Forster Co Ax the right step for my knowledge/situation?

[Pester]

Hello folks,
There are a couple of similar threads here regarding the best press that I did not want to hijack. My goals are about the same however my circumstances are a bit different so maybe you can help me on two fronts.

Background: I am looking to load 308, 223, 45acp, and 9mm with most of my loading being the 45 and 9mm(the wife only shoots hand guns). In reading the threads here, along with my budget and my knowledge, starting with a single stage press makes sense to me. My plan would be to start there loading 45acp, as I have enough 308/223 to shoot this year, with the thinking that, as I learn more and get more $ saved I would dedicate the single stage for my 308/223 loading and then get a progressive for the pistol ammo.

1. Now to add some complexity to this a bit....I got over two 5 gallon buckets of 45 acp brass that I have sorted by primer size and have removed any nickel/bad cases. I am in the process of cleaning those cases and want to start reloading some of the 13,000 cases I have sorted. Does it make sense for me to get a separate a tool to remove the primers and then move on to loading? I am patient and willing to learn in stages so I am interested in how folks with experience would approach this.

2. After reading the comments here I was looking at the Forster Co Ax as my first press but then I read a couple of reviews(see excerpts and link below) that indicate it might be too complex for a beginner to use. Is the Forster Co Ax a good place to start based on my situation where I am looking to load 45 and then dedicate the press to loading only rifle rounds? Is there a better choice? I assume I can move the dies from a single stage to a progressive later.


"If you are a beginner, you’d probably be better off building from a less expensive base of tools, then moving to the Co-Ax when you’re “ready” in terms of having the ancillary tools most reloaders require. In addition, you won’t appreciate the difference until you’re “ready” when it comes to both your shooting and ammunition reloading techniques; i.e., when the differences will make a difference. If you’ve been reloading for awhile and are ‘ready,’ it may be the ‘best’ single stage reloading press on the market; at least I can’t think of any that are ‘better.’" http://www.epinions.com/review/Forster_Co_Ax_Reloading_Press_epi/content_486908202628



Thanks...

 

[wburke2010]

I tried reloading 45 acp on my single stage press once and it was the last time I will do it. I think there are too many steps to do with a single stage. If I was going to reload as much pistol rounds as you are I would look at getting a progressive press first then when you are ready to reload the rifle get a single stage press. For me with how much time it takes to reload pistol with a single stage I would have rather just continued to buy loaded ammo.

Edited to add: There are many people that load quality ammo with a dillion progressive for 223 and 308. If I were in your shoes, I would be buying a dillion.

Walter

 

[P7id10t]

+1 to using a progressive. Where do you live?
If you wrench on cars, you can understand how to operate a progressive.

If you're close to PDX I'd be happy to show you when I have a window of time.

 

[wildfowler]

I bought a Dillon 550 when I wanted to get started loading 45 automatic. Just read and understand the directions and watch some of the videos if you're having trouble setting up a particular stage of the machine. With supplies being difficult to obtain these days, I don't think you're going to be a will to do a lot of trial and error load development for your handgun anyway.

I bought my co-ax press when I wanted to get started loading for a rifle. I have used the single stage press to load pistol ammo on, but it's pretty laborious. I don't understand what could be overly complex about the co-ax in general. I think this could be overblown?

Just my two sense.

 

[KYpatriot]

You can get into a hornady lock n load progressive for not too much money. If you are going to load 12000 45acp the cost of the press is almost an afterthought. Get on the backorder lists now for shellplates and dies.

The Co-ax is a great press, there is no reason not to buy one for precision work. The Forster design is not only not complicated, it is actually easier to use.

 

[fish30114]

You can get into a hornady lock n load progressive for not too much money. If you are going to load 12000 45acp the cost of the press is almost an afterthought. Get on the backorder lists now for shellplates and dies.

The Co-ax is a great press, there is no reason not to buy one for precision work. The Forster design is NOT only not complicated, it is actually easier to use.

edited to add emphasis

I agree with this and the other posts that suggest a progressive for bulk pistol reloading.-IMO Dillon is the benchmark for progressives. A CoAx for single stage/precision and a Dillon for bulk pistol is the deal!

