FNG want to shoot a Scout at longer ranges

[cliffy110]

New guy here. I've posted a few things in this forum over the past few months and WAY back in the day, I was a member with the username Cliffy109 but somehow, I can't access that now.

I'm not a long range kind of guy. I will never be one. I don't have access to the ranges needed for it. I am however, pretty solid with a scout rifle. I've taken a lot of rifle training with a scout and have written a number of blogs and youtube videos on it. I've got the fundamentals down pretty well from 10 to 300 yards. In the last class I took, I hit that magic point of unconscious competence within the general rifle skill set.

I'm ready to expand that skill set. I DO NOT DESIRE TO ABANDON THE SCOUT RIFLE! My goal is to use the scout rifle out to longer ranges and after a bit of training and experimentation, I'm setting a goal of the ability to achieve first round hits at 600 yards without sacrificing the versatility of a scout rifle.

So I started my quest by shooting the Kraft target with my Steyr. As you can see, it isn't impressive. The good news is, even with Lake City M80 ball ammo and a 1.5-5X scope, I can deliver shots from prone and sitting pretty well. Kneeling and standing however are pretty bad. Part of this is an equipment issue as I was using a Primos Trigger Stick Gen 3 which is incredibly unstable.

Which brings up my first question. Do I need to invest in a decent tripod now or wait until after I go through some real training? If I need a better tripod, which one, keeping in mind that I will NEVER be shooting PRS matches except maybe as a training exercise and not as a serious pursuit to win.

I am working toward a training class late this summer, but ammo is another concern. I have a decent supply of Hornady ELDX 178 grain ammo, but it turns out, this rifle doesn't like that load. From sandbags, it shoots about 1.5 to 2 MOA. It shoots the Lake City M80 Ball at a consistent 1 MOA. I guess I could take a class with that or start looking for a deal on something else like 168 match ammo. At 600 yards, does it really make a difference?

Any other suggestions? Anybody in Central Virginia want to teach me how to make the most of this platform?

 

[Pvt.Donut]

You only have a scout rifle in the sense that it's names the Scout. A typical scout rifle uses a long eye relief scope mounted out further. Really, you just have a standard bolt rifle setup here with a LPVO. You say you have the fundamentals down but I'm going to assume you don't (do any of us really?). Always room for improvement there. It's always easiest to suggest the shooter is the problem since it's the biggest variable.

Next, the lower power magnification of that optic isn't going to help you shoot tiny groups at 100 yards. If you're able to achieve 1 MOA I think that's pretty solid with that setup. As you mentioned, sounds like you need to test some more ammo and see what it likes shooting.

Otherwise, take a class and keep practicing.

 

[cliffy110]

You only have a scout rifle in the sense that it's names the Scout. A typical scout rifle uses a long eye relief scope mounted out further. Really, you just have a standard bolt rifle setup here with a LPVO. You say you have the fundamentals down but I'm going to assume you don't (do any of us really?). Always room for improvement there. It's always easiest to suggest the shooter is the problem since it's the biggest variable.

Next, the lower power magnification of that optic isn't going to help you shoot tiny groups at 100 yards. If you're able to achieve 1 MOA I think that's pretty solid with that setup. As you mentioned, sounds like you need to test some more ammo and see what it likes shooting.

Otherwise, take a class and keep practicing.

whelp... Okay. I actually wrote an article about scopes for scout rifles that was referenced by Michael Bane as the most complete description he's seen on the topic. An LPVO is widely accepted as a viable solution for a scout rifle: https://cliffy109.blogspot.com/2020/12/what-is-best-scope-for-scout-rifle.html

Anyway... I get your point though. Training and practice. I'm on that. Just hoping to find some input on where and from whom and figure out how important this tripod issue is. It seemed to really negatively affect what I was doing with the Kraft target drill.

 

[DIBBS]

Many here with much more experience than me.

That being said, a low power variable scope and precision shooting at longer ranges, are to a degree mutually exclusive unless your eyesight is ... way above average. Can it be done... maybe...but there are better options available IMHO.

I am not familiar with the platform and its accuracy potential. Personally with my OLD eyes, more magnification is a definite plus. Primarily depends on what your end goals are, and how badly you want to achieve them.

 

[6.5SH]

FWIW my JC edition Scout shot well with 168 gr FGGM, 168 Hornady TAP and 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded to 168 FGGM velocity.

Use the built in UIT rail and try a Harris or better bipod.

