Form 1 Suppressor Into Existing Trust?

[rg1911]

Okay, I've searched the web, I've checked the ATF site, and I'm still partially confused. If anyone here has actually had an existing firearms trust and then bought/made a suppressor, I'd like very much to hear how you handled it.

I currently have a trust with family members, who are scattered around the country, listed. I would like to try the Form 1 Suppressor method, primarily for the shorter wait time.

However, if I want to add the suppressor to the existing trust, my understanding is that each person named has to submit fingerprint cards and one or two other pieces of paperwork.

Then I saw this information about a Single Shot Trust here:

Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust

This *appears* to be the way to go.

Does anyone have a personal experience using this method? Is there a hidden "catch?"

Thank you,
Richard

 

[KnowNothing256]

If you're trying to ease the headache of having all the RPs submit a RPQ and fingerprint card, then a Single Shot doesn't get you there unless you wait until after getting your tax stamp to add them to the trust.

I originally did a Single Shot for my first can, but when I bought my second I realized that the way it's written means you can't add any other items to the trust. So, I updated the trust using Gun Trust Guru, had the new version notarized, then submitted that trust on my second can's paperwork.

If you want the ease of using Silencer Shop, they offer a better trust for adding stuff later, their "NFA Gun Trust" product. All that being said, I don't understand why you wouldn't just file the Form 1 as the trust? There's a check box for it right there. You already have the trust set up, which is half of the headache, and yeah, everyone has to do the paperwork, but that's really not that big of a deal. And then it ends up with all the same benefits of your other NFA items on the trust: everyone can possess them.

 

[alamo5000]

You do it the exact same way you would do an SBR. It's not hard at all and takes about a month to get your stamp back.

Yes, all the people on your trust will need to give info, prints, etc. With everyone having different states of residency that could be complicated if you have a bunch of people.

The single shot trust is simply a brand new trust. If you want your nine brothers to use the suppressor as well you would need to add them to the trust in the future.

 

[pell1203]

A Single Shot Trust only works for one item and only that one item for its entire lifetime. No other NFA items can be added.

As an example, if you have two suppressors, each will have its own individual trust. The nice thing is you can have different additional trustees added to each of the trusts individually once approved. In a Single Shot Trust, only the trustee creating the original trust needs to fill out application questionnaire and provide fingerprints and picture. Once you receive the approval stamp, then you can add additional trustees as you see fit. In my way of thinking, prior to receiving the ATF stamp you won’t have access to the suppressor anyways so it does you no good to name additional trustees from the beginning. Save your future trustees the hassle of providing fingerprints, photos, and so forth.

 

[rg1911]

Thank you all for the information.

My trust pre-dates the implementation of 41F, so I'm the only family member in the fed system. I would prefer to keep them out, in addition to avoiding all the documents I'd have to obtain each time I made/bought an NFA item. (Think in terms of herding cats.) I'm assuming that any changes to the trust, as in adding NFA items, or adding/removing trustees would be subject to the new regulations. (I'll check on that.)

I was planning on making the first Form 1 suppressor as pretty much an inexpensive test of my available tools, ability to do the drilling correctly, and so on. It's looking as though the easiest path is to file as an individual, althpugh I'll take another look at the One Shot. My impression is that 41F converted an easy-to-use system into a quagmire if you have multiple trustees.

Cheers, Richard

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thank you all for the information.

My trust pre-dates the implementation of 41F, so I'm the only family member in the fed system. I would prefer to keep them out, in addition to avoiding all the documents I'd have to obtain each time I made/bought an NFA item. (Think in terms of herding cats.) I'm assuming that any changes to the trust, as in adding NFA items, or adding/removing trustees would be subject to the new regulations. (I'll check on that.)

I was planning on making the first Form 1 suppressor as pretty much an inexpensive test of my available tools, ability to do the drilling correctly, and so on. It's looking as though the easiest path is to file as an individual, althpugh I'll take another look at the One Shot. My impression is that 41F converted an easy-to-use system into a quagmire if you have multiple trustees.

Cheers, Richard

If you think you might go the Form 1 route again, I’d at least look at the “NFA Gun Trust” option from Silencer Shop, the idea of more flexibility down the road appealed to me.

 

[rg1911]

If you think you might go the Form 1 route again, I’d at least look at the “NFA Gun Trust” option from Silencer Shop, the idea of more flexibility down the road appealed to me.

Thank you. I'll have to look into that. I was assuming that if I wasn't buying a silencer from them that I couldn't use their system.

Richard

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thank you. I'll have to look into that. I was assuming that if I wasn't buying a silencer from them that I couldn't use their system.

Richard

You’re welcome! If you can’t use SS, I’m a satisfied customer of Gun Trust Guru, converted my Single Shot using their service, but I believe they sell virgin trusts as well. Create the trust using your intended info for the can, then submit the Form 1.

 

[rg1911]

You’re welcome! If you can’t use SS, I’m a satisfied customer of Gun Trust Guru, converted my Single Shot using their service, but I believe they sell virgin trusts as well. Create the trust using your intended info for the can, then submit the Form 1.

Thank you. That sounds like the way to go. I think I would prefer to have a trust (I'm assuming I can have more than one) at the start rather than moving items into a trust later. It cost me another $200 per NFA item to move my toys into the trust. Ouch.

Cheers, Richard

 

[KnowNothing256]

No restrictions on the number of trusts you can set up, go nuts haha

 

[Joeg26er]

What's the cost of adding people to the Silencer Shop single shot trusts? Does each person have to go through the ATF approval process again? I read the S-shop write up on adding responsible parties to the single shot trust. Once the stamp is issues it does not seem as if one has to have the ATF approve added parties.

