Forced to switch from Strelok to AB, have questions

[Burdy]

I know I'm late to the party but I've been using Strelok forever and it has served me well, perhaps because I'm so familiar with it. I got a new phone and with Strelok being banned I cannot install it on the new device.

So, I downloaded and paid for AB and am in the painstaking process of transferring over my data. However I have a couple of questions:

#1 AB doesn't seem to have a way to separate my chrono atmospheric conditions from my zero atmospheric conditions. On Strelok, you input your velocity and conditions for your MV and you have separate conditions for your zero. They don't have to be the same. So how does AB reconcile if I zeroed at 32 degrees but my muzzle velocity for the cartridge was taken at 85 degrees? AB doesn't ask me conditions for my MV, so I'm confused.

#2 If you are unable to input multiple MVs at different temps like you can in Strelok how are you getting your MV temp sensitivity #?

#3 There are a few data points I've never used, such as powder temp and atmosphere standard (ICAO or ASM). Not sure what to input here or how to use.

I did run a quick test and trying to duplicate the data I'm getting a HALF MIL difference between the two apps at 800y.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Rillhurst]

As another long time user…Why give up on StreLok?

iMazing is amazing (especially if you still have a device with StreLok installed)
Also free to just move app…

 

[6.5SH]

I know I'm late to the party but I've been using Strelok forever and it has served me well, perhaps because I'm so familiar with it. I got a new phone and with Strelok being banned I cannot install it on the new device.

So, I downloaded and paid for AB and am in the painstaking process of transferring over my data. However I have a couple of questions:

#1 AB doesn't seem to have a way to separate my chrono atmospheric conditions from my zero atmospheric conditions. On Strelok, you input your velocity and conditions for your MV and you have separate conditions for your zero. They don't have to be the same. So how does AB reconcile if I zeroed at 32 degrees but my muzzle velocity for the cartridge was taken at 85 degrees? AB doesn't ask me conditions for my MV, so I'm confused.

#2 If you are unable to input multiple MVs at different temps like you can in Strelok how are you getting your MV temp sensitivity #?

#3 There are a few data points I've never used, such as powder temp and atmosphere standard (ICAO or ASM). Not sure what to input here or how to use.

I did run a quick test and trying to duplicate the data I'm getting a HALF MIL difference between the two apps at 800y.

Any help would be appreciated.

Under the "Edit Ammunition" menu is a "Enable Zero Atmosphere" option.
In the same menu you'd enter the Powder Temp from your chronograph session.

As to the Temp Sensitivity there are different formulas for calculating that, but in AB it is a linear FPS change per degree.
Let's say I had a change of 100 FPS from 60 to 110 degrees F, (100/50=2), the value would be 2 FPS per degree F.

The ICAO and ASM standard needs to be selected to match which standard the bullet maker used to measure the BC. Sierra uses ASM, much older Hornady data is ASM but newer ELD-M is all ICAO. You'll have to look around if not using an entry from the AB library which should have the correct standard selected.

 

[Long Range 338]

Welcome to the party! AB is a great solver albeit best used on a Kestrel but I have the app as well. To answer your questions:

1- You enter your zero atmospheric conditions on the load, not the gun. One of the nicer features of the app is that you can have multiple loads under one gun.

2- Your muzzle velocity sensitivity is the value entered you already mentioned. I was thinking you can enter it under "Ballistic Calibration" but I was mistaken (that appears to be a Kestrel only feature).

AB does require some tweaking to get the best results. Or using the CDMs usually works almost perfectly out of the box.

 

[Burdy]

@6.5SH and @Long Range 338 thanks for the help. I think I am getting there.

My .22LR Trainer was spot on MILs to 300y between both apps.

My .308 16" is only .1 MIL difference at 800y.

For some reason my 13.7" .223 with 73g ELDM is still showing a .5 MIL difference to 800 after triple checking everything. AB requiring less holdover. Not sure on that one.