 

[InTraining]

Good information above. I too started loading with a Co-Ax (first press) for rifle cartridges. Read everything I could before making the purchase, very happy with it. Slowly moving to a Dillon 550 for handgun cartridges, still waiting on parts for it.

 

[Continuum]

I own a Hornady LNL progressive AND a Forster Co-Ax. Best combo ever! I bought the Hornady after loading pistol on the Forster for a little bit, I quickly got tired of pulling the handle all those times. A Hornady with the Inline Fabrication handle is nice, and a lee carbide die set but replacing the dumb lee expander with a Lyman m expander is also very nice on it! The Forster is superior, maybe my single most prized possession of reloading equipment! It is wonderful for smaller batches of match ammo.

 

[Pester]

Thanks and I think there are a couple of progressives I would be interested in with Dillon being at the top of the list.

The reasons I have in my head for not going that way are:
1. I am a novice and wonder if there might not be too many things happening at once on the progressive and I miss something
2. The Dillon is at least 2 months out for delivery and I am running short on 45acp
3. I think I could learn how each step works more easily on a single stage since I would focus on one step at a time but maybe I am over thinking it. At least it seems like I could get the Forster now and start to learn.
4. Not sure I can afford the Dillon over the next 4 months and if they are still 2 months out when I go to order that may mean I am not reloading and learning for a while.

Thanks for all the advice. I am a bit stuck so the help is great to get.

 

[RyeDaddy]

I still only own a Forster CoAx, it was my first press. It's been fantastic and easy to use for precision rifle.

As others have said, single stage is a PITA for large amounts of ammo like you'd go through in a semiauto handgun. Even with the fast die changes it takes forever to make a couple hundred rounds. Luckily I don't shoot much handgun.

I've used a friend's Dillon for handgun and 223 and although it is more complex to set up it's also WAY faster once you've got it going, and as such it doesn't seem as tedious. Like was said earlier, if you can wrench on a car you can set up a Dillon, and if my main goal was handgun I would go for a progressive.

With supplies in short supply you may not be able to get enough to get going on 45 acp? I don't know because I haven't bought pistol powder or primers in 2 years. If you can't get many supplies it may make more sense to start with the Forster, it's a perfect 1st press. It's a cheaper up front investment and I believe if you're going to be loading precision rifle at some point you'll want a single stage anyway. 2 months from now when the Dillon would come in the whole situation may look completely different, so take my thoughts for what you paid for them, but there's nothing wrong with starting on a Forster.

 

[Continuum]

For learning on a progressive it is a matter of one step at a time (one station at a time). It is merely 4 or 5 single stage presses combined with complex mechanisms, but nothing too hard to get a handle on after watching how it works very slowly.

For pistol it is more straightforward. Die/station #1 pokes the used primer out AND smashes the brass case into a diameter smaller than the bullet diameter. The next stage (downstroke on the hornady) has a ramrod push a new primer in the case from below. Die/stage 2 is an expander die that makes the edge of the case mouth slightly larger than bullet diameter so that you can insert a new bullet in easily later. The next stage is to drop the powder in (very important step for single and progressive reloading). The next step is to insert and seat the bullet, easy enough. The next step is optional but generally a good idea, it is to crimp the case mouth (oversized in stage 2) to back normal. A taper crimp die or lee factory crimp die is what you'd want for jacketed bullets. The lee factory crimp die has a carbide ring inside of it that when the case enters the die this ring ensures the case is not larger than chamber diameter.

So the KEY to setting up and using a progressive is to go very very slow at first. Also if you get carbide dies for pistol they will not need to be lubricated prior to reloading. For rifle it is very necessary to lubricate.

Two lessons I learned the hard way is for rifle, to get a headspace case gauge and learn to measure your case head to shoulder length (headspace). Also to NOT use the lee reloading suggestions for powder charges. They are too hot for some loads.

Also, midwayusa has the Forster co-ax back ordered out to July! So if u could get one sooner than 2 months the awesome!

 

[wburke2010]

If you can afford the dillion I would order one now. It will not be harder to learn on one than a single stage. You can just set up one stage at a time and go slow until you get the hang of it. With that much pistol the dillion will be worth its weight in gold.

