Suppressors FML - SOT lost my can.

[TenZero]

Story so far - 6 Dec 2012, order a TBAC 22 L1 from Rangerwalker71 here on the hide. Great transaction, very nice guy to deal with, highly recommended. 1 Feb 2013, I receive an email from TBAC that they have a UPS delivery confirmation to my dealer. Great so far. Normally, the dealer takes a few days to get my F4 packet together, and then calls me to come pick it up. After three weeks and nothing, Newtown notwithstanding, I try calling the SOT and cannot get through. Today, I make it in there, and of course, the counters are 5 deep in customers. When it is finally my turn, I'm told they can't find my can, do I have the UPS tracking #? Yes I do, right here in my email, and hand the dude my phone. After 45 more minutes of unsuccessful searching, still no can. I am promised they will find it and call me ASAP to pick up my F4 packet, so I leave. Shit.

So, the situation is still developing, I understand mistakes happen, and the gun business is crazy right now, but I am astounded that they don't have control of their NFA inventory. Their shipping/receiving guy signed for it, how could it just be lost? It was my understanding that the whole point behind the SOT is to ensure that the whereabouts of NFA items is properly controlled until the end user receives his approval from the ATF. I guarantee that if the ATF wanted to know where one of my cans is, and I couldn't find it; I would be in a world of shit. Has anyone else ever had anything like this happen? I am giving them til 01 Mar to locate it, but if they don't find it, how should I proceed? Any suggestions?

 

[seanh]

Go there tomorrow call and the ATF while standing there in-front of them.

 

[CUSTOM1911FAN]

Was it a UPS snafu? They steal shit, ya know. Fedex ground is the worst, from what I hear. USPS no better, they had a guy making false delivery confirmations to my buddy, and dropping guns in a PO Box rather than walk up a fucking flight of stairs or notifying anybody! Shady shit. Give them a break, drink a shot of Yeager, woo-saah, and relax. I am sure they wouldn't have sold AND transferred your serialized NFA item to somebody else. And if they did, they'd be able to cross reference their documents to see where it went. Oh, and yes, the ATF will eventually want to know where it went-they are sticklers for even the most basic of gun sales or logging guns in and out of gunsmithing. It is a big deal and they are subject to big money and admin sanctions if they can't account for transfers when it comes time for yearly audits. Don't worry, if it truly is lost, the ATF will screw them plenty harder than you ever could. I would give them a few days to see what's up.

 

[KYS]

Go there tomorrow call and the ATF while standing there in-front of them.

I would be pissed off. I say go there and say "well we need to call the ATF together and get this resolved".
Losing a can and not contacting the customer is very unprofessional, and lazy.

 

[ORD]

I would be pissed off. I say go there and say "well we need to call the ATF together and get this resolved".
Losing a can and not contacting the customer is very unprofessional, and lazy.

+1 on this! If you have delivery confirmation and the signature of the SOT's shipping/receiving guy's signature confirming receipt of it and they "can't find it"...time to get the ATF to crawl 6ft up their ass. I guarantee you it'll get found then (and in a HURRY I'd wager)!!

I too understand that mistakes happen, the industry is crazy, blah, blah, @#$%ing blah, but just "misplacing" or otherwise failing to maintain proper control of NFA inventory is just inexcusable. I'd give them 24hrs and then I'd be going back in and proceeding as above.

 

[c3guns]

First and foremost, in the eyes of the ATF, the can is not actually YOURS yet. From a civil and otherwise legal standpoint, yes, it's your property since you paid for it and the seller fulfilled their obligation to ship it to you. Assuming the UPS tracking info is correct, as far as the ATF is concerned, the can is now the sole property and responsibility of the receiving SOT dealer. The firearm is added to the dealer's registry at NFA branch as soon as the transfer is approved, well before the approved form 3 actually makes it back to the first SOT. So, from an ATF standpoint, it's a matter between them and the local SOT. Unless the dealer happens to receive an IO inspection in the near future, it's doubtful the ATF will take notice, or even know, that the can is missing.

If the local SOT determines that the can is in fact lost, stolen or otherwise unaccountable for, they will simply report it to NFA Branch as a stolen firearm, document the circumstances, and a paper trail will be established, but there really isn't a big fuss made over this. Believe it or not, it's fairly common for cans to be stolen out of dealers' inventory and as long as the dealer is taking adequate measures to prevent the theft, it's typically a non-issue.

If the local SOT does report the can as stolen/missing to NFA Branch, you then have a civil issue to address with them over replacement value for the suppressor. You will need a sales receipt from the original dealer, the UPS tracking information and an invoice for the replacement of the suppressor under whatever the most recent pricing structure is, including shipping, etc. You're not entitled to any additional compensation for the wasted time, etc. unfortunately, and since the local SOT is merely the transferring dealer, they likely will not be in a big hurry to go above and beyond the minimum compensation to you, unless you're a regular customer that buys lots of THEIR inventory, and even then, don't expect too much.

