FN SCAR 20S vs. HK MR762A1

[theLBC]

Well. Hey if it’s suppressed and breaks? If they give you any crap? Who’s fault is it? I mean is it ok to put an oil filter on the front? Lol that’s kinda like putting headers on a car and tuning it. Factory doesn’t have to acknowledge if that’s what caused the issues.

they have to cover their arse because they have no idea and can't predict what somebody is going to stick on the end of the rifle, or if that somebody is smart enough to turn down the gas and/or run a smaller jet.
it doesn't mean the rifle isn't perfectly solid or reliable with a suppressor.

 

[epmonies]

I think HK used to say the same thing about the MR762 - warranty is void if you run it suppressed... I agree that this is mostly CYA stuff.

 

[GUNNER10]

I think HK used to say the same thing about the MR762 - warranty is void if you run it suppressed... I agree that this is mostly CYA stuff.

In HK'd defense, I don't think they had carriers imploding so this could be filed under the no harm no foul. FN carriers like to catastrophically fail when a traditional cam is mounted, even on the suppressed setting

 

[theLBC]

In HK'd defense, I don't think they had carriers imploding so this could be filed under the nobharm no file. FN carriers like to catastrophically fail when a traditional cam is mounted, even on the suppressed setting

i have heard of issues with the scar-h, when deployed to soldiers that ran them on full-auto with the gas on regular.
to date, i haven't heard of any catastrophic failures on a 20s, but it isn't like i am part of the pipeline.

 

[epmonies]

i have heard of issues with the scar-h, when deployed to soldiers that ran them on full-auto with the gas on regular.
to date, i haven't heard of any catastrophic failures on a 20s, but it isn't like i am part of the pipeline.

I have a buddy that runs a 20 suppressed and hasn't had any issues whatsoever.

 

[theLBC]

I have a buddy that runs a 20 suppressed and hasn't had any issues whatsoever.

i know quite a few, but they aren't doing mag dumps on full auto either.
i only know a couple guys that used them (scar-h) in the field and they always ran them with the short 13" barrel.
i don't think it is terribly fair to assume a 20" scar that is properly tuned is going to fail similarly.

 

[Wizard1183]

The Scar has bolt failure, however there’s not that many failures on civilian side. From factory they’re over gassed from a few that state that. Then ppl may run a crap suppressor on it and asking for more trouble due to heavy back pressure.

They have a few who say it destroys optics. Well some get destroyed I’m sure? I’ve not read many having issues on those in awhile.

Then you have those state don’t shoot 308 in it cause it’s a nato chamber and can’t take the higher pressures? I’ve heard ppl feeding there’s steel casing junk, fgmm, 308, nato M80 amd it eats everything.

Maybe it can be a bit finicky like anything else? Every single weapon made mass produced had one with an issue. someone will always call something junk and then those close to them will take it as gospel having never used one.

you have those saying well if I’m spending $3k on a gun I should be able to run anything on it. If you spend $80k+ on a vehicle, you’re gonna run crap components on it? Why? If you can afford the product you should run the best on it. Otherwise spend less, upgrade it with OK crap. And use the hell out of it. Then throw it away and get another.

that YouTube video didn’t say much other than he beat that scar17 to shit and had way over gassed and acting like the product as a whole is a failure? Perhaps he failed the product?

 

[theLBC]

The Scar has bolt failure, however there’s not that many failures on civilian side. From factory they’re over gassed from a few that state that. Then ppl may run a crap suppressor on it and asking for more trouble due to heavy back pressure.

They have a few who say it destroys optics. Well some get destroyed I’m sure? I’ve not read many having issues on those in awhile.

Then you have those state don’t shoot 308 in it cause it’s a nato chamber and can’t take the higher pressures? I’ve heard ppl feeding there’s steel casing junk, fgmm, 308, nato M80 amd it eats everything.

