shoot them the reply again and see if they respond. Maybe they've had an influx of inquiries.
I'm a small business owner/manufacturer so I get the balance but given the wait times, I'd be taking an awfully big risk on a company that's changed names and has no actual photos of their products on their page. You walk a fine line between trying to get the word out and promoting vs. having products ready and available with real world testing in third party hands.
Still, the direct price is super tempting if it does what it says it does.
Edit: I'll shoot them the reply again and see if they respond. Maybe they've had an influx of inquiries.
I know they travel a lot as there are only two of them, really. 2 weeks ago they were with the SS.
Still no word. There's no warranty info up on the page either. Can't discern the differences between the Apollo and the Orion other than one is made in a wider range of calibers and one is a few ounces lighter. Can't tell if they're equal in actual silencing ability or if one would be better for use on both .308 and a .223 AR-style rifle. Would like to know how quickly the QD mount will come to market. I think I'll just call them tomorrow as I want to get a silencer ordered asap.
With direct thread, how much of an issue is it for the suppressor to weld itself to the muzzle threads? Assuming carbon buildup to that level would take some time and a whole lot of rounds?
With direct thread, how much of an issue is it for the suppressor to weld itself to the muzzle threads? Assuming carbon buildup to that level would take some time and a whole lot of rounds?
The Apollo is fixed length so it's more suitable for AR based platforms.
The Orion is configurable, so it can be configured for a .308 up to say a .300NM
The Orion is configurable, so it can be configured for a .308 up to say a .300NM
I ended up with the OSS HD-762Ti and honestly couldn't be happier honestly. Glad you bumped the thread as I'm looking at a rimfire suppressor but they're still $100 more expensive than the OSS Rad22 with similar weight but slightly longer overall length. Uphill battle but glad to see competition. Will anxiously await your report!
"I expect a range report after a couple hundred rounds."
Sure, just send me a check!
Kidding aside, absolutely! Except I'm limiting myself to 20rnds/mo. I'm pretty dry. The host will be an MDRX chambered in 6.5 cm.
Sure, just send me a check!
Kidding aside, absolutely! Except I'm limiting myself to 20rnds/mo. I'm pretty dry. The host will be an MDRX chambered in 6.5 cm.
A podcast that I stumbled into last night doubled my anticipation. Check it out! The CEO is one compelling believer--a good attribute to emulate as a leader.
I have a OSS HX-QD 762 Ti and I shoot it on my Colt M16, Colt M4 Command 6933, Smith M21, Yugo Pre Ban RPK, and my Remington 6.5 CM Bolt Action. I like it on my Semis and FA. I really don't care for it on my 6.5 CM. I plan to buy a 30 cal AB Suppressor for my Bolt Action Rifles for Hunting.
I am also going to purchase a M5x1 threaded OSS Mount and use my OSS Can on my NIB SG 510 T AMT Rifle.
I am also going to purchase a M5x1 threaded OSS Mount and use my OSS Can on my NIB SG 510 T AMT Rifle.
Wow, thanks for that! Fascinating guy, I knew nothing about him prior. Great conversation and education.
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