Rifle Scopes FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

[OZZZ]

Ive been reading my a** off for the better part of a week. Ive done a fair share of hunting but am new to technical shooting.

Working on building a rig on a budget. Just bought a Rem 700 SPS-V .308, then a Nikon Monarch 4-16x50. Returned the monarch, didnt like it. I do want to swap out the crappy stock that came with the SPS.

Heres the problem. Right now, at this moment in time. I cant spend more than $750 and I dont have optics yet. Right now my brain literally feels like its burnt from reading 4 different mil dot users guides, elevation, moving targets, Slope incline, equations, mil/mil vs moa/moa, FFP vs SFP, etc, etc. I think I have a good handle on everything.

Anyway, Im kinda torn between buying a $500 scope, and getting a stock for around $250. Or just biting the bullet and spending all $750 on optics and keeping the crap stock for now.

Im familiar with most all the major brands of scopes, but cant decide which way to go. Bush 3200/4200/6500, SS, Sight Siii, Leupy's, etc, etc. The gun will be an all around hunting, target, technical shooting gun. Want 100-1000 capability. I dont want my skills to outgrow the gun. I realize Ill need 100 MOA or comparable elevation capabilities and/or combined with 20 MOA bases to get me where I need to go.

Seems like all the good scopes are out of my price range. I guess if it was an absolute must I could MAYBE drop $1000 on optics if it was really worth it, but then Im stuck with the crappy stock too and it will be awhile before I can swap it out.

As soon as I think Ive researched and decided I read something else that changes my mind.

Suggestions??? My ears are wide open guys. Help a brotha from anotha mutha out......

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

New Vortex is right around the corner in that price range.

FFP mil/mil and looks promising. Look for threads with Scott from Liberty Optics.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

get the new Super Sniper for $600. I've got one and I'm pleased with it so far.

 

[treebasher]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Don't forget the Falcon Menace 4-14x44FFP...

http://www.falconoptics.com/menace4-14x44FFP.php

http://www.rwsnydergunsmithing.com/secure-rwsnydergunsmithing/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=37

 

[billyburl2]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

I would recommend the 3x9 SS. FFP and mil/mil, and well under your allowance. I don't have personally, but I do have an original 10x SS, and the optics as well as the turrets are supposed to be better! Or you could step up to the 10x HD, it also has mil turrets, and supposed to be pretty amazing glass for $800.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

You guys rock, lol .... really appreciate the guidance on this one. You know, I would be all over that super sniper... the only thing is I really would like a bit more magnification. I realize many are happy with 10x out to 1000, but Ild like at least up to 12 or 14. Definately would prefer 100MOA or equivalent elevation adjustments. BTW .... If Im looking at mil/mil, what would be equivalent elevational adjustment to 100 MOA? Isnt 1 MIL like 3.4 MOA or something? So what .. Ild need approx 29 mils of elevational adjustment? Am I even saying that right?

On a side note, if I could keep the cost to around $500-$600 I could probably spring for a new stock now too

Im gonna look at all these suggestions right now, Im all ears to everyones opinions and more input on the subject. Its really helping!

Oh ... and Captain kick ass ... I looked at SS's website and didnt see any variable at all.

 

[fdkay]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Don' forget to add about 100 dollars for rings and a base.
A good set of burris XTR rings and an EGW 20 MOA base will set you back about 100. It is a very cost effective but very good, robust setup.
Right now, the only two in your price range for VARIABLE scopes is the 3-9 SS or the Falcon Mencae series.
Weaver makes, what looks to be an excellent scope in your price range EXCEPT the adjustments are IPHY (.25 inch).

I have not yet jumped into the FFP mil/mil pool. I fully intend too, but my finances won't allow it.
My two current tactical scopes are a Millet TRS-1 that I am VERY pleased with and a Mueller Tac-2 that I am also very pleased with.
They are both SFP scopes, but both work extremely well.
I have variable power scopes on most of my rifles, the scopes spend the VAST majority of time on the highest magnification, except in hunting situations.
You may want to consider the SS 10x or 16x, that way you will have very good glass with enough left over to upgrade your stock. Although they both have adjustments in IPHY.