Maybe it can be a bit finicky like anything else? Every single weapon made mass produced had one with an issue. someone will always call something junk and then those close to them will take it as gospel having never used one.

you have those saying well if I’m spending $3k on a gun I should be able to run anything on it. If you spend $80k+ on a vehicle, you’re gonna run crap components on it? Why? If you can afford the product you should run the best on it. Otherwise spend less, upgrade it with OK crap. And use the hell out of it. Then throw it away and get another.

that YouTube video didn’t say much other than he beat that scar17 to shit and had way over gassed and acting like the product as a whole is a failure? Perhaps he failed the product?

a lot of haters point to that same video, but notice they couldn't demonstrate the failure, or even try?
mine shoots 175gr .308 fgmm under .75" and cheap ppu m80 better than 1.5moa. since i am no marksman, others could probably do better.
i have never had a misfeed or failure of any kind.

 

[GUNNER10]

i have heard of issues with the scar-h, when deployed to soldiers that ran them on full-auto with the gas on regular.
to date, i haven't heard of any catastrophic failures on a 20s, but it isn't like i am part of the pipeline.

Yeah, I haven't not really heard anything negative about the 20's but the 13 inch 17's that we messed around with back in the day, were pretty damn violent.

I would really not lose any sleep if FN shit canned the 17 and developed off the 20.

 

[GUNNER10]

The Scar has bolt failure, however there’s not that many failures on civilian side. From factory they’re over gassed from a few that state that. Then ppl may run a crap suppressor on it and asking for more trouble due to heavy back pressure.

They have a few who say it destroys optics. Well some get destroyed I’m sure? I’ve not read many having issues on those in awhile.

Then you have those state don’t shoot 308 in it cause it’s a nato chamber and can’t take the higher pressures? I’ve heard ppl feeding there’s steel casing junk, fgmm, 308, nato M80 amd it eats everything.

Maybe it can be a bit finicky like anything else? Every single weapon made mass produced had one with an issue. someone will always call something junk and then those close to them will take it as gospel having never used one.

you have those saying well if I’m spending $3k on a gun I should be able to run anything on it. If you spend $80k+ on a vehicle, you’re gonna run crap components on it? Why? If you can afford the product you should run the best on it. Otherwise spend less, upgrade it with OK crap. And use the hell out of it. Then throw it away and get another.

that YouTube video didn’t say much other than he beat that scar17 to shit and had way over gassed and acting like the product as a whole is a failure? Perhaps he failed the product?

Considering that no other modern 308 gas guns have had catastrophic carrier failures this is more of an engineering failure more than anything else, and honestly, even the handful that we have seen accounts for online, are an order of magnitude higher than they should be. You also referenced crap cans, I think the more appropriate term would be incorrect can, as FN does not really address what cans are compatible with their system, and only that they only recommend their can that they will not sell to you.

Outside of the suppressed issues, I really don't think any of the criticisms of the 17 in regards to reliability are valid. The 17 is a very reliable rifle.

I think the hate comes from people getting into a Scar and finding out 90 percent of components that work fine for most rifles, may not gel well with the scar.

 

[Wizard1183]

Why do people get hung up on it...I tell you why...because some that can't afford it or aren't trained with a system go on a rampage on disapproving it...then they sit on the interwebs reading about some soldier having this and that issue...that gets blown up and spread all over the net...they will find YT videos and find the "ONE"...why seals hate SCARS...

Not to mention whether or not they got paid to say that? We’ll never know? But when you KNOW you’ll get umpteen million views for something? There’s shady shit going on with that. YouTube is good for old music videos and how to diy. Other than that? Mainly bullshit

 

[mewillis]

Considering that no other modern 308 gas guns have had catastrophic carrier failures this is more of an engineering failure more than anything else, and honestly, even the handful that we have seen accounts for online, are an order of magnitude higher than they should be. You also referenced crap cans, I think the more appropriate term would be incorrect can, as FN does not really address what cans are compatible with their system, and only that they only recommend their can that they will not sell to you.

Outside of the suppressed issues, I really don't think any of the criticisms of the 17 in regards to reliability are valid. The 17 is a very reliable rifle.

I think the hate comes from people getting into a Scar and finding out 90 percent of components that work fine for most rifles, may not gel well with the scar.

Spot on commentary Gunner10

 

[epmonies]

May be an unpopular opinion but I've never understood the allure of the SCAR. Limited component options as Gunner stated, looks funny, oh and it’s heavy.

