Fluting factory barrel - Bad idea?

[PFG]

I’ve been casually looking for a shop to take my barreled action and flute the barrel, then cerakote.

While reading on 419s site, they make the following call out:

“We do not recommend fluting any factory barrel. We will do it upon request, but no guarantees are made to accuracy after fluting”

https://www.area419.com/product/barrel-fluting/

Is this just 419 covering their own ass, knowing that not all factory tubes are good, and they don’t want to ne held to a manufacturers accuracy claim after fluting it? Or is there a good reason to avoid fluting a factory barrel?

Trying to get some straight flutes done on my Tikka CTR.

 

[Subwrx300]

I'm not a metallurgy expert, so others made have a more accurate answer. I believe it has to do with the steel and the method that some use to create there barrels. Fluting can induce stress in metal which might make some barrels react funny (warping slightly or walking after barrel heats up) to fluting.

 

[Diver160651]

Fluting can cause issues if a barrel is not concentric. Factory barrels have a reputation, while shooting well, of not always having the bore perfectly concentric.

While I like the look of a fluted barrel, I stopped just because barrels wear out so very fast. You're going to add $140+$225 + freight and any fees for removing your action

Personally, I would NOT flute the barrel, especially one that already is relatively light and save the money for your next barrel.

 

[PFG]

and any fees for removing your action

Didn’t realize the barrel would have to be removed from the action to add flutes. Good to know.

The CTR is nearly a light Palma, so plenty of meat for flutes.

 

[Yoteski]

If you're doing it for the curb appeal of the rifle, i.e. shallow flutes that really don't take much weight out I think you'd be okay. Just realize that at the best outcome, your gun will maintain the same accuracy. If you're wanting to do deep flutes that actually lighten the gun significantly, I'd say skip the factory barrel and go custom. There's not a lot of meat in the factory barrel and as others have commented, bore concentricity could lead to thin spots.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Why would you waste $300+ fluting and cerakoting a shitty factory barrel? Just seems like a waste to me.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

The other issue is this: fluting creates stresses in the steel. Barrels that are fluted from the factory originally, can be stress relieved and heat treated AFTER fluting. This way the barrel can be perfect AFTER the fluting is done.
To do aftermarket fluting on a barrel that wasn’t intended to be from the beginning can cause some wonky issues. Not 100% of the time, but it can.
In order to assure everything was done 100% correct, the stress relieving etc. would very likely be more money than it’s worth on a factory tube.
Shoot this barrel out, then buy one fluted if you have to have it.
Just know, MANY top smiths and barrel makers DON’T recommend fluting.

 

[PFG]

Why would you waste $300+ fluting and cerakoting a shitty factory barrel? Just seems like a waste to me.

You’ve never owned a Tikka, have you...

 

[spife7980]

You’ve never owned a Tikka, have you...

Still a factory barrel...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You’ve never owned a Tikka, have you...

Only about a dozen. Wouldn't waste my money on it.

 

[PFG]

Still a factory barrel...

Meaning? That I shouldn’t bother fluting bc of potential harm to its current match grade accuracy?

Or did you just want to make sure that I was extra aware that my barrel is “factory” :|

 

[PFG]

Only about a dozen. But I’m too cool for an accurate factory gun.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Krazy_jim]

I believe its due to Tikka barrels being a bit slow

 

[VegasHKShooter]

Cmon guys, don’t let the thread go to shit. It’s a good question, and I’m sure others have thought about it.
Tikka’s generally shoot “lights out”. They can be fantastic barrels, but any barrel shot much is going to go. The number of rounds is caliber dependent. If a new Bartlein is $650-$750, why spend $250-$300on fluting to a factory barrel that’s going to wear out in 2500 rounds?

 

[PFG]

Cmon guys, don’t let the thread go to shit. It’s a good question, and I’m sure others have thought about it.
Tikka’s generally shoot “lights out”. They can be fantastic barrels, but any barrel shot much is going to go. The number of rounds is caliber dependent. If a new Bartlein is $650-$750, why spend $250-$300on fluting to a factory barrel that’s going to wear out in 2500 rounds?

It’s a good point, but this is my hunting rifle. It probably gets 100-150 rounds a year. Max. I think I’ll be good in 15 years when it needs a new barrel.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

Ok. Makes sense.
I was looking at things from a competition standpoint where barrels get shot out in a year or so.
On a hunting gun, that shooting schedule, you’ll get tired of it before it wears out. ?

 

[spife7980]

Meaning? That I shouldn’t bother fluting bc of potential harm to its current match grade accuracy?

Or did you just want to make sure that I was extra aware that my barrel is “factory” :|

Yes.

All of the above.

You have a factory hammer forged barrel.
That means it is rife with stresses in its material from being beaten into its final form.
Start cutting on it and you are removing the very material that is holding those stresses in place.
So it could do any number of unpredictable things with only one of those outcomes not being negative. And that not-negative does not make it a positive, it is a net zero in that it hopefully doesnt change, thats your best case scenario.


So, my question is why would you invest 180 bucks into a barrel that is probably only worth 100 bucks? If the 5 ounces of weight saved is that important to you then leave your car keys in the truck instead of in your pocket.
If its looks and aesthetics then go for it.
I, personally, would rather spend 500 on a PVA or criterion prefit that is 1" shorter for the weight savings than to take a gamble on something that has the potential to ruin it.

 

[Subwrx300]

It’s a good point, but this is my hunting rifle. It probably gets 100-150 rounds a year. Max. I think I’ll be good in 15 years when it needs a new barrel.

I think you'd save more weight by going with the new manners Ultra Classic CF hunter stock: 18oz. Not sure on how much a factory Tikka stock weighs but most factory options weigh around 2lbs-3lbs. Fluting might save 1/2 - 3/4 pound or so, but stock will always be safer bet than fluting a barrel after the fact.

