Rifle Scopes FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

[Jim_D303]

Hello Gents,

I've been lurking here for the past few weeks trying to pour through the FAQ threads. I've learned a lot so far, and I'm excited to learn more.

I'm putting together my first rig now, just got into a range with 500 yard capability. They have steel at every 100 yard interval out to 500, we've already rung the hell out of these with our AK's and AR's, now we're looking to learn precision rifle shooting.

I now have a R700 .308 AAC which I have yet to shoot, and I need to add rings, bases, and glass. This is a rifle to learn on.

As a result of the reading I've been doing, I took note of the Leupold Mk4 bases, Burris XTR rings, and either the Super Sniper 10x scope, or the Falcon Menace 4-14 FFP offering.

At the 4-14x magnification range, and for shooting/learning .308 within predominately 500 yards, would this be a good choice? Are there other scopes I should take a look at that are close in price? Putting a $1k optic on this thing isn't realistic for me these days, but if I should save up a few more dollars, I'd be interested to hear why.

I'm figuring that I'll likely learn what I do and don't like/ need as I go, so I would like to save my money for ammo/ reloading equipment (and my other shooting habits).

I'm trying to avoid spending much more than I need to, to get out there and start learning the long range stuff. I can shoot carbine and pistol like a madman, but I'm a total noob past 300 yards.

Are there other rings/ bases that are a better value? Are there concerns with what I've listed?

Thanks so much guys!
Jim

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

If your looking for an economy rig to learn on it is hard to beat the Super Sniper. The 10X is pleanty for the ranges mentioned. As for mounts I've had good luck with these; http://swfa.com/TPS-Mounting-Kit-for-Remington-700-Short-Action-P44683.aspx

 

[Graham]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

Badger rings and a Super Sniper: the 10xHD Mil/Mil (with parallax adjustment) if you can afford it, or the one I mounted on my GAP 18" for 600 and under - the 3-9x42 Mil/Mil (which doesn't have a focus knob).

 

[long range dogr]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

I'd go with a one piece 20moa base,A set of Badger Ordnance or Seekins rings,And Super Sniper 10 power.

I'd try to get the best base and rings you can afford! If you do a search on the Burris xtr rings you'll see that there have been some issues with them.

 

[schiaa]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

The SuperSniper Mil/Mil 10x with Badger rings would be a great choice.

It'd also be worth your time to check out the Vortex Viper PST.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

I agree with everything. Said so far.
But I will say this-
Do what is recommended here, BUY GOOD RINGS!
That seems that is where most cut costs.
One thing I've learned the hard way......you buy cheap, you'll buy twice!!
Hope I help you.

 

[learjet]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

get whatever 10x supersniper u can afford. i agree, dont skimp too much on the rings and bases..a buddy has had 2 leupy bases crack on his 308 over the years btw..

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I'm still trying to search and find out more background info behind some of the things mentioned, but I had a few questions.

I've been shooting and working in the gun industry long enough to realize that there is a difference in quality between rigs that you'd want to go to war with, and ones that are more built for recreational needs. I question how badly I really need the Afghanistan sniper stock/rings/bases, for a rifle getting shot off the bench on the weekends, though. That's not to say I don't want a good rifle, it's just that the consequences of equipment failure and hassle equal a wasted range day, and that's about it. If saving $400 means I'll run a 1 in 10 chance that I might have to RMA a piece of kit...that <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> not be a bad decision for my own personal requirements. For a guy out in dirk-dirkistan...different consequences for equipment failure.

It surprises me that in 2010 we still haven't companies who haven't quite figured out how to securely bolt a round tube to a serrated rail, but I guess that's the case. I didn't see too many problems mentioned with the XTR rings, but I'll keep looking. How about the Leupold PRW's? Is having them lapped more important than brands? Is setting the proper torque the key? Or silicon lining?

What rings are "good enough" to not have to worry about? I fully intend to witness mark every bolt, screw, and adjustment point on the rifle... I've seen everything break and shift before. But what rings have been proven to hold up 99% of the time?

The Viper PST (mil/mil FFP) looks sweet, but I really don't need an illuminated reticle. I'll have to see if I can swing that, but my gut says it's not worth buying over a SS at $300 right now (if that's my only other option).

I'm sure their will be a new scope/ stock/ etc down the road....I just want to get out there figuring out my own preferences (and into a class with Jim Smith or Vern Harrison, etc) and get learning the skill. The longer I have to save, the longer I'm waiting to start, the less ammo I can afford to buy, and the further off a class becomes.