 

[GUNNER10]

May be an unpopular opinion but I've never understood the allure of the SCAR. Limited component options as Gunner stated, looks funny, oh and it’s heavy.

For me, when we got them in for testing, its was really cool to be able to essentially pick up one of our M4's have the Scar basically come in at the same weight, at least with the 13 inch barrels, despite how violent they were on full auto, I really just that they were cool because at the time, most of the 308 gas guns were at least a pound or two heavier. I just think the idea of a light weight,reliable folding 308 gas gun is pretty cool.

Well I eventually picked one up, dropped in a normal length hand guard, and all of a sudden its not really as light as it once was, Since the Scar came out a lot of companies have done a lot of development and there are some really good lighter, 308 gas guns out there that are as light if not lighter than the scar and practically speak, just as reliable. Hell just compare the folding hinge on the Law tactical to the Scar.

Once you throw in the competition, the component issues, the weird recoil impulse, the 17 is kind of dumb. It would be more interesting if it was priced like the Berretta AXR, but as is, not so much, I think my SR25 is closer to being worth 4200 dollars than my 17 is to being 3k.

The 20 on the other hand seems solid and Ill eventually probably try to swap my 17 for a 20 in 6.5

 

[thehun]

Don't go 6.5CR on a SCAR...yet...they are having some issues with primer pop...

To me the SCAR system works very well in .308. I've had all variants and have settled on a 20S cut down to 16" and a regular ugg boot stock (its the SCAR H-PR variant in Europe)...I personally do not like the SSR stock...too heavy and really doesnt offer much improvement over a nice tight ugg boot (my SSR stock was somewhat sloppy in fit)...combination of the ugg boot and chop to 16"...I saved 2lbs off the gun but have a better chassis and barrel vs a 17...

 

[GUNNER10]

Don't go 6.5CR on a SCAR...yet...they are having some issues with primer pop...

To me the SCAR system works very well in .308. I've had all variants and have settled on a 20S cut down to 16" and a regular ugg boot stock (its the SCAR H-PR variant in Europe)...I personally do not like the SSR stock...too heavy and really doesnt offer much improvement over a nice tight ugg boot (my SSR stock was somewhat sloppy in fit)...combination of the ugg boot and chop to 16"...I saved 2lbs off the gun but have a better chassis and barrel vs a 17...

Honestly this is a configuration that really intrest me. I wonder what the issues is with the 6.5.

 

[Texascbr]

I love my Scar 20 but to the point above about primers popping in the 6.5. I get badly cratered primers with my 308 (latest model). Bushing the bolt face properly is not a new concept and it’s a shame this is not working from the factory. I use strictly FGMM in 168 or 175 and this is not a hot load. Berger factory 308 in 175 which I used at Frank’s class were the same with cratering and those were slower than the FGMM 175.

FN when contacted were of zero assistance and said they were fine as they were not getting pierced. FN support sucks. I had a 2 year run around on a post sample P90. They eventually made it right but only my perseverance kept things moving.

 

[thehun]

FN is using standard 308 firing pin. It needs to be smaller for 6.5CR.

I don’t have an issue with my bolt, nor any other SCAR I’ve owned before. This is .308/7.62NATO. I don’t run 6.5.

I had great luck with FN and warranty. Received a new barrel and bolt without any fuss on a prior SCAR.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

@thehun what are the issues with primer pop? Im not really familiar with issues on the 6.5cm 20s and I do have one that I shoot pretty regularly. I dont have a very high round count but Im at 1200 rounds through the pipe and they were all new factory rounds

 

[thehun]

Several users on fnforum and ARFCOM have reported issues…

 

[mr_fullmetal]

would that be more of an ammo issue though? and Im really not trying to stir the pot, Im really just curios to know if there is something preventive i could be doing

 

[SoundFx]

@thehun what are the issues with primer pop? Im not really familiar with issues on the 6.5cm 20s and I do have one that I shoot pretty regularly. I dont have a very high round count but Im at 1200 rounds through the pipe and they were all new factory rounds

I’m not thehun but I have my single experience in this. My 20S 6.5 is back at FN as I write this for piercing primers, and in the case of the 130gr Bergers, completely blowing them out of the case.
I wish I kept some of the 140 ELD cases to take pics of too, but those appeared to have the firing pin punching a perfectly round hole in some primers. Only fired maybe 25 rounds from my rifle before I sent it in. Sucks because it was expensive and I figured FN would have learned all the lessons about 6.5 that other companies have by now (JP, LMT, etc).