Walter

 

[afrancke]

Get both now and practice on your Co-Ax until you've mastered the various steps you'd like - then you'll know exactly how to set up your Dillon well (at least as far as the dies go). Or any other single stage press - you get the idea. You'll want one anyway for precision rifle, even though you will absolutely not be going back to do any pistol loading on it once you set your Dillon up.

There is nothing terribly complicated about the Co-Ax - quite the opposite - although fair warning: it is a bit hokey when switching the shellholder jaws from large base to small base brass (and vice-versa). You will develop a technique for swapping these without losing the springs - or you will go mad. One or the other.

 

[korykhunter]

I started with Dillon 550 almost 20 years ago and given your situation I would recommend the same. Don't forget to take your time ask lots of questions and read as much as you can before starting.

 

[Genius.]

If you want to get the hang of reloading and don't want to wait for a Dillon, check out the Lee Classic Turret press.
Loading 45 in any volume on a single stage will suck.

It's no Dillon, but it beats a single stage. Then when you are ready to upgrade to a Dillon you should have no troubles selling the Lee.

 

[stingrayguy]

I run the Lee 4 hole turret press for plinking stuff, and also own the redding T-7 for the more precision rounds, you can run it pretty quick...worth a look!

 

[tctlrld]

Single stage is a great way to learn. While it's perfect for 308 precision rounds it will get tedious real fast doing something like 9mm. (Just think of your typical firing schedule with 9mm vs 308)
As far as single stage presses the Co-Ax is supposed to be one of, if not THE best.

 

[Sealhunter]

I have nothing against progressives, but let me add this; I still use my lnl classic for pistols. I just got 1k rounds from gpz today at 3pm when the mail ran. It's already all deprimed, sized, cleaned, and about 30% are expanded. While I agree it won't be fun doing 13k rounds up front, when is the last time you shot 13k .45 in a single range trip? The single stage is a great way to learn and see every aspect of your rounds, progressives are great, once you are done learning, but I wouldn't give my daughter the keys to my cbr1000 for her driving test. I can't speak for the co-ax, as I haven't used it, but the LnL has more than payed for itself and supplies (500 free bullets? Fuck yes!) the primer feed and extra bushings (for other calibers) would be the only thing I'd add. I also bought an extra shell holder for 9mm and .223 so when I get bored I can sit inside and prime with the hand primer

 

[msiebert]

"I don't understand what could be overly complex about the co-ax in general. I think this could be overblown?"

I dont either...further more, that aint all that's "overblown" about the Co-ax press...it sounds like the OP has been told that the Co-ax press is somehow better or more accurate or will magically produce better ammo. I have one and have yet to see anything better or easier than any other single stage press. It is made different and sets up a little different but beyond simply being different I find it no better at all. It sizes cases and seats bullets...with the same dies any other press uses and I am unable to discern work done on the Co-ax from work done on any of my other presses. Dont get me wrong, I like it fine and I like Bonanza/Forster stuff, I own alot of it....it just takes more than a high price tag and a different design to make me a die hard fanboy.

 

[Joey Dean]

My current progressive is a Dillon 650. One of the things I truly like about it is that I have a toolhead, with a dedicated powder measure, for everything I reload. Pull two pins, slide in a new head, throw a few powder charges to verify nothing has gotten bumped or moved, and then go to town making ammo.

I reload some of my rifle loads on an old Rockchucker I have had since back in the 70's. For the way I shoot and what I shoot there is not a lot of difference in my single stage vs. progressive reloads. I am talking .10 MOA or less and I do not shoot well enough to say that it is just not me doing that on any given day. Huge difference for a High Power guy. For a 300 yd deer and pig hunter like me that is just not a big deal.

 

[Pester]

Thanks folks.

To clarify....its not my goal to reload all the pistol rounds with a single stage press. I was thinking it would be easier for me to learn on a single stage so I can do each step a number of times and go to a progressive for the majority of my pistol rounds once I have the individual stages down.

I would then use the single stage for my 308/223 rounds.

My concern regarding the Forster being too complex, as a first press came, from a couple of reviews (see my original post). Sounds like the feedback here is that its not any different and it would be fine as a first press.

