Advanced Marksmanship Formula for correcting Elevation on misses

[Senor_Barney]

I've been lucky to start shooting +1K more often, but I've been struggling with by elevation corrections on misses.

Is there a formula (of feature in Kestrel AB) that can tell you an "__ inch/cm miss at ___ Yards/M is __ Mil correction up or down"

I've found a frustratingly long process of trial and error (7.8...nope too low....8.1....nope too high....7.9....nope still too low.....8.0...ah there we go) and I suspect there is a more efficient way to approach this.

I know the formula "0.1mil is 10cm at 1,000m", but that is not what I am looking for. I am not looking at how to range or size targets at known distances.
What I am looking for is how much does a 0.1mil correction (in inches or CM) get me at various distances. In the diagram below, if the Green line is the flight path dialing 8.1mil and the red line is dialing 8.0mil....what is the distance on the target between the Green impact and the Red impact?

Given a lot depends on the BC of my bullet, muzzle velocity, Density Altitude, and other factors I imagine this is something that would be found in my Kestrel.

The reason I ask is because I know for wind it is more or less 1:1 where if you miss left by 0.2 mil you can correct with "hold right 0.2 mil to get on target. But as I understand it, several factors (gravity, BC, density altitude, etc.) preclude the same correction for elevation. If I miss low by 0.2 mil the correction doesn't exactly translate into "dial up 0.2 mil"....or does it?

 

[_Windrider_]

It’s called follow through. You measure your miss with the reticle and correct it with the reticle. No one cares how many inches or feet you missed by. You missed by .4 mils low……well dial up .4 mils. This works at any range because .4 is .4. But .4 is different in inches at every range.

Perfect your fundamentals. Spot your missed and make the correction.

 

[Senor_Barney]

To clarify, if I am impacting 0.4mil low, the correction is simply dial up 0.4 mil (all else equal)? Based on the diagram above, wouldnt that only apply to Drop and not MAX Ord?

Another reason why I might care to know what a 12 inch low miss on paper translates to in elevation correction is because sometimes I shoot long range practices at paper out to 1K. And, I like to analyze my target at home and see how I could correct my shots after the fact (since there isn't always time on the line to do so).

 

[Lowlight]

Those factors you listed don’t matter on correction only estimation of predicted drop.

As noted if you miss by X you dial X the issue with elevation is reading the miss correctly

Look up weaponized math there are no inputs just Dope X (X Factor) = next yard-line data center

 

[Lowlight]

You’re over complicating it

It’s easier than that, what you see is what you get,

 

[_Windrider_]

To clarify, if I am impacting 0.4mil low, the correction is simply dial up 0.4 mil (all else equal)? Based on the diagram above, wouldnt that only apply to Drop and not MAX Ord?

Another reason why I might care to know what a 12 inch low miss on paper translates to in elevation correction is because sometimes I shoot long range practices at paper out to 1K. And, I like to analyze my target at home and see how I could correct my shots after the fact (since there isn't always time on the line to do so).

But you can’t see inches in your scope. The only thing that matters is POA and POI. If they are different you adjust by the difference observed with reticle and shoot.

When you get home you can figure out the inches of that matters to you, but on the line it matters not. And if your spotter is telling you missed by 6 inches left he’s full of shit

That reticle is a highly calibrated measuring device. It’s accurate at any range.

 

[Im2bent]

Also keep in mind ffp vs sfp scopes. FFp you are good at any magnification SFP you are only accurate at the magnification the manufacturer specified.

 

[Aftermath]

Just use the ruler you are looking at when you view the reticle. Oops, missed it by 3 little marks over and 5 little marks down. Make THAT correction. Done. This works with FFP, SFP, MIL, MOA, IPHY, Cubits....it works for every caliber and it works at all distances.

 

[Baron23]

Cubits

haha...wonder how many will get that reference. Good one.

and not MAX Ord?

And why do you give a crap about max ordnance? I believe your concern should be only about point of impact. Right?

 

[Mike Casselton]

haha...wonder how many will get that reference. Good one.


And why do you give a crap about max ordnance? I believe your concern should be only about point of impact. Right?

Too much reading and watching Ewe Toob videos.
Newer shooters jump into the rabbit hole of learning without any understanding of what they need to learn.

Complicating a pushup...

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Just use the ruler you are looking at when you view the reticle. Oops, missed it by 3 little marks over and 5 little marks down. Make THAT correction. Done. This works with FFP, SFP, MIL, MOA, IPHY, Cubits....it works for every caliber and it works at all distances.