I’m hoping they can fix it, and if not, just swap me a .308 barrel. I could accept that I guess. Anyway, not dumping on FN. Optimistic they will make it right.

 

[epmonies]

I’m not thehun but I have my single experience in this. My 20S 6.5 is back at FN as I write this for piercing primers, and in the case of the 130gr Bergers, completely blowing them out of the case.
I wish I kept some of the 140 ELD cases to take pics of too, but those appeared to have the firing pin punching a perfectly round hole in some primers. Only fired maybe 25 rounds from my rifle before I sent it in. Sucks because it was expensive and I figured FN would have learned all the lessons about 6.5 that other companies have by now (JP, LMT, etc).

I’m hoping they can fix it, and if not, just swap me a .308 barrel. I could accept that I guess. Anyway, not dumping on FN. Optimistic they will make it right.

Big yikes.

 

[Wizard1183]

Big yikes.

It’s not like any other firearm manufacturer never had an issue with their firearms…

HK has problems of their own. Google basically any firearms with the word “problems” behind it and they’ll show up. One persons gun isn’t every gun they produced.

 

[thehun]

Yeah those are what I have seen being reported as well.

 

[epmonies]

It’s not like any other firearm manufacturer never had an issue with their firearms…

HK has problems of their own. Google basically any firearms with the word “problems” behind it and they’ll show up. One persons gun isn’t every gun they produced.

Oh for sure, but this sounds like numerous cases from numerous rifles. Once there is a pattern for that type of failure, pretty bad for brand.

 

[USACS]

HK MR762 20rd mags are $90
FN SCAR17 20rd mags are $49
Magpul PMAG-LR 20rd mags are $20

Geissele MR762 trigger is $465
Geissele SCAR trigger is $360
Geissele AR trigger is $240

If I’m going to buy a rifle, one thing that I‘m going to be concerned with is the cost of components to either modify it, or at least accessorize and maintain it. HK stuff is incredibly expensive. Aftermarket components for the HK are around, but not in any major quantity. FN SCAR components have a bit of a larger aftermarket, so you’re not going to pay as much. HOWEVER, running any other AR that runs SR25 pattern will be demonstrably less expensive to customize and modify, and the aftermarket is by far the most plentiful. If I’m going to buy a large frame AR, I want an SR25 compatible rifle System. I don’t want proprietary mags or proprietary triggers. I want something that I can not go broke on to get to optimal performance, because I still have to slap on $3k+ in optics and mounting hardware.

 

[thehun]

Sure but if you can afford $3k worth of optics than a $100 here and there isn’t going to bother you unless you make it a point that it does.

Either way. It has always been this way…the price for admission for top tier weapons has never been cheap…take KAC SR25 for example…or even the MWS system now. It is just like houses, cars, trucks etc…

I’ve had a good number of .308 semi autos and a well-tuned SCAR has been the best all-around setup I’ve owned…hands down…specifically when it comes the balance of reliability and accuracy….when I can be effective out to 600 with M80 ball…that’s a huge win for me…my groups on the 20S barrel don’t really start to open up until about 15rds down the pipe…

However the best system I have is the Mk12 with a FN CHF/CL barrel…that thing just loves M193 all day all night…

 

[Wizard1183]

Oh for sure, but this sounds like numerous cases from numerous rifles. Once there is a pattern for that type of failure, pretty bad for brand.

There’s no pattern of bolt carriers broken. That’s BS. If so show my 10videos and articles showing it. No less than 10. Preferably 20-30. Remember. They’ve sold thousands of this rifle. So even 50 articles shouldn’t be that hard right? I won’t wait up though…

 

[Wizard1183]

I love my Scar 20 but to the point above about primers popping in the 6.5. I get badly cratered primers with my 308 (latest model). Bushing the bolt face properly is not a new concept and it’s a shame this is not working from the factory. I use strictly FGMM in 168 or 175 and this is not a hot load. Berger factory 308 in 175 which I used at Frank’s class were the same with cratering and those were slower than the FGMM 175.