It sucks, but remember that the local SOT is not making any money off of the sale of the suppressor, other than what they're likely charging to do the transfer to you. So, they don't have a big financial interest in keeping you happy in this transaction. As an SOT, being responsible for a firearm that I didn't sell is more of a PITA than it's usually worth, so I charge $100 just to do an NFA transfer, and your local SOT likely has the same attitude.

If the transaction turns sour (the local SOT tells you to buzz off and won't take financial responsibility for replacement of the suppressor), your best recourse will be small claims court. You can contact ATF and find out what division IO office covers your jurisdiction, contact them, and ask for the assistance of the people there. In my experience, the IO people are generally helpful and will do what they can within the narrow confines of the regulations, but again, don't expect much from the ATF. It's not the fault of the local IO people, it's just the way the regs are written.

Hope this helps.

 

[Charger442]

i would like to know who the SOT is here in Texas. Care to disclose that information?

 

[TenZero]

C3, thanks for taking the time on the detailed, knowledgeable response. Exactly what I was looking for, although it's a bummer that I don't have much recourse if it is really gone. I'm very surprised to hear that this is a common occurrence though. As many hoops as we have to jump through to own a can, I would have expected them to be more secure.

So if it is lost, and even if Thunderbeast could shit me a new one tomorrow, (and who knows how long their backlog is) I'm still looking at 60-90 days for another Form 3, and then 6-9 months for the Form 4. Thats depressing. I was feeling pretty pleased that I had got this one all squared away before the madness.

Charger, I'm going to give them a chance to make it right before I punk them on a forum. I think that's fair, since Murphy visits everyone once in a while. Murphy definitely seems to take a special interest in my NFA transactions though; I wish he would find somebody else to hassle.

 

[farmerted]

1. Unless the dealer happens to receive an IO inspection in the near future, it's doubtful the ATF will take notice, or even know, that the can is missing.

2. Believe it or not, it's fairly common for cans to be stolen out of dealers' inventory and as long as the dealer is taking adequate measures to prevent the theft, it's typically a non-issue.

3. If the transaction turns sour (the local SOT tells you to buzz off and won't take financial responsibility for replacement of the suppressor), your best recourse will be small claims court. You can contact ATF and find out what division IO office covers your jurisdiction, contact them, and ask for the assistance of the people there. In my experience, the IO people are generally helpful and will do what they can within the narrow confines of the regulations, but again, don't expect much from the ATF. It's not the fault of the local IO people, it's just the way the regs are written.

1. According to this OP should contact the ATF if the dealer is unable to find the can.
2. Can any other dealers chime in on how many times cans are stolen out of their inventory, a person who has had this happen to them or heard about this? Gun shops are a prime target and I've heard of a few being broken into, but nothing that would show it's happening everyday.
3. Small claims court and the internet. Posting that a dealer that doesn't control their inventory, loses your property and tells you to go fly a kite. I'd imagine this would do wonders for their rep.

 

[c3guns]

A buddy of mine with an SOT had a (now former, of course) employee that apparently walked off with several suppressors during his tenure, a fact which was not discovered until an inventory count which was done after said employee had already quit and moved on. The "loss" was reported to ATF, the local LEO did an investigation, but with only supposition to go on, it's a dead end. Unless the SOT in question here has security video to show an actual theft occurring, the matter is generally considered a dead-end from the start.

To clarify for the OP, the reason the in-state SOT is involved in the first place is because NFA firearms are treated like handguns, etc. whereas it's illegal to transfer said firearm between states to an non-licenesed person. The firearm must be first transferred to an in-state dealer, then transferred to the buyer at the "local" level. The only difference being that NFA firearms require a transfer/background check approval at the federal level each time they are transferred.

Again, in the eyes of the ATF, NFA firearms are just like any other firearm when it comes to theft, loss, inventory control, etc. There's no more/less jeopardy to a dealer or individual when it comes to properly maintaining possession of a "gun".

 

[piglatinhater]

If a shop is so crazy that they are losing track of items (guns, suppressors, etc) they need to shut down shop for a few days to straighten up. $10 bucks says they never call you back even if they do find it...

 

[Lazlo]

Since you have a tracking number, I would suggest that you request to view the dealer's bound logbook. This should show the dealer logging the receipt, or show evidence he never did. If it's logged in, it was obviously misplaced or stolen. If not, then there would be no record other than a tracking number showing the transaction, and not much reason to get the ATF involved.

 

[TenZero]

My Thunderbeast is found, and my dealer is out of the doghouse. I held it in my hand, and got started on my form 4. lost a few weeks paperwork time, but it's all good. Thanks for the advice, all.

 

[Turk]

Go there tomorrow call and the ATF while standing there in-front of them.

Straight out of this book!

 

[peaceatwar]

Straight out of this book!

Cannot reccomend this book enough. This was actually the first audiobook I ever listened to. A great book to have read to you as well.