The Choate Tactical can be had from combatstocks.com for 200, I highly recommend it, the B&C light tactical can be had for about 245 from midwayusa, it is also an excellent stock.

ETA: Here you go. it's pretty sweet.
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P41044.aspx

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Ive been eyeing those FM's ..... I will be using the rifle double duty for hunting so I really would like a variable so I can dial it back down. Thats not to say I wasnt considering a fixed power, but with all things considered, I would really like to be able to do some target out to 1000 for the challenge, as my skills increase, but still be able to hunt with it too. I believe a variable in the 3 or 4 to 12 or 14x or better range is best from what research Ive done. Certainly feel free to correct me on this if my views seem off base.

Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated. I do realize the cost of the rings and base, but appreciate the suggestions on those brands for sure. If I can get a scope in the 100+MOA(equivalent) range I can avoid the 20 MOA base correct?

Also, what are your thoughts on the mil to MOA conversion I metnioned earlier. Am I correct in thinking that a 29 (approx) mil elevational capability is equal to 100 MOA?

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

i love it....i want to do a moon shot and all i can afford are bottle rockets.......do you EVEN have access to 1000yd ?

 

[brand692]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

It will be hard to find a scope that fits all those bills. Low enough power to hunt with, high enough to do 1k with, not to mention clear enough to shoot 1k, and keep it under 750?

IMO, you are talking about two different scopes, really. And the latter, a true 1k capable scope is going to cost you more than 750.

While I don't own a SS, after seeing LLs review, I'd have to say I'd love to try one out, even though I'm a MOA shooter. It seems like a great platform to learn MILs on.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Bolt - Im not claiming Im capable of it at this time by any means (previous experience all in 400-600y range and is limited at those distances.) However, I am building a rig with that ultimate goal in mind. From what Ive read, it doesnt sound like Im ridiculously out of budget here - but maybe Im wrong on this.

Yes, though....I do have access to that kind of range and beyond, in fact.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Brand .... thanks for that, and maybe that might end up being what I run into! I swear Ive heard people talking about making it work on optics under $1K, but then again... maybe its all internet talk??

Then again if your thinking the SS might be up to the job, its under $1k ....... sooo ???

In the end I might have to make some comprimises I realize, and thats kind of why I posted this thread, I havent really found anything that fit the bill. Maybe cuz its not out there!?? lol ..

I was under the impression as long as I had elevational adjustment of 100MOA or better on a .308, and of course assuming the optic is reliable... it should be able to zero at 100 and be raised to 1000??? Is this not the case?

Thanks for the education once again .... definately helping me to sort out and narrow down to a purchase.

Any suggestions on used optics to around the $1K price point?

I can always add a stock, but buying a $500 scope that wont do the job is really just wasting $500. Thats why I say Ill jump to $1k if need be. From what Ive seen, even used USO, NF, etc, etc are out of that range though ???

 

[brand692]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

There are several USOs in the classifieds for ~1k, ST-10s. Then you are back to fixed power. The others are considerably more.

I've yet to hear a bad word about the SS 3-9. I did read one problem of with a turret and SWFA immediately replaced it for him.

The NF BR series can be had used for about 1,000. The are fantastic scopes. I've had two of them. Not a single gripe, but they are 1/8 MOA, never seen them in Mils.

EDIT: The NF NXS is hard to have for 1k, even used. Mil/Mil and Mildot reticle under 750 still says SWFA SS to me!

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

I just got done reading that review thread ... and am pretty tempted still just a little held off by the 9x mag limitation.

1/8 adjustments is a deal breaker ...... I had a few at that and it was a PITA I dont care to deal with again

 

[BobinNC]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

OZZZ,

With 3-9x42mm SS you get about 20 MILS of adjustment. 20 mils is 72". You need 11-12 mils to get to 1000 with a 308.