I'm not trying to resist buying quality kit, just trying to really match my own needs to the valuable feedback you all have offered so far.

Again, many thanks for the help!
Jim

 

[fdkay]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

First set your budget.
The SS 10x is a good way to go and is very attractively priced for the rear focus version.

HOWEVER, it is a mil/moa setup.
There is nothing really "wrong" with that, but a mil/mil or moa/moa setup makes more sense.

I like a variable power, I have had very good luck with my Falcon Menace 4-14x. I removed the turret caps, sprayed them out with airsoft gun lubricant (aerosol silicone spray) wiped them out and sprayed off the orings, cleaned them off then gave it a light coat and the improvement was incredible.

If you would have checked here 5 months ago, the Falcon Menace was the flavor of the month.
The glass is good, it tracks well and it is an excellent platform to learn on.

Plan on 400 for the falcon, 300 for the SS rear focus, 300 for a millet TRS-1 mil/mil or 220 for a bushnell 10x mil/mil.

Add an EGW one piece base, no need for a 20moa base for 500 yards and a set of burris XTR rings or a set of weaver tactical 6 hole.
Are they as good as badger, TPS, IOR or any other high dollar set?
No.
Are they good enough, rock solid and dependable? Yes.

You can get the EGW and the set of rings listed for about 80 - 100 bucks.
I would NOT go cheaper than that.
My first choice would be the Falcon, followed by the SS, then the millet and finally the bushnell.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First set your budget.
The SS 10x is a good way to go and is very attractively priced for the rear focus version.

HOWEVER, it is a mil/moa setup.
There is nothing really "wrong" with that, but a mil/mil or moa/moa setup makes more sense.

I like a variable power, I have had very good luck with my Falcon Menace 4-14x. I removed the turret caps, sprayed them out with airsoft gun lubricant (aerosol silicone spray) wiped them out and sprayed off the orings, cleaned them off then gave it a light coat and the improvement was incredible.

If you would have checked here 5 months ago, the Falcon Menace was the flavor of the month.
The glass is good, it tracks well and it is an excellent platform to learn on.

Plan on 400 for the falcon, 300 for the SS rear focus, 300 for a millet TRS-1 mil/mil or 220 for a bushnell 10x mil/mil.

Add an EGW one piece base, no need for a 20moa base for 500 yards and a set of burris XTR rings or a set of weaver tactical 6 hole.
Are they as good as badger, TPS, IOR or any other high dollar set?
No.
Are they good enough, rock solid and dependable? Yes.

You can get the EGW and the set of rings listed for about 80 - 100 bucks.
I would NOT go cheaper than that.
My first choice would be the Falcon, followed by the SS, then the millet and finally the bushnell.</div></div>

Thank you, sir!

EGW is local to me, and they've given me a factory tour there when I had them do some work on my AR. Knowing how they do business up there, it's no surprise to me that they're mount gets the nod. Thanks for the reminder!

The Weaver rings hold zero well? I think we have some at work I can grab....that's good news.

I saw lots of good sentiments on the Falcon's, and they seemed like a great way to learn on a FFP mil/mil (or moa/moa) scope. I just haven't seen many "I've been using this for X months, and I'm still happy I bought it" posts. But feature wise it looks like an attractive package.

I presume FFP scopes are more expensive to produce? They seem to be in the minority, and more expensive when available.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[fdkay]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

If you go with weaver, make sure they are the "tactical" rings.
They are heavier duty.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

I decided to go with the EGW HD Tactical rings, and EGW bases.

Talking to EGW about them put my mind at ease that I was getting something for my money...plus it's nice to do business with people who you trust and know do things the right way.

I'm almost positive that I'll be going with the Falcon Menace next, unless someone can help talk me out of it. The consistency in the reticle/ turret units is a selling point for me, and the FFP on the adjustable powers is a selling point for me...as well as the price (of course).

While the SS 10x has the great reputation, at $300 you're getting neither paralax adjustment, turrets you can reset to zero (not sure of the technical term for this yet), and fixed magnification. It seems to me that the extra $100 to get paralax adjustment and 4-14x magnification would be money well spent. Their service reputation helps reduce my concerns about it being more of a budget optic.

If there is anything else that is consistent with the reticle/ turret units, has adj paralax, and has a reticle that consistently measures at all powers the scope works on (fixed power included) I'm interested to know more about it. I saw a Bushnell that was less than $300, but haven't seen any others less than $600.