Just to be clear "powder temp" is my temp when obtaining the chrono data, and then just select enable zero weather and input that data for the conditions when I obtain zero?

@Rillhurst I figured it was time to make the change for better integration with AB loaded range finders and Kestrals. I will say, from a UI perspective, a cartridge selection perspective and a reticle selection perspective, Strelok is well ahead of AB.

 

[6.5SH]

@6.5SH and @Long Range 338 thanks for the help. I think I am getting there.

Just to be clear "powder temp" is my temp when obtaining the chrono data, and then just select enable zero weather and input that data for the conditions when I obtain zero?

Correct, it is assuming that your powder was at the ambient temperature during your chronograph session.
An alternative would be using a quality instant read contact thermometer on the cartridge.
This would again assume that the cartridge had been in that temperature range long enough for the powder to reach the same temperature.

FWIW I'd not rely on the typical "laser" thermometer for measuring cartridge temperature. The laser is for aiming, the sensor is a PIR type and will get overwhelmed by the surrounding surface temps. I ran into this when measuring ammo that had been kept in a cooler and was cold to the touch but the PIR unit read over 100 (it was well over 100 out at the time). Even inserting the base into the recess where the PIR sensor was made no difference.

 

[Burdy]

Correct, it is assuming that your powder was at the ambient temperature during your chronograph session.
An alternative would be using a quality instant read contact thermometer on the cartridge.
This would again assume that the cartridge had been in that temperature range long enough for the powder to reach the same temperature.

FWIW I'd not rely on the typical "laser" thermometer for measuring cartridge temperature. The laser is for aiming, the sensor is a PIR type and will get overwhelmed by the surrounding surface temps. I ran into this when measuring ammo that had been kept in a cooler and was cold to the touch but the PIR unit read over 100 (it was well over 100 out at the time). Even inserting the base into the recess where the PIR sensor was made no difference.

That's very good to know. I don't know that Ill get that involved other than just making sure that when I chrono for data that my cartridges have been in the ambient temperature for long enough to acclimate.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I will add, you shouldn't be using zero atmosphere inputs unless you have a long range zero (Like 300 yards etc). For 50 yard, 100 yard zeros etc you should be leaving this blank (in all solvers AB or not). Your zero shouldn't change with changes in weather or altitude. 100 yards is flat enough for it to not matter. What will change is your muzzle velocity depending on the powder this is what will shift the zero around not the atmospherics of the flight (which is what zero atmosphere is looking at). Its the temperature effecting your muzzle velocity you should be tracking. This is handled by the MV Variation and Powder Temp inputs.

 

[Shooterjoe]

OK...confused here...I was using the Stelok app for a few weeks now ans it went wacko...I zeroed at 100 yards and the app is telling me to go D38.5! What the hell happened...

 

[MK20]

I know I'm late to the party but I've been using Strelok forever and it has served me well, perhaps because I'm so familiar with it. I got a new phone and with Strelok being banned I cannot install it on the new device.

So, I downloaded and paid for AB and am in the painstaking process of transferring over my data. However I have a couple of questions:

#1 AB doesn't seem to have a way to separate my chrono atmospheric conditions from my zero atmospheric conditions. On Strelok, you input your velocity and conditions for your MV and you have separate conditions for your zero. They don't have to be the same. So how does AB reconcile if I zeroed at 32 degrees but my muzzle velocity for the cartridge was taken at 85 degrees? AB doesn't ask me conditions for my MV, so I'm confused.

#2 If you are unable to input multiple MVs at different temps like you can in Strelok how are you getting your MV temp sensitivity #?

#3 There are a few data points I've never used, such as powder temp and atmosphere standard (ICAO or ASM). Not sure what to input here or how to use.

I did run a quick test and trying to duplicate the data I'm getting a HALF MIL difference between the two apps at 800y.

Any help would be appreciated.

I would think you could run a VPN and just re-download.

 

[Shooterjoe]

I would think you could run a VPN and just re-download.

Re-download from where...it's not longer an available app ...thanks...