Here how you do it. The SS 3-9 has 72". That's 36"(or 10 mils) up and 36" down. Add a 20 MOA base (5.5 mils), and now you have 56" up (15.5 mils) and 16" (4.5 mils) down adjustment.

Now you have enough.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OZZZ,

With 3-9x42mm SS you get about 20 MILS of adjustment. 20 mils is 72". You need 11-12 mils to get to 1000 with a 308.

Here how you do it. The SS 3-9 has 72". That's 36"(or 10 mils) up and 36" down. Add a 20 MOA base (5.5 mils), and now you have 56" up (15.5 mils) and 16" (4.5 mils) down adjustment.

Now you have enough. </div></div>

Perfect ... and makes since at 1 mil = 3.6"

More than elevation, I was worried about being able to see the target out that far with only 9x magnification; to be honest, it may be completely unfounded.

I think Im going to jump and go with it, that video review, plus the mil/mil and FFP at $600 really is hard to beat, also, Im going to spring for a stock as well and call it a day. Later Ill add a DM conversion kit, a trigger job, and a barrel. For a few years however this is what Ill work with...

The package deal comes with rings but Ill look around for a 20 moa base...

 

[Slippery_Pete]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

I'm all over that SS 3-9. Get the SWFA 2 package, and it comes with rings and other goodies. My buddy picked one up yesterday, I'm getting one for Xmas and working on trading into another one.

I looked through both at the store at the top of a water tower across the street. It's hard to tell a difference from the fixed 10x and the 3-9x when set at 9x as far as magnification. Both are very clear. I've read a few people shot them to 1000. Not sure what that entails, but it's at least possible.

I think that fits your needs like a glove. You can always trade up later to get something higher power.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Thats what Im thinking, sounds like a perfect fit ... on a side note, its a 30 mm tube isnt it??

The package deal comes with rings but says with 1" inserts so Im not sure.

Anyway theres no base included so Im ordering a 20 MOA base too....

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Now off to hunt for stocks

 

[Shiraz]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

What was wrong with the Nikon scope?

I've shot past 1200 yards with 9x, it works, how short is your hunting yardage going to be?

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

better to have badass optics on a good gun than good optics on a badass gun. this is only when budget does not allow badass optics on badass gun

.

just put a down payment on that exact gun to get it in the mail thursday, cant wait. i plan on putting a buckmaster 3-9x40 BDC on it with seekins base and rings to get me through this deer season. as funds allow i will upgrade stock to mcm and get a better scope. buckmaster will go on my 6.8 ar. what are your plans for your new gun?

glad i found your thread because this is about my budget for a tactical scope too

 

[JoshuaJJackson]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OZZZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
More than elevation, I was worried about being able to see the target out that far with only 9x magnification; to be honest, it may be completely unfounded.</div></div>


I Wouldn't be to worried about not seeing target at 1000 yd with 9x, I can see and drop man sized targets at 600 yd with my ACOG on my M16 which is only 4x. Never had a chance to shoot it farther but I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shiraz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What was wrong with the Nikon scope?

I've shot past 1200 yards with 9x, it works, how short is your hunting yardage going to be?



</div></div>

Not less then 100 very often ... Im hoping this will get me to that and I will still be able to get a 100 yard zero if need be. I did order a 20 MOA base. It looks like at 100 its only like 2" high so with 16" down I should be plenty covered...

Heres the stock I ordered. Im all set, except all the shit is backordered.... now the waiting begins.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=486263

Thanks a ton guys you have been a huge help ...

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Im pretty happy with the selection of equipment overall and dont plan on changing it.

However, what am I missing, taking a look at a ballistics chart for 168gr match grade ammo shows 369" of drop at 1000 yards.

