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Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

jasonstoj

jasonstoj

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 19, 2010
39
0
40
Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
#1
Hey guys.... i have a .308 Rem 700 SPS tactical and im just asking out of curiosity... what's the advantage's and disadvantages of fluting the bolt? i mean, i know fluting increases surface area for better heat dispersion and reduces weight... but bolts for a .308 arnt exactly heavy and ive never really noticed mine getting hot....

so do people do it just cause they look cool as hell? (which they do IMO)
 
#5
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Some guys say the flutes help sweep dirt away, giving it a "trough" to sit in and sweeping it out of the action rather than grinding between a solid bolt and the receiver.

It isn't really meant to function for heat dissipation. I shoot a couple 338LMs and neither of those bolts get hot.

I think it is a cool factor. But buyer be warned. If they are too deep or too radical, they will chafe and ratchet the rounds in the magazine, in some cases damaging them.
 
#7
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

I put an over sized bolt in my f-class rifle and tried one that isn't fluted vs one that is fluted and the fluted one was much more smoother in operation. Mind you both where of over sized diameter and made by PTG. I believe the fluting was $35 extra.

Here is a pict of the PTG one piece fluted bolt, they can do many different styles.
Milled-Fluting-image2.jpg
 
#9
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

I always thought it was for the looks. I've heard things from sweeping the dust and keeping the bolt cool.

No real studies or reviews done.

-Daniel
 
#10
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always thought it was for the looks. I've heard things from sweeping the dust and keeping the bolt cool.

No real studies or reviews done.

-Daniel</div></div>

I can only speak from limited experience, but the small depressions in the AE/AW bolts seem to do a pretty good job of collecting dust and dirt in the action and getting it out of the way. It's amazing how much accumulates in there after you leave your rifle out in gusting sandy winds for a few hours...and without cuts just how hard it would be to cycle a bolt.
 
#13
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

if you do like and want it, Kampfield customs is the goto place it seems. everybody always says ice when this question is asked about fluted bolts. it helps keep the bolt from icing someone always says. gives the dirt and debris somewhere to go is the other reply
 
#14
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Less bearing surface rubbing, with the shit finish remmy put on their guns now that translates to a smoother bolt

looks cool


removes a tiny amount of weight (like 30gms I think) if you're trying to cut weight down


looks cool
 
#15
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put an over sized bolt in my f-class rifle and tried one that isn't fluted vs one that is fluted and the fluted one was much more smoother in operation. Mind you both where of over sized diameter and made by PTG. I believe the fluting was $35 extra.
</div></div>

i have found the exact opposite on standard clearance bolt bodies. they seem to be more "grabby" to me. you had to make a conscience effort to push the bolt straight forward without any side load from the bolt handle leverage. it may not be the case with a reamed raceway and tight fitting bolt body though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonStoj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that's something i hoped someone would say.... i would like it if my bolt was slightly "slicker" in operation and i THOUGHT fluting might achieve that...so thanks
smile.gif
</div></div>

i doubt you are going to find that to be true. it sounds to me like you think it looks cool and are just looking for justification. there's nothing wrong with making cosmetic improvements as long as they don't take away from the function. i personally wouldn't flute a bolt for a rifle that will truly be used in the field. now that doesn't mean that i don't own rifles with fluted bolts or won't build another one with one.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SRT Supply</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlouie87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always thought it was for the looks. I've heard things from sweeping the dust and keeping the bolt cool.

No real studies or reviews done.

-Daniel</div></div>

I can only speak from limited experience, but the small depressions in the AE/AW bolts seem to do a pretty good job of collecting dust and dirt in the action and getting it out of the way. It's amazing how much accumulates in there after you leave your rifle out in gusting sandy winds for a few hours...and without cuts just how hard it would be to cycle a bolt. </div></div>

a pretty good job of COLLECTING DUST. that is what i feel but i don't think that is a good thing. the location of the flutes most people put on remington 700 bolt bodies is not where i'd want dust to be accumulating. personally, i'd rather have the dust/grit just fall off a smooth bolt than have a place for it to accumulate and possibly get cammed into the action causing a lock-up.

i don't think cosmetic flutes on a remington 700 style bolt can realistically be compared to an aw/ae.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Less bearing surface rubbing, with the shit finish remmy put on their guns now that translates to a smoother bolt
</div></div>

when cycling the bolt in a factory remington action, the bolt body is only making contact with the receiver raceway in two very small areas. i really doubt the fluting is changing this contact area much, if at all. if you are going to honestly use less bearing surface as a reason, you also need to consider a higher contact pressure. did you really gain smoothness in the bolt?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
looks cool
</div></div>

there's the real answer. for some reason, it is not cool to admit you are doing something just because it looks cool. people will come up with all kinds of ways to justify fluting a bolt just so they don't have to admit that they did it because of cosmetic reasons.
 
#17
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

thanks for the input!...
dont get me wrong though i have no problem admitting i want something just 'cause its cool! but youre also right...i knida WAS looking for justification.... but rather for spending the money than anything else.....dont really want to spend anymore money on that particular rifle JUST for cool factor
grin.gif


are there any other tips to make the bolt operation smoother?

thanks!
 
#19
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Mines fluted just cause thats how I got it, I think its purely for looks; I mean, sweeping dust? Really? I couldn't use that as an excuse to justify something like that in my mind. Seems to me that fluting just creates a void where dust can collect in the first place...
 