Predictably, the store that had a Forster avail has now sold out while I did my research.....

Thanks again....

 

[afrancke]

The Co-Ax is absolutely a great first press. I'm glad my first was a Co-Ax, and yes, you are correct in that it will be very straightforward to learn how to load anything step by step on it before moving to progressive. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Huskerhunter]

+1 on the Co-Ax for precision and Dillon for handgun and mass production. I'm lucky that I have a friend who runs the Dillon for our handgun needs. I've bought a couple of tool head setups for it. I like my Co-Ax but any well built in line single stage will do the job. Good dies and knowing how to adjust them is critical. Never sorry I bit the bullet on the Co-Ax!

 

[Pester]

The good news is I have a Forster co ax on its way soon. Now I need to get some dies and I am looking for recommendations on 2 things: is my list of required dies correct and any recommendations on who would have the best die for each application(yep...I know...its subjective but your experience in this is better than mine)

1. Deprime and sizing die
2. Expanding and/or Powder feed die
3. Seating die
4. Crimping die

Lastly, thoughts on best powder measurer?

Thanks!

 

[Continuum]

The good news is I have a Forster co ax on its way soon. Now I need to get some dies and I am looking for recommendations on 2 things: is my list of required dies correct and any recommendations on who would have the best die for each application(yep...I know...its subjective but your experience in this is better than mine)

<b>For rifle (223 namely) I find the best to be (and ones that I use) :</b>
1. Deprime and sizing die: <b> Lee Collet Neck Sizing die + Redding body die </b>
2. Expanding and/or Powder feed die: <b> Lyman m expander die (optional) </b>
3. Seating die: <b> Forster Benchrest Seater (or Ultra Micrometer as a more expensive option) (or Redding Competition Micrometer seating die as an expensive alternative) </b>
4. Crimping die: <b> Lee Factory crimp die </b>

Lastly, thoughts on best powder measurer?
<b> I only have used two different ones, the $70 Hornady Lock 'n Load measure that comes with the progressive press, and the $20 Lee Perfect Powder measure. The Hornady, after being properly degreased, holds about 0.1gr with spherical and flake powders and doesn't leak at all. I have not tried extruded powders through it. The Lee one works, and also holds about 0.1gr with spherical and flake powders, and also very good on extruded. It does leak spherical powders all over the place and makes a mess. I made a cardboard baffle for it that may have aided in its accuracy. So I used the Lee for match ammo made with the co-ax and also hand trickled the charges, and used the hornady measure on the hornady press. As for the best, I don't know, but some may argue Redding BR or Harrell or an auto trickler like the Hornady, RCBS or especially the Prometheus, none of which I have ever used. </B>

 

[Continuum]

The good news is I have a Forster co ax on its way soon. Now I need to get some dies and I am looking for recommendations on 2 things: is my list of required dies correct and any recommendations on who would have the best die for each application(yep...I know...its subjective but your experience in this is better than mine)

<b> For pistol, I use: </b>
1. Deprime and sizing die: <b> Lee carbide sizer die (I'm sure the other brands are just as good or better, especially Redding, as long as they are carbide dies) </b>
2. Expanding and/or Powder feed die: <b> Hands down, the best I find is the Lyman m expander. But if you need the expander die to also let powder through, then I don't know, the Dillon one for a Dillon press I guess) </b>
3. Seating die: <b> I use the lee seater, its ok, but the best I think would be the Redding Competition Micrometer seater </b>
4. Crimping die: <b> I use the Lee factor crimp die for all my pistol rounds, it works fine when set up properly </b>

Lastly, thoughts on best powder measurer?

 

[Continuum]

And congrats on getting the Forster co-ax! That is such a wonderful press. I also forgot to bring up this seemingly unbiased scientific-type review that helped me decide among some of the progressive press options. I went with the Hornady.

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

 

[Pester]

Thanks JC. I will look at those you recommend and I will read the review for when I have money to get the progressive. Thanks to the folks here I have powder on the way so I can start to reload as soon as I get the dies and finish reading......Dang there is a lot of reading to do to feel comfortable.....