Forster shoulder bump die cannot bump

[Bronden]

Hi everyone.

I have bought two forster bump dies, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6 Creedmoor.
The bushing is adjusted with a little float inside as in the manual.
If i adjust the die to the shellholder as pr manual im missing 2-3 mm of travle before the nect is fully sized, there is no way to get the die low enough over the case to actually bump it.
I control the bump using the Wilsons case gauge.

Does anyone else have this issue. ?

I have had a shellhoulder turned down to absolut minimum and that has allowed me to bump the 6.5. But the 6, needs to go every lower.
Would it even be possible to take off the Die or is the steel hardend.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...ing/bushing-bump-neck-bench-rest-sizing-dies/

 

[MarinePMI]

Ummm...typically a "bump" die does NOT size the neck at all. Only the shoulder/body.

In this case, with a bushing, I would guess they are supposed to (why isn't this just called a small base bushing die?). Are you sure you have the bushing inserted with the correct side down?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Can you post up some pictures?

The die is traveling enough to bump the shoulder, but it is not sizing all of the neck, correct?

How much play is in the bushing? Too much would cause the problem you're seeing, but it would have to be way too much to cause 2-3mm of untouched neck.

 

[spife7980]

I agree that forster has a dumb naming convention in that this is just a normal full length bushing die but I read it as he can’t bump the shoulder however he can see by the neck sizing done, relative to the 6.5 that does work, that he should have a lot more travel downward in the 6 die.

I would call forster and talk to them and send in a few pieces of fired brass so that they can see exactly how much they should take off the die.

You can also sand the shell holders down yourself but I would rather have the die repaired by the manufacturer than have to remember to use a certain special shell holder.

 

[Bronden]

The die does not bump the shoulders. And the neck is only sized about 90% down with the die in the lowest position.

 

[Bronden]

I agree that forster has a dumb naming convention in that this is just a normal full length bushing die but I read it as he can’t bump the shoulder however he can see by the neck sizing done, relative to the 6.5 that does work, that he should have a lot more travel downward in the 6 die.

I would call forster and talk to them and send in a few pieces of fired brass so that they can see exactly how much they should take off the die.

You can also sand the shell holders down yourself but I would rather have the die repaired by the manufacturer than have to remember to use a certain special shell holder.

I did have my gunsmith to turn down the shellholder as much as possible. This was the only way to get the die working. This dies is a neck sizer with shoulder bump. But the body is just to long. So i guess it will only work with their own press I hope my smith can turn down the die body 1-2 mm. so i get enough play.

 

[Bronden]

Can you post up some pictures?

The die is traveling enough to bump the shoulder, but it is not sizing all of the neck, correct?

How much play is in the bushing? Too much would cause the problem you're seeing, but it would have to be way too much to cause 2-3mm of untouched neck.

No it only neck sizes parcially. It cannot go fare enough down to bump. Only with my custom grinded shellholder is it possible. But the 6mm needs to go evern further down. So that is why i asked if others have the same issues.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Ummm...typically a "bump" die does NOT size the neck at all. Only the shoulder/body.

In this case, with a bushing, I would guess they are supposed to (why isn't this just called a small base bushing die?). Are you sure you have the bushing inserted with the correct side down?

I use L.E. Wilson dies almost exclusively. It wasn't until years after I bought my first neck resizer die that I found out the the neck sizing buttons are intentionally made with tapers. There is definitely a "top" and a "bottom" to the bushing. I always install my bushings upside down (bottom of the bushing oriented up), so that I get consistent neck sizing/tension and not a taper.

 

[lash]

Are you wanting to bump the shoulder? The bushing is adjustable according to the link you provided:

PARTIAL NECK SIZING
You can adjust the bushing to allow partial case neck sizing, allowing the unsized section to better align the cartridge in the rifle chamber.

Also, you say that you are controlling the shoulder based on a Wilson’s case gage. Have you measured the headspace needed for your chamber? Do you NEED to bump the shoulder at this point?

 

[Threadcutter308]

Ummm, bye the bye....