You wont get good results with long strings of fire but with good ammo and a stable position the Steyr Scout can absolutely do what you are asking.

 

[ma smith]

I'm puzzled by the "minimalism" /puritanism debate around that rifle,
and its optic etc, when I look at that shooting rest/tripod

 

[cliffy110]

I'm puzzled by the "minimalism" /puritanism debate around that rifle,
and its optic etc, when I look at that shooting rest/tripod

LOL... I get it. I know. My logic wasn't sound in that choice. I've never owned a tripod of any sort and never felt the need for one. As I started to look into stretching the legs of the rifle, I noticed how many long range guys use tripods and it seemed to be a standard piece of kit. Sticking to my instincts to keep things light and handy, I figured this would fit right into my plan.

I was wrong. The thing is horrible. It might be fine for hunting eland in tall grass but it isn't a shooting aid for 3-600 yard targets.

The only reason I'm looking at tripods is because it seems to be a basic tool to aid one in stable shooting when one can't plant oneself on the deck. I'm looking at it as a learning aid, not an addition to my hunting gear. Does that makes sense?

 

[MarshallDodge]

I'm a little confused. Are you trying to learn how to shoot long range or how to shoot off a tripod?

Shooting long range isn't necessarily difficult. Things that do make it difficult are an incapable rifle/ammo combination, lack of knowledge when it comes to exterior ballistics, and a shooter who cannot consistently shoot good groups which I would consider under 1" at 100 yards.

A 5x scope is going to add a bit of complexity to the situation, especially past 500 yards, but it can be done.

 

[cliffy110]

I'm a little confused. Are you trying to learn how to shoot long range or how to shoot off a tripod?

Hmmm... so I guess I'm missing something. Maybe I've assumed too much. It appears that a good tripod is essential to learning how to shoot at long ranges. I'm my reading, the Kraft target drill appeared to be a good way to get a baseline of what the rifle and the shooter could accomplish and making the shots from standing and kneeling just isn't going to happen without some form of a rest. That led me to believe that a tripod was an essential part of all of this. I kind of lumped that in with a shooting mat, bags, binoculars and a range finder. If I've overestimated the importance, I'm glad to hear that because these things aren't cheap. LOL

So maybe stop worrying about the Kraft target drill until I'm a bit farther along? Or maybe just stick to prone and sitting because I can do those fairly well without anything else.

 

[phlegethon]

There is no reason to use a tripod for the standing and sitting parts of the Kraft drill. A lot of people do because they have good tripods already and it’s convenient. You can use anything though. Use a stepladder. Use a saw horse.

 

[cliffy110]

There is no reason to use a tripod for the standing and sitting parts of the Kraft drill. A lot of people do because they have good tripods already and it’s convenient. You can use anything though. Use a stepladder. Use a saw horse.

Well that makes more sense. I thought the idea was to use what one would normally have available. I thought about using the bed and tailgate of my truck but thought that was cheating. LOL. That would have changed how that target looks by a fair amount.

Thanks guys. I know these are remedial things for most of you. I am aware that finding good instruction is my main task. I'm glad to hear that I don't need to lay out $800-$1500 for a freakin' gun rest that would never be used in the field.

 

[ma smith]

I'm a little confused. Are you trying to learn how to shoot long range or how to shoot off a tripod?

Shooting long range isn't necessarily difficult. Things that do make it difficult are an incapable rifle/ammo combination, lack of knowledge when it comes to exterior ballistics, and a shooter who cannot consistently shoot good groups which I would consider under 1" at 100 yards.

A 5x scope is going to add a bit of complexity to the situation, especially past 500 yards, but it can be done.

I think he's just trying to learn the Kraft drill, which is an instabiliy exercise. OP just wants to do it using an ultralight rifle. The tripod isn't necessary for the drill, its just a stand-in for the barricade.

edit: post#10 beat me too it

 

[1moaoff]

So 1 question is when you say achieve first round hits at 600yds what do you mean?
On a groundhog
On a coyote
On a what ever size ipsc
On a barn

Define that first and it can change everything.

Learn from basic positions. No tripod!.

A bipod would be most helpful along with a rear bag. If your trying to stay "scouty" get one with lite fill.

And fyi, the reason you got harassed was because you came in kinda hot talking about articles, references, and skill set.

Tell everyone you just want to push what most find normal for your rifle without the other stuff and you will get alot of help. We like to push boundaries!