 

[Burdy]

I will add, you shouldn't be using zero atmosphere inputs unless you have a long range zero (Like 300 yards etc). For 50 yard, 100 yard zeros etc you should be leaving this blank (in all solvers AB or not). Your zero shouldn't change with changes in weather or altitude. 100 yards is flat enough for it to not matter. What will change is your muzzle velocity depending on the powder this is what will shift the zero around not the atmospherics of the flight (which is what zero atmosphere is looking at). Its the temperature effecting your muzzle velocity you should be tracking. This is handled by the MV Variation and Powder Temp inputs.

@DocUSMCRetired thanks for the reply. I think that is where there is some confusion, most likely on my part I assume.
When I record "zeroing weather" like in Strelok, in my mind I am really recording what AB wants to see as "powder temp" while zeroing. Even though "powder temp" is only available in AB under the muzzle velocity/chronoing menu.

If I zero in 35 degree weather, I load those conditions (temp,pressure,humidity) into Strelok, always ensuring my cartridge temp would match the 35 degrees. When I chrono my rifle at 90 degrees, I load those conditions (temp,pressure,humidity) into Strelok, always ensuring my cartridge temp matches the 90 degrees.
Are you saying one of these steps is not necessary, or simply not significant enough to fool with?

I look at all ballistics data recording as an opportunity for tolerance stacking to get out of hand, so I am pretty anal with all inputs as I know when it comes time to do my part, mentally I can rule out anything that makes it the fault of the gun.

 

[wvfarrier]

Re-download from where...it's not longer an available app ...thanks...

Yes it is. Use a VPN from maybe Austria or similar and download it. I know you can because I just did it a week ago

 

[6.5SH]

OK...confused here...I was using the Stelok app for a few weeks now ans it went wacko...I zeroed at 100 yards and the app is telling me to go D38.5! What the hell happened...

Check your environmental inputs and slope angle are correct. Had a friend accidentally set -89 degrees for slope recently which gave some pretty wild output.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

Yes it is. Use a VPN from maybe Austria or similar and download it. I know you can because I just did it a week ago

Just bought and downloaded Strelok from the Samsung Store. Not sure if you have android or not. Strelok isn't on the google play store for android, but it is still available to purchase from the Samsung store if you have a Samsung android. Just FYI.

 

[Shooterjoe]

Just bought and downloaded Strelok from the Samsung Store. Not sure if you have android or not. Strelok isn't on the google play store for android, but it is still available to purchase from the Samsung store if you have a Samsung android. Just FYI.

I am a android phone...no Samsung Stores in Las Vegas, NV

 

[bigdaddydmd]

Samsung store is a digital store you buy apps at on your phone. Like the Google Play store. It is accessible if you have a Samsung. It should be a preloaded app on your Samsung device.

 

[Burdy]

How do you "back into" the proper BC/DOPE/VELOCITY, however you want to do it with AB? With Strelok it was fairly easy.
I went to the range yesterday using AB data from my known muzzle velocity from my 13.7" .223 running 73 ELDMs (2354 fps avg). Everything was good out to 300y, then I made a jump to 600 and was low:

I used the SWARO EL Range app to plug in my MV and my actual velocity at 300 yards (1708 fps) to "true" up the ballistics, pushed it to the binos and it gave me the proper extra half MIL:

What I don't know is how to "true up" AB with this same info so that they match. There is a little over a 100 fps difference in what AB has as my 300 yards velocity and the actual velocity. Any help is appreciated.
I must say, I REALLY like these Swaro EL Ranges. They have been spot on. Just wish I could view its data in a table....

 

[LastShot300]

I know I'm late to the party but I've been using Strelok forever and it has served me well, perhaps because I'm so familiar with it. I got a new phone and with Strelok being banned I cannot install it on the new device.

have you tried ChairGun? It's even better designed than Strelok IMHO

 

[Burdy]

have you tried ChairGun? It's even better designed than Strelok IMHO

Dude. Thank you for this, it's fantastic.