FN when contacted were of zero assistance and said they were fine as they were not getting pierced. FN support sucks. I had a 2 year run around on a post sample P90. They eventually made it right but only my perseverance kept things moving.

Technically the rifle is made for 7.62x51 ammo. You CAN shoot 308 in it. However! Pressures will be 5k+psi greater than doing so. 308 is a hotter round no matter what. So backpressure will be more.

 

[thehun]

Technically the rifle is made for 7.62x51 ammo. You CAN shoot 308 in it. However! Pressures will be 5k+psi greater than doing so. 308 is a hotter round no matter what. So backpressure will be more.

This is correct…

 

[N-C]

HK Mags now this days it's very very hard to see one for sell , if I see I get it ( $$$ ??? ) this mags is very high quality mags

 

[N-C]

I do not Have SCAR 17s or 20 Rifle now ( but I have some Mags ), maybe some day when I like have more guns then I get one ( $$$ ??? )

PS ## Not For sell ##

 

[USACS]

Sure but if you can afford $3k worth of optics than a $100 here and there isn’t going to bother you unless you make it a point that it does.

Either way. It has always been this way…the price for admission for top tier weapons has never been cheap…take KAC SR25 for example…or even the MWS system now. It is just like houses, cars, trucks etc…

I’ve had a good number of .308 semi autos and a well-tuned SCAR has been the best all-around setup I’ve owned…hands down…specifically when it comes the balance of reliability and accuracy….when I can be effective out to 600 with M80 ball…that’s a huge win for me…my groups on the 20S barrel don’t really start to open up until about 15rds down the pipe…

However the best system I have is the Mk12 with a FN CHF/CL barrel…that thing just loves M193 all day all night…

I totally get what you’re saying, and if someone is willing to pay to play then I certainly can’t fault them for it. That said, my position is that when we’re dealing with platforms that have so many proprietary parts, that $100 here and there starts to add up very quickly because it’s persistent. If you’re only going to buy 2-3 mags, then maybe it’s not an issue for the HK, and definitely not an issue for the FN, but when you’re the kind of person to buy 10+ mags because you want to make sure you always have mags for the gun for as long as you have it (particularly with magazine bans), it adds up very quickly. The difference between an SR25 PMAG-LR and HK mag is $70, but for 10 mags it’s $700. And that’s assuming that you can actually source HK components, because a lot of their products are often times about as obtainable as unicorn shit. And for that matter, HK mags are only good for HKs. PMAGs are good for all SR25 pattern rifles. The same goes with a $3k optic in that it can go on any gun that you want it to. And for that matter, the aftermarket support for SR25 pattern rifles is monumentally more than proprietary systems like HK and FN (granted, for what aftermarket there is for FN and HK, it’s pretty good quality).

That said, I’m also a huge hater of HK from having dealt with them on the LE side and having absolutely garbage customer service and maintenance support with MP5-40s, UMP40s and two G36Cs. They’ve made me well aware that they hate me and think I suck. I’d be lying if I said that didn’t cause me to throw some extra cynicism at their products. Definitely makes me biased towards competitors like LMT and JP.
I’ve also dealt with FN to a degree on a couple occasions and they have been pretty decent in communication.

 

[thehun]

Hk does suck service wise. I’m an FN guy and they been great!

 

[theLBC]

i wanted an MP5 for a while, but they aren't legal here,
anyway, the shine came off when i saw how often they break at battlefield vegas.
the scar 16 "almost never breaks". nuff said.

 

[ShaoKahn]

i wanted an MP5 for a while, but they aren't legal here,
anyway, the shine came off when i saw how often they break at battlefield vegas.
the scar 16 "almost never breaks". nuff said.

See, that’s just straight up facts.

 

[thehun]

SCAR probably has one of the best, unstressed barrel attachment methods around for a semi-auto...the system sheds heat pretty darn well too...it is why they do pretty darn good with NATO rounds besides the fact that FN makes great hammer forged/chrome lined barrels...

 

[nevrmiss1]

HK, the way to go. If you are on the fence, I would get a nice bolt.