Thanks again guys, I'm glad you all reminded me of EGW.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[fdkay]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

Actually, the SS has a parallax adjustment, on the 300 dollar scope, it is at the rear by the ocular lens.

I can not confirm if the turrets are resettable.

I think that for the 89 dollars more, getting the variable with mil/mil is worth the money.

 

[learjet]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

the super snipers have both a parallax adj and resettable turrets. if you get a falcon, put it in the freezer for an hour or 2, and then turn the magnification ring, and see if the reticle turns in the scope as the mag changes...mine did. mine did it first after a 3hr drive to go shootin on a cold day. had to simply put the gun away and drive home. it had worked fine in warmer temps for 6 months. seems they are workin fine for lots of guys though

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: learjet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the super snipers have both a parallax adj and resettable turrets. if you get a falcon, put it in the freezer for an hour or 2, and then turn the magnification ring, and see if the reticle turns in the scope as the mag changes...mine did. mine did it first after a 3hr drive to go shootin on a cold day. had to simply put the gun away and drive home. it had worked fine in warmer temps for 6 months. seems they are workin fine for lots of guys though </div></div>

That doesn't sound good....is that a problem than can be had with FFP reticles? I don't know how they're made inside, but is that something unique to the Falcon's, or does that same potential exist with any FFP scope?

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Actually, the SS has a parallax adjustment, on the 300 dollar scope, it is at the rear by the ocular lens.</span>

I can not confirm if the turrets are resettable.

I think that for the 89 dollars more, getting the variable with mil/mil is worth the money. </div></div>

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying that...wasn't trying to be misleading, so thanks for setting the record straight.

Jim

 

[learjet]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

not bashin the falcons, but i gotta say i was disappointed. that was the second, and last, budget priced but feature filled scope i will ever own. between me and my buddies we have 6 regular and 1 hd super snipers, and they all have been perfect

jimD u anywhere near state college / lewistown pa? theres a 1k range up there, and we r goin up tomorrow. 3hr drive for us, we will be up there all day im guessin. u wanna stop by?

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: learjet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not bashin the falcons, but i gotta say i was disappointed. that was the second, and last, budget priced but feature filled scope i will ever own. between me and my buddies we have 6 regular and 1 hd super snipers, and they all have been perfect

jimD u anywhere near state college / lewistown pa? theres a 1k range up there, and we r goin up tomorrow. 3hr drive for us, we will be up there all day im guessin. u wanna stop by? </div></div>
Thank you kindly for the invite!

I'm working till 5:30 (SE PA, Chester County), then shooting a GSSF match this weekend. Maybe another time?

What killed the Falcon for you?

Jim

 

[azimutha]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

Get good rings and a base and you'll never have to replace them (as long as you stick with scopes in the same diameter). For what you're doing I really don't think there's a better optic to learn on and rely on than the SS 3-9X. It's mil/mil, has good glass and is rugged and repeatable. IMO, no scope in that magnification range really needs parallax adjustment. I found it easy to get behind.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

best buy you are going to find is the $199 bushnell tactical fixed 10x with mildot and mil knobs at midway. the glass is better than you would expect fair amount of elev. adj. and knobs actually have a pretty good feel and are repeatable. i am buying one just to keep as a backup to my s&b on my match rifle. just in case something were to go crazy wrong and break on my s&b. good choice with egw base/rings. i have used many sets of leupold prw/qrw, warne maxima they are both great rings for the money. don't get me wrong i am running badger usmc rings on my schmidt, and seekins on most everything else but mostly because i am spoiled, do you need them for what your doing NO.

For the record I applaud you for being realistic on your needs for the rifle. if you just plinking theirs no reason to spend a ass ton of money on it.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have the EGW bases and rings in hand, and I ordered the Falcon from RWS...should be here Friday.

Again, thanks for the help!
Jim

 

[learjet]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

only time my falcon acted up was when it was cold. i got mine from RWS also...he shipped me a new one immediately after seeing mine w te reticle turning..

u missed a good day in mifflin. was a rare almost zero wind day. ill pm ya next time we head that way

GL! lear

 

[mijopa]

Re: FNG Question. Optic to start learning on?

SS 10x
falcon 4x14
WOTAC 4 x14

any of these will allow to to learn to use the knobs, mil dots, 1/4 moa etc.

some times these low price scope end up staying on your rifle even when you have the money later because they work..