I have a Form 4 pending for a Gemtech Outback II. It's at around 3 months so it shouldn't be too much longer but I just found out the the one man FFL that used had a heart attack and is in critical condition. I'm not sure about his recovery prognosis, but if I had to use a another FFL how would I go about doing that? At some point the Form 4 will come back, but the suppressor and the paperwork will go to the FFL that is in the hospital. Any thoughts???
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Suppressors Form 4 question????
- Thread starter johncamino
- Start date
Re: Form 4 question????
There is nothing that you can do (that I know of). He would have to Form 3 it to another dealer and then start the Form 4 process over again.
Is he a 1 man shop?
You can all ways call the NFA (304)616-4500 & see what they say
There is nothing that you can do (that I know of). He would have to Form 3 it to another dealer and then start the Form 4 process over again.
Is he a 1 man shop?
You can all ways call the NFA (304)616-4500 & see what they say
Re: Form 4 question????
I don't know if his wife can and do paperwork, but he operates from his shop in his backyard. I'll wait and see and pray that he makes a full recovery.
I don't know if his wife can and do paperwork, but he operates from his shop in his backyard. I'll wait and see and pray that he makes a full recovery.
Re: Form 4 question????
Wow. That's some bad luck. Hope he makes it. I would call them like KaneK says. There has to be a procedure for this type of issue.
Wow. That's some bad luck. Hope he makes it. I would call them like KaneK says. There has to be a procedure for this type of issue.
Re: Form 4 question????
I may be wrong, but if the form 4 is pending at BATFE, the only thing left is to pick it up when the form gets back to him. There may be a 4473 to do, but that's pretty simple. The can is yours and the FFL is obligated to transfer it to you as quickly as possible. Perhaps his wife will be able to give it to you, but that's all that should happen as far as you're concerned. As for transferring it to another FFL on a form 3 and starting over, that's not gonna happen. Once on form 4, always on form 4. And once it's on form 4 registered to you, it's yours.
ETA: The 4473 may not be so simple, as I am not sure anyone except the FFL can sign their section. But the fact remains, the can is now (once the form 4 gets back) yours. As some have suggested, contact NFA branch as ask them. In my experience with them, they are friendly and very helpful.
I may be wrong, but if the form 4 is pending at BATFE, the only thing left is to pick it up when the form gets back to him. There may be a 4473 to do, but that's pretty simple. The can is yours and the FFL is obligated to transfer it to you as quickly as possible. Perhaps his wife will be able to give it to you, but that's all that should happen as far as you're concerned. As for transferring it to another FFL on a form 3 and starting over, that's not gonna happen. Once on form 4, always on form 4. And once it's on form 4 registered to you, it's yours.
ETA: The 4473 may not be so simple, as I am not sure anyone except the FFL can sign their section. But the fact remains, the can is now (once the form 4 gets back) yours. As some have suggested, contact NFA branch as ask them. In my experience with them, they are friendly and very helpful.
Re: Form 4 question????
Well I just read the obituaries, and he passed away. I'm going to call the NFA and ask the question, and then give it a couple of weeks before I bother the family over this.
Well I just read the obituaries, and he passed away. I'm going to call the NFA and ask the question, and then give it a couple of weeks before I bother the family over this.
Re: Form 4 question????
NFA division already knew about the situation. They are still going to approve the Form 4 but send it to me instead of the deceased dealer. They told me that it would be up to me to get possession from his wife or estate. They did not have an answer about the 4473 which surprised me. They told me that I wasn't the only one affected and that it would be a mess and take time.
NFA division already knew about the situation. They are still going to approve the Form 4 but send it to me instead of the deceased dealer. They told me that it would be up to me to get possession from his wife or estate. They did not have an answer about the 4473 which surprised me. They told me that I wasn't the only one affected and that it would be a mess and take time.
Re: Form 4 question????
I did not fill out a 4473 when I picked up my can. I don't think it is required. Edit 2-27-10 (At least I don't remember filling one out) Maybe I am confusing the 4473 with the background check.
I did not fill out a 4473 when I picked up my can. I don't think it is required. Edit 2-27-10 (At least I don't remember filling one out) Maybe I am confusing the 4473 with the background check.
Re: Form 4 question????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not fill out a 4473 when I picked up my can. I don't think it is required. </div></div>
It's required, no background check is needed, but the 4473 is
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not fill out a 4473 when I picked up my can. I don't think it is required. </div></div>
It's required, no background check is needed, but the 4473 is
Re: Form 4 question????
4473 is required but the NICS is not for a can. They are treated like firearms as far as ATF is concerned.
Little slow on the draw there.
4473 is required but the NICS is not for a can. They are treated like firearms as far as ATF is concerned.
Little slow on the draw there.
Re: Form 4 question????
I little more research into his FFL shows me that the FFL is in both his name and his wife's, so everything might be okay. The SOT that goes with the FFL has the name of the Gun Shop and only list his name. Does any Class 3 dealer out there know if the SOT is for the gun shop or for an individual in the gun shop that pays the tax?