Have you checked to make sure that the extractor on your bolt isn't hacking up and leaving outboard burrs on the heads of your brass ? I have a .223 action from a very, very reputable manufacturer, but the extractor had edges on it that were razor sharp. At first, I thought I had a hell of a headspace problem when dropping fired brass into the Wilson case gauge. The brass was hanging up, well above where the head should have dropped completely into the die. I finally figured out that the extractor was creating burrs on the head of the brass and that was the reason the brass was not dropping fully into the Wilson case gauge. For giggles, I sanded down the burrs on the brass heads and they dropped right into the case gauge. That was the problem. I pulled the extractor and went over it with crocus cloth and a Cratex wheel. Problem solved, no more burrs.

From your description, it sounds like you have moved your die down far beyond what would be normal for what would be expected to be "normal" shoulder bumping.

 

[Bronden]

I use L.E. Wilson dies almost exclusively. It wasn't until years after I bought my first neck resizer die that I found out the the neck sizing buttons are intentionally made with tapers. There is definitely a "top" and a "bottom" to the bushing. I always install my bushings upside down (bottom of the bushing oriented up), so that I get consistent neck sizing/tension and not a taper.

On forester dies its easy to see as the one with the camfer has to point down.. Ill have a look at Wilsons dies.

 

[Bronden]

Ummm, bye the bye....

Have you checked to make sure that the extractor on your bolt isn't hacking up and leaving outboard burrs on the heads of your brass ? I have a .223 action from a very, very reputable manufacturer, but the extractor had edges on it that were razor sharp. At first, I thought I had a hell of a headspace problem when dropping fired brass into the Wilson case gauge. The brass was hanging up, well above where the head should have dropped completely into the die. I finally figured out that the extractor was creating burrs on the head of the brass and that was the reason the brass was not dropping fully into the Wilson case gauge. For giggles, I sanded down the burrs on the brass heads and they dropped right into the case gauge. That was the problem. I pulled the extractor and went over it with crocus cloth and a Cratex wheel. Problem solved, no more burrs.

From your description, it sounds like you have moved your die down far beyond what would be normal for what would be expected to be "normal" shoulder bumping.

Ill have a look!. I mark the side with black inc pen. Then i can trace how fare down the bushing is sizing the neck and also i have colored the sholders, and its very easy to see if it has contact. Using the Wilsons case gage i first tried with standard shellholder and the die down to touch the holder as described in the manual but i could only see the black marking beeing touched 90% down with only the smallest play inside for the bushing. And nothing on the shoulders.
Then i tried with a little camover, not much difference.
Then had my gun smith grind down the shellhoulder. That made it posible to get the entire neck sized and the shoulder bumped so the case would go just under max SAAMI on the gauge.

I find it very very strange that this is an issue. The Forester press does have a very very low universal shellholder. So i am wondering if this is standard for this product. In that case they need to tell people or send a shellholder with the product.

 

[Bronden]

Are you wanting to bump the shoulder? The bushing is adjustable according to the link you provided:

PARTIAL NECK SIZING
You can adjust the bushing to allow partial case neck sizing, allowing the unsized section to better align the cartridge in the rifle chamber.

Also, you say that you are controlling the shoulder based on a Wilson’s case gage. Have you measured the headspace needed for your chamber? Do you NEED to bump the shoulder at this point?

Yes I want the entire neck to be sized, therefore i have left only the smallest play for the bushing. Even with the smallest play the die will not go fare enough down over the case to fully size the neck.

I have measued the headspace, and i need to be just under max saami. I loaded 200 rounds just before i had the shellholder made, as it could chamber them, but it was to tight. Need a little room for dirt, as this is my PRS rifle.

Oh and yes the 6mm die does the same thing.

 

[lash]

Yes I want the entire neck to be sized, therefore i have left only the smallest play for the bushing. Even with the smallest play the die will not go fare enough down over the case to fully size the neck.

I have measued the headspace, and i need to be just under max saami. I loaded 200 rounds just before i had the shellholder made, as it could chamber them, but it was to tight. Need a little room for dirt, as this is my PRS rifle.