 

[pell1203]

What's the cost of adding people to the Silencer Shop single shot trusts? Does each person have to go through the ATF approval process again? I read the S-shop write up on adding responsible parties to the single shot trust. Once the stamp is issues it does not seem as if one has to have the ATF approve added parties.

There is no cost to add trustees to a Single Shot Trust. Two forms required to be filled out. First, the originating trustee fills out a form designating the new trustee which must be notarized. Second, the newly designated trustee fills out a form accepting the designation which must be witnessed and notarized.

That’s all you need. No cost except notary fees if you can’t get the documents notarized for free.

Removing trustees is just as easy. Again two forms. One filled out by the original trust owner naming the trustee being dropped, followed by a second form where the trustee being removed acknowledges the removal. Again, notary fees may apply.

And you are correct, once original approval has been granted, any additional trustees do not need to fill out any ATF paperwork. Just make sure the folks you designate as trustees are not legally otherwise disqualified from handling or possessing NFA items.

 

[Joeg26er]

There is no cost to add trustees to a Single Shot Trust. Two forms required to be filled out. First, the originating trustee fills out a form designating the new trustee which must be notarized. Second, the newly designated trustee fills out a form accepting the designation which must be witnessed and notarized.

That’s all you need. No cost except notary fees if you can’t get the documents notarized for free.

Removing trustees is just as easy. Again two forms. One filled out by the original trust owner naming the trustee being dropped, followed by a second form where the trustee being removed acknowledges the removal. Again, notary fees may apply.

And you are correct, once original approval has been granted, any additional trustees do not need to fill out any ATF paperwork. Just make sure the folks you designate as trustees are not legally otherwise disqualified from handling or possessing NFA items.

Thanks - that seems interesting and more convenient than I thought. I had believed that everyone with access to a suppressor had to pass ATF review etc.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Thanks - that seems interesting and more convenient than I thought. I had believed that everyone with access to a suppressor had to pass ATF review etc.

@pell1203 describes the main reason people choose a trust over an individual application. Being able to add/remove authorized possessors of an NFA at will is basically the whole point, although theoretically there could be some side benefits if, say, somebody came after your assets. In that case, odds are decent that they wouldn’t be able to get the trust assets, because the assets belong to the trust, not any individual person.

Of course, I’m not a lawyer, just spitballing on that hypothetical scenario.

 

[rg1911]

There is no cost to add trustees to a Single Shot Trust. Two forms required to be filled out. First, the originating trustee fills out a form designating the new trustee which must be notarized. Second, the newly designated trustee fills out a form accepting the designation which must be witnessed and notarized.

That’s all you need. No cost except notary fees if you can’t get the documents notarized for free.

Removing trustees is just as easy. Again two forms. One filled out by the original trust owner naming the trustee being dropped, followed by a second form where the trustee being removed acknowledges the removal. Again, notary fees may apply.

And you are correct, once original approval has been granted, any additional trustees do not need to fill out any ATF paperwork. Just make sure the folks you designate as trustees are not legally otherwise disqualified from handling or possessing NFA items.

So it's relatively simple to add and remove trustees from any (or a Single Shot only?) trust.

What is difficult then seems to be adding an item to an existing trust. Each trustee must provide fingerprint cards, photos, etc. Is this correct or am I one-eighty out at 30 knots?

If the above is correct, it seems that a Single Shot trust is the option to use. So I would be the only one having to submit fingerprints, picture, etc. (All over again. And my fingerprint cards, done by a sheriff's office, have been rejected 50-percent of the time.)

Thank you, Richard

 

[rg1911]

Oops. Again read the info about a Single Shot trust on Silencer Shop. It says that this is something offered only by the Silencer Shop, which quite probably means it's used only for items purchased from the Silencer Shop; I could not use this for a Form 1 build.

Bother!

Richard

 

[KnowNothing256]

So it's relatively simple to add and remove trustees from any (or a Single Shot only?) trust.

What is difficult then seems to be adding an item to an existing trust. Each trustee must provide fingerprint cards, photos, etc. Is this correct or am I one-eighty out at 30 knots?

If the above is correct, it seems that a Single Shot trust is the option to use. So I would be the only one having to submit fingerprints, picture, etc. (All over again. And my fingerprint cards, done by a sheriff's office, have been rejected 50-percent of the time.)

Thank you, Richard

No, you have it right, if multiple folks are on the trust then they all have to do the paperwork to add an item, fingerprint cards and RPQ. If you wanted to get around that, you could take everyone off the trust, file to add an item with just yourself on there, then put everyone back, but if you don’t all have access to free notarization, that’s probably more costly and difficult than just doing the RPQ and prints for each person.

Don’t worry about the Single Shot, any competing trust products can be initiated with just the one item, and you don’t have to add items to it later, you can just create new ones for every subsequent NFA item (basically, each one becomes a “Single Shot” trust).

 

[pell1203]

The beauty of a single shot trust is that it CAN ONLY contain a singular NFA item. You put in the application (only applicant provides photo, fingerprints, etc.). Because there are no other potential trustees designated at this time, except for the originator, life is simple.

Next, during the approval period you cannot independently have in your possession the NFA item because you have not been approved, just like any other trust. However, it really does not matter because THIS trust only controls the one item. No other prior, or future, NFA items are affected because this single shot trust only pertains to this singular item which you can only posses once approved.

Later, once approved, you may add/remove any number of trustees without needing to provide photos, fingerprints, and so on.

An added benefit of using single shot trusts is that you can individually specify/control who has access to each of your items since you can choose to add them as a trustee on one trust, but not on any of your others. This may be a useful thing at some point during the life of the trust.

 

[Joeg26er]

Silencer Shop should start selling SBR's and MGs?