 

[brianf]

Accuracy international did a study about fluting a while back.

One design change that resulted from AI’s exhaustive accuracy testing and development of the PSR [Precision Sniper Rifle] is the removal of flutes from the barrels. Engineers at AI decided to isolate the barrel flutes to see what impact they had on accuracy. The engineers attached a laser to the rifle’s receiver, another to the barrel, and a third to the scope. All three dots were zeroed at the same point, then they started shooting the rifle. They discovered that, no matter which fluted barrel they used, the dots would diverge as the barrel heated. The dots from the devices mounted to the scope and the receiver would stay in place, but the barrel’s device would manifest a point-of-impact (POI) shift. The POI shift from the warming barrel greatly diminished when they used barrels without flutes.
Engineers determined that the flutes never heated evenly, causing the POI shift. I hope the results of this test gain wide circulation through the sniper and long-range shooting communities to help eliminate some of the ignorance that surrounds the perceived advantages of barrel flutes. Flutes are great for shaving weight, but this is the first test I’ve heard that provided empirical data detailing what happens when the barrel is fluted. This should be the death of the “they cool a barrel faster, so they’re more accurate” argument, listed among flutes’ virtues. Our goal is and should always be to mitigate the effects of heat; fluting exacerbates it.

since i read that...no more flutes for me factory or custom

 

[PFG]

Thanks @brianf

Science. Research. Modeling. Real data. I can dig it.

No flutes.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Fixed it for you.

Every rifle I currently own is technically factory. I own zero custom rifles at this point.

Sorry I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, but it's your money so piss it away if you choose. Putting that much money into a factory barrel is counter productive. What do I know though, I've only been down that road a few times.

 

[PFG]

Sorry I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, but it's your money so piss it away if you choose. .

I wanted (and got from more intelligent posters) real data backed information. Not forum bull shit. But thanks for trying.

 

[brianf]

Not flaming the fires but redneck knows his stuff....just doesn’t always come out that well sometimes. Lol

 

[Harman117]

Side note: Does anyone have or know where to find the full study/tests that AI performed? I quickly googled it and could not find anything resembling the actual report or test procedure/data/etc...
I could have sworn that I read somewhere the report was publicly published.

 

[hlee]

BrianF’s post is a quote without attribution, aka hearsay. It has AI in it, so that’s good, and... it is in bold... But, by itself it should carry no more weight than any other post. In fact, ad copy from (fictional) barrelfluters.com- expounding the virtues of fluting on barrels- should carry the same weight. I’m not saying that Brianf made up the quote, or even that it is wrong. I’m commenting on how the OP changed his tune when ONE PERSON brought up AI without any real data, research, science, or modeling results. Just one more flag twisting in the wind of what he calls forum BS.

Btw, I would also like to see the actual research. Not because I do not believe it (it would actually confirm a long held suspicion of mine) but because I’ve got a genuine interest. I’d be even more interested if it was published in a peer reviewed journal...

 

[brianf]

follow up to posts above:

this particular example is of limited scope, limited amount of available data, limited validation...but....stick with no flutes...why introduce more variables then we have to. if Bartlein and Accuracy international partially agree ill follow blindly until something else comes out.


Below is a post from Frank at Bartlein Barrles, seems that his barrels were used in some Accuracy international testing.

"To answer a couple of things on the fluting as I made a couple of phone calls and emails. On the subject of the fluting and poi shift etc...that was the initial subject right now I'm pretty sure to go on a limb and say it was a LW barrel which are made by button rifling and was done in the U.K. from the information I received back. Those barrels where they were fluted the bores opened up on them and went sour from what I was told. So that tells me the barrels were not properly stress relieved and or the barrel blanks just retained alot of stress and when you fluted them the fluting operation relieved the stress and that causes the bores to go go sour.

This is another verification to me that I'm against fluting a button rifled barrel. You have no way to measure or tell if a button rifled barrel has any residual amount of stress in the blank after rifling and stress relieving.

I will also say that AI did do some testing here in the States with our barrels and fluting geometry/styles. It's possible what they learned in this testing lead to more testing over in the U.K. but I'm not to sure which came first. Any way the testing they did here in the States was approx. 3 years ago with our barrels. What they were testing was the fluting profile that they spec'd along with the contour of the barrel and it was to aggressive. The flutes were around .150" deep at the muzzle and around .200" deep towards the breech end. The goal with the aggressive flutes on that particular contour was to save weight. What they found was that particular contour and fluted on .30cal. barrels they shot just fine but when they made that contour and flute spec. on a .338cal. they had consistency in accuracy and vertical stringing issues.

They then took the same contour barrel in .338 and shot it unfluted. It shot fine with no stringing etc...then they fluted the barrel but only went approx. .100" deep on the flutes it had no change in accuracy.

It seemed between the .30cal and the .338cal. barrels the .338's just reacted differently. Probably because of less material in the barrel due to the different bore size etc...

I know this will answer some questions but will raise others as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

So on that particular rifle and or barrel contour they changed the spec. on the contour to reduce the weight and just don't flute the barrels on that particular model and no issues."

 

[jinxx4ever]

I just received a factory fluted Barlein barrel, look forward to shooting it

 

[brianf]

the post i wrote this reply to has since changed or my computer is messing with me again.

the post was something along the lines of "Wow, should i now return my new fluted bartlein barrel because it wont shoot.."

if its still around , read below.

if its gone dont pay attention.

i said:

nope, just putting out some info that others might like to read.

i have a fluted 300 wm on a hunting rifle that the CCB shot is dead on.
never planned on shooting strings with it.

maybe send it back to Bartlein and tell them you want your money back because the owner posted that flutes are shit.

just busting chops...