EDITED: Im tired as hell ....... nevermind and thanks again guys.... 1 mil = 3.6" at 100 yards/36" at 1000

15 mil up = approx. 540" up @ 1000

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[okiefired]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Not really sure about your question but that sounds about right. 369" at a 1K is 36.9 moa (aprox., 1 moa is actually a little over an inch). I think for most .308's it will take somewhere around 34 or 35 moa to get you to 1K. Another thing, you will almost never get a scope mounted that will give you exactly half if its travel up amd down. Example; if your scope has 100 moa of travel, you may have only 30 moa up and 70 down. Slanted bases ae a good thing.

okie

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

wait so are you going with the SS scope? isn't the reticle in mils and knobs in moa meaning more math before each shot?

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be had?

Yes Im going with the ss

The SS 3-9 is mil/mil though.

.... sorry for the confusion I deleted most of my question becaues I had a blank moment.

Looking at ballistics for some factory grade ammo it looks like drop @ 1000 is anywhere from the 360-450" so either way Im covered.

Yes I will be using a 20 MOA base giving me approx. 15.5 mils up and 4.5 mils down which should put me at about 540" of elevation at 1000 ...... which looks to be plenty

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

sorry im new to this too. just to clear things up from my last question, cant you actually read a mil dot reticle and moa if you choose to like it you have moa turrets?

when are you gonna get it?

let me know when you do and if this scope is enough power for shooting that far, this might be the route i go too if your satisfied with it. id rather have a little more power but well see how much money i have when that time comes

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

No worries bud, however, thats what Im saying ... this scope does not have MOA turrets.

It has mil turrets...

Some scopes do have mil dot reticle and then MOA turrets, this is not the case with this scope. The mil turrets coincide directily with the reticle making adjustments that much easier due to less calculations that need to be made.

Go to this website and read through it front to back, all through ... its a great website!

http://www.mil-dot.com/

 

[grunt soldier]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

jack yes you can its just more math. alot of scopes are mil dot w/ moa adjustments. you can still do everything w/ them that you can do w/ a mil/mil or moa/moa scope it just requires more math.

the super sniper 3-9 is a very solid little scope. its glass is super for that price. i got premier uso and nightforce. had a leupy mark4 but to be honest the super sniper glass was better edge to edge and in over all clarity. it has solid low light capabilities too. and to boot its mil/mil and ffp. i haven't run it out past 200 yards as i put it on my 22 but i can see human sized targets at 9x at 1k no problem.

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

ahhh i see it says .10 Mrad, makes sense now.

so all those mil dot scopes out there with .25 moa adjustments and stuff just make you do more math? im not sure i quite understand it fully, cant you read a mil dot reticle in moa if you have moa turrets and want to avoid the extra math? but its just easier in the long run to get a mil dot scope that has mil adjustments?

thanks for the link

 

[Lindy]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

With a scope with a mildot reticle and MOA adjustments, if you see an impact in the reticle which is off the target, and want to dial an adjustment for it, you will have to measure the impact with the reticle, and then do the math to convert the error in mils to MOA.

It's not a big deal to do that - but it's simpler not to have to.

If the scope adjusted in mils, you'd just dial the correction you measured with the reticle.

A scope with a mil reticle should have mil adjustments. A scope with a MOA reticle should have MOA adjustments.

 

[OZZZ]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

Jack ---- definately spend some time reading through that entire site, it answered all my mil and moa questions and helped me grasp it much better. It took me hours to read through the whole site... but is well worth it.

Grab some coffee before you start .... theres a buttload of information there! Everything you want to know and more for sure..

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

i will read it this wk maybe while in the deer blind lol.

this may sound stupid, but can anyone give me an example of a moa reticle? i bet i have seen them before online and just not realized or read that they were moa. and cant you still read a mil dot reticle in moa...? the distance between each dot being 1 mil or 3.438 moa or 1.47 inches?

 

[jackh]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

read all the links, helped a lot. did you get your scope in yet? how far off have you shot with it?

 

[beenjammin]

Re: FNG post- is there a $750 mil/mil, FFP to be h

Did anyone mention the falcon 5-25x50? Its FFP and mil/mil. I have enjoyed mine that I got last year. If they price has not gone up, for my $750, Id buy one and a nice set of rings with the cash left over.

It is currently on my 40 trainer.