Nice job on the cubits

 

[kopcicle]

To clarify, if I am impacting 0.4mil low, the correction is simply dial up 0.4 mil

dial up .6 , come back .2 .
Not many are going to get this and I'll probably get roasted but ...

 

[bax]

dial up .6 , come back .2 .
Not many are going to get this and I'll probably get roasted but ...

yeah well maybe. It depends on why you were four tenths low. If it was you, then dialing four tenths up and doing a better job on fundamental will results in hitting ... four tenths high. If your load is good and the gun can shoot to plus or minus a tenth and you are shooting good data at a range you know and you still hit four tenths low - dude, it was you. Don't change anything. Just focus on your fundamentals and take the next shot. Adding bullets to a group will not ever make it smaller. Don't chase impacts - perfect your natural point of aim, sight picture, grip, trigger pull, and recoil management.

I have a personal failing (actually I have MANY failings, this is the one that applies to shooting) - I don't always pull the gun into my shoulder the same. With different pressure, I get vertical. When I focus on pulling the gun in where it belongs I can hold a good as a tenth of vertical - impacts make a straight line on the steel. And when I don't hold a tenth - it is probably me. I check the brass and look to see if there was a condition change but I know.

 

[kopcicle]

yeah well maybe. It depends on why you were four tenths low. If it was you, then dialing four tenths up and doing a better job on fundamental will results in hitting ... four tenths high. If your load is good and the gun can shoot to plus or minus a tenth and you are shooting good data at a range you know and you still hit four tenths low - dude, it was you. Don't change anything. Just focus on your fundamentals and take the next shot. Adding bullets to a group will not ever make it smaller. Don't chase impacts - perfect your natural point of aim, sight picture, grip, trigger pull, and recoil management.

I have a personal failing (actually I have MANY failings, this is the one that applies to shooting) - I don't always pull the gun into my shoulder the same. With different pressure, I get vertical. When I focus on pulling the gun in where it belongs I can hold a good as a tenth of vertical - impacts make a straight line on the steel. And when I don't hold a tenth - it is probably me. I check the brass and look to see if there was a condition change but I know.

I was reacting to a "dope in the scope" issue. Most quality scopes will track on compression or clockwise but on release or counterclockwise, not so much. The issue is a bit like machining on a late or a mill, keeping all your clearance or slop on one side. The reason I stated up 6, down 2 was assuming that the 4 necessary is better arrived at by going past 4 and coming back to it. So, purely a mechanical observation.

>Adding bullets to a group will not ever make it smaller. Don't chase impacts - perfect your natural point of aim, sight picture, grip, trigger pull, and recoil management.<

Couldn't agree more. It took me years to perfect repetitive let alone cold bore shots at distance. Once the dope was in the scope the rest was up to me.

@bax Really good observations in any case

 

[JAS-SH]

Simple. At 100 yards 1 mil is 3.6 inches and .1 mil is .36 of an inch. So, times ten (1000 yards) 1 mil is 36 inches, and .1 mil - 1 click on the scope at 1000 yards is 3.6 inches.

People get confused because using the Mil system also says that at 1000 meters, 1 mil is 1 meter or 39-inches and change, and then they ask themselves how can that be? What people forget is that 1000 meters equals 1093 yards, and a 1-meter target is considerably bigger as well (an extra 7-inches in diameter).

Also, shooting at paper at 1000 yards it is practically impossible to see a bullet hole through a scope unless conditions are more than perfect. I know I can't see my 6mm impacts on paper at 600 yards in no mirage conditions through my Vortex Razor scope. That makes corrections based on the previous shot impossible. People here are thinking about shooting steel, which makes it much, much easier to see impacts....

 

[bax]

I was reacting to a "dope in the scope"

Nope, we got it. In the distant past, was that called "lash"? Really easy to see on a lathe when the cross-slide threads are worn.

regarding: "is there a formula" - your scope is an aiming device. Assuming a first-focal-plane scope or a 2ff set correctly, if your impacts are five tenths low, add five tenths to the scope elevation. That's it.

Be glad you have a mil/mil scope - you can measure the mils in the scope and dial using the mils on the turret. Imagine a scope with mil reticle and MOA turrets - you measure mils with the reticle then convert mils to MOA (mils times 3.43 = MOA) then dial. 0.5 times 3.43 equals 1.71 MOA so dial up 7 clicks. I used a calculator, I am warm and dry, I got a good nights sleep, I'm not hurt hungry or sick, and no one is shooting at me. You CAN do it but it is not ideal.