I little more research into his FFL shows me that the FFL is in both his name and his wife's, so everything might be okay. The SOT that goes with the FFL has the name of the Gun Shop and only list his name. Does any Class 3 dealer out there know if the SOT is for the gun shop or for an individual in the gun shop that pays the tax?
Re: Form 4 question????
I am an FFL/SOT and have helped out in this situation before, except in this case the local dealer had to get out of the biz PDQ while there were still transfers pending (long story).
Was the FFL in the name of a corporation or LLC, or was the guy operating as a sole proprietor with his wife registered with the ATF as someone who could handle transfers? If a corp or LLC with the wife as a part-owner of the biz then there's no problem, she can finalize all the transfers and gracefully shut down the biz if she doesn't want to run it by herself. If he was a sole proprietor then things do get sticker, but the ATF does have some sensitivity in these cases and usually lets the executor of the estate finalize transfers and close the business. Sometimes they will ask a local FFL/SOT to lend a hand if the executor is unwilling or uncomfortable closing up the shop.
The SOT is associated with the FFL. If the guy was working as a sole proprietor it's in his name, otherwise it's in the name of the corp or LLC.
You will still have to do a 4473, though if the suppressor is being transferred to you personally (as opposed to a trust or LLC) there will be no call made to NICS. If the wife was a responsible agent for the FFl then she should be familiar with the process.
I am an FFL/SOT and have helped out in this situation before, except in this case the local dealer had to get out of the biz PDQ while there were still transfers pending (long story).
Was the FFL in the name of a corporation or LLC, or was the guy operating as a sole proprietor with his wife registered with the ATF as someone who could handle transfers? If a corp or LLC with the wife as a part-owner of the biz then there's no problem, she can finalize all the transfers and gracefully shut down the biz if she doesn't want to run it by herself. If he was a sole proprietor then things do get sticker, but the ATF does have some sensitivity in these cases and usually lets the executor of the estate finalize transfers and close the business. Sometimes they will ask a local FFL/SOT to lend a hand if the executor is unwilling or uncomfortable closing up the shop.
The SOT is associated with the FFL. If the guy was working as a sole proprietor it's in his name, otherwise it's in the name of the corp or LLC.
You will still have to do a 4473, though if the suppressor is being transferred to you personally (as opposed to a trust or LLC) there will be no call made to NICS. If the wife was a responsible agent for the FFl then she should be familiar with the process.
Re: Form 4 question????
I sent you an email with the FFL/SOT for you to look at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcr229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am an FFL/SOT and have helped out in this situation before, except in this case the local dealer had to get out of the biz PDQ while there were still transfers pending (long story).
Was the FFL in the name of a corporation or LLC, or was the guy operating as a sole proprietor with his wife registered with the ATF as someone who could handle transfers? If a corp or LLC with the wife as a part-owner of the biz then there's no problem, she can finalize all the transfers and gracefully shut down the biz if she doesn't want to run it by herself. If he was a sole proprietor then things do get sticker, but the ATF does have some sensitivity in these cases and usually lets the executor of the estate finalize transfers and close the business. Sometimes they will ask a local FFL/SOT to lend a hand if the executor is unwilling or uncomfortable closing up the shop.
The SOT is associated with the FFL. If the guy was working as a sole proprietor it's in his name, otherwise it's in the name of the corp or LLC.
You will still have to do a 4473, though if the suppressor is being transferred to you personally (as opposed to a trust or LLC) there will be no call made to NICS. If the wife was a responsible agent for the FFl then she should be familiar with the process.
</div></div>
I sent you an email with the FFL/SOT for you to look at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcr229</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am an FFL/SOT and have helped out in this situation before, except in this case the local dealer had to get out of the biz PDQ while there were still transfers pending (long story).
Was the FFL in the name of a corporation or LLC, or was the guy operating as a sole proprietor with his wife registered with the ATF as someone who could handle transfers? If a corp or LLC with the wife as a part-owner of the biz then there's no problem, she can finalize all the transfers and gracefully shut down the biz if she doesn't want to run it by herself. If he was a sole proprietor then things do get sticker, but the ATF does have some sensitivity in these cases and usually lets the executor of the estate finalize transfers and close the business. Sometimes they will ask a local FFL/SOT to lend a hand if the executor is unwilling or uncomfortable closing up the shop.
The SOT is associated with the FFL. If the guy was working as a sole proprietor it's in his name, otherwise it's in the name of the corp or LLC.
You will still have to do a 4473, though if the suppressor is being transferred to you personally (as opposed to a trust or LLC) there will be no call made to NICS. If the wife was a responsible agent for the FFl then she should be familiar with the process.
</div></div>
Re: Form 4 question????
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just picked it up today... it all worked out in the end.
</div></div>
Glad it all worked out for you. Now go shoot & enjoy!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elcam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just picked it up today... it all worked out in the end.
</div></div>
Glad it all worked out for you. Now go shoot & enjoy!
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