#20
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Use isnt the issue though.... iv'e used her plenty!
my concern is my buddy that i go shooting with has virtually the same rifle (mine's an SPS Tac and his is a LTR) we get the same use out of them, use the same cleaning solvents and lubes etc but his cycles MUCH smoother, do i take it to a gunsmith to look at or am i just a fool missing something simple?
 
#21
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Something needs clarification. In regards to the smoothness of the bolt movement, this has nothing to do with surface area of contact between bolt and receiver.

Mechanical engineers quantify friction between rigid materials in the following ways:

to initiate movement: Friction = contact force X static coefficient of friction

to maintain movement: friction = contact force X kinetic coefficient of friction

Both static and kinetic coefficients of friction are determined empirically, that is, by experiment. Neither of the equations above contain a term for surface area.

The degree to which a bolt moves smoothly depends on the friction that exists between the bolt and the receiver, and the friction depends on the degree to which binding takes place. Binding acts to increase the contact forces between the bolt and the receiver, and from the equations above, increasing the contact force increase the friction force.

Having said that, some design attributes effect smoothness. For example, let's compare a Rem M700 with what is arguably one of the smoothest actions ever made, the Colt Sauer. The Rem with its lug-ways cut into the receiver is more prone to binding because the bolt body effectively rides the corners produced by the lug-ways and the receiver bore. The off-axis force applied to the bolt knob tends to force the bolt body into the lug-ways, sort of like a wedge, and effectively increase the contact forces between bolt and receiver. The wider the lug-way, the more significant this effect will be. In contrast, the Sauer has no such lug ways which eliminates the possibility of lug-way binding.

There are other areas where binding can take place as well. For instance, when the bolt is fully retracted, the length of engagement remaining between the bolt and receiver will have a significant effect. The shorter engagement lengths will have the greatest tendency to cause binding.

So again, surface area has nothing to do with anything relating to the smooth operation of a bolt. The propensity to bind derived from the design attributes has nearly everything to do with it. Oh, and because someone out there is probably thinking it, wide tires grip the road better for unrelated reasons. The mechanisms by which they work are very different from what we are dealing with here.

I hope this helps.
 
#22
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

I painted a Remmy bolt once (for some reason, it kept rusting, so I kryloned it) you would be amaized at how little paint was scraped off from bolt to reciever contact.

I highly dought fluting would have any effect on friction.

I have seen water freeze on my AI bolt and just chip off and fall out, but that is a different action and different kind of flutes then commonly seen for primarily cosmetic reasons.
 
#23
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JasonStoj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use isnt the issue though.... iv'e used her plenty!
my concern is my buddy that i go shooting with has virtually the same rifle (mine's an SPS Tac and his is a LTR) we get the same use out of them, use the same cleaning solvents and lubes etc but his cycles MUCH smoother, do i take it to a gunsmith to look at or am i just a fool missing something simple?

</div></div>

Two different actions. Yours is a standard steel action and machined to different tolerances than the LTR witch is a stainless Action.
 
#24
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

I'd have to say the look "cool" factor or someone who is in a competition with a weight restriction on their gun where they need to lose a little weight to make the requirement.
 
#25
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you do like and want it, Kampfield customs is the goto place it seems. everybody always says ice when this question is asked about fluted bolts. it helps keep the bolt from icing someone always says. gives the dirt and debris somewhere to go is the other reply</div></div>

i thought it was to help with ice aswell thats what ive heard for years that and ofcourse it looks badass
 
#28
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

While the friction analysis from TheodoreKaragias is spot on, flutes could still help reduce the operational force of the bolt. Since there is less contact area, there is less area where a potential mechanical interference may occur. No matter how smooth a bolt is, it is still very rough on a microscopic level. This "tooth" if you will causes a mechanical jam, which is less when the contact area is decreased. So contact area will play a role, albeit small compared to the frictional force developed when a jam occurs.
 
#30
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

Not complaining because the work is outstanding, but something surely changed after my TRG-42 bolt was fluted. They are the smoothest operating bolt I have come across from the factory, yet after the fluting the effort to operate the bolt is far from smooth.
 
#31
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crocker84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the friction analysis from TheodoreKaragias is spot on, flutes could still help reduce the operational force of the bolt. Since there is less contact area, there is less area where a potential mechanical interference may occur. No matter how smooth a bolt is, it is still very rough on a microscopic level. This "tooth" if you will causes a mechanical jam, which is less when the contact area is decreased. So contact area will play a role, albeit small compared to the frictional force developed when a jam occurs. </div></div>

The "tooth" you are referring is what causes friction and friction is, for practical intents and purposes, independent of surface area. As it pertains to bolt actions, increasing the surface area could potentially reduce binding, again, depending on the design. This is contrary to the less area = less friction theory which is incorrect.
 
#32
Re: Fluted Bolts? Are they worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not complaining because the work is outstanding, but something surely changed after my TRG-42 bolt was fluted. They are the smoothest operating bolt I have come across from the factory, yet after the fluting the effort to operate the bolt is far from smooth. </div></div>

If the flutes that were cut into your bolt coincide with a corner made by the receiver bore and the lug ways, then your bolt could be falling into the lug ways. I suspect this would increase the likelihood of binding. Can you check to see if that is the case?
 
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