Oh and yes the 6mm die does the same thing.

Honestly, I had a bit of an issue with my Forster die in .260. I finally called and then sent the die in with 3 fired cases. I asked them to give me more bump on the shoulder. They did do it, but told me that they had no problem getting the headspace I needed with my die and using their lube. They provided me with a sample of their lube.

I got my ground down die back and tried their lube. It worked. But so did my Imperial sizing wax, now.

Point being. Contact Forster and send it to them with three deprived fired casings and tell them what you want. They will do it for free.

Oh yeah. Use enough lube.

 

[Bronden]

Honestly, I had a bit of an issue with my Forster die in .260. I finally called and then sent the die in with 3 fired cases. I asked them to give me more bump on the shoulder. They did do it, but told me that they had no problem getting the headspace I needed with my die and using their lube. They provided me with a sample of their lube.

I got my ground down die back and tried their lube. It worked. But so did my Imperial sizing wax, now.

Point being. Contact Forster and send it to them with three deprived fired casings and tell them what you want. They will do it for free.

Oh yeah. Use enough lube.

I might need to ship it overseas to them then.
What press did they use to tjek it ? What press do you have. ?
Im pretty sure that the shellholder on the Forester presses are super thin. So it not an issue on that press, the die can go much further down over the case in that press.

 

[lash]

Those are good questions. I didn’t ask them what press they used, but assumed that they used a Forster press. It only makes sense.

My press, on the other hand, is a very old Hollywood press. Big and solid as a rock, but not fast.
Something like this:

 

[bax]

Yes I want the entire neck to be sized, therefore i have left only the smallest play for the bushing. Even with the smallest play the die will not go fare enough down over the case to fully size the neck.

I have measued the headspace, and i need to be just under max saami. I loaded 200 rounds just before i had the shellholder made, as it could chamber them, but it was to tight. Need a little room for dirt, as this is my PRS rifle.

Oh and yes the 6mm die does the same thing.

There is a reason for leaving 10% of the neck unsized. That section perfectly fits the chamber neck so it aligns the brass and the bullet to the barrel centerline. You don't want that to happen?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Have you tried removing the neck bushing and running your brass through the die without it?

 

[Bronden]

There is a reason for leaving 10% of the neck unsized. That section perfectly fits the chamber neck so it aligns the brass and the bullet to the barrel centerline. You don't want that to happen?

Without using the altered shellholder, i cannot press it so it will fit in the Wilson cage gage, in length.
That is the entire meaning off the shoulder bump i should belive. Neck perfectly sized and the body fitting my chamber. Shoulders set back just a little to allow a little grid and easy closing bolt.

I did not think about the last 10% neck. But i makes very good sens. The fireformed brass body should allign the round perfectly. 10% unsized neck will add even more control using the neck. Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Bronden]

Have you tried removing the neck bushing and running your brass through the die without it?

No i did not try it. But i will and report back. But i cannot see that it will make any other difference than failing to make brass contact.

 

[Bronden]

Those are good questions. I didn’t ask them what press they used, but assumed that they used a Forster press. It only makes sense.

My press, on the other hand, is a very old Hollywood press. Big and solid as a rock, but not fast.
Something like this:

View attachment 6961980

Nice. its almost like RCBS tried to reinvent that. Your press still uses standard shellholders right. ?

 

[lash]

Nice. its almost like RCBS tried to reinvent that. Your press still uses standard shellholders right. ?

Yes, with an adaptor that I bought some years ago. It has such a long stroke that I could reload 50 BMG if I wanted.

 

[bax]

Without using the altered shellholder, i cannot press it so it will fit in the Wilson cage gage, in length.
That is the entire meaning off the shoulder bump i should belive. Neck perfectly sized and the body fitting my chamber. Shoulders set back just a little to allow a little grid and easy closing bolt.

I did not think about the last 10% neck. But i makes very good sens. The fireformed brass body should allign the round perfectly. 10% unsized neck will add even more control using the neck. Thank you for the heads up.

You said that when you use the Forster shoulder bump with the neck sizing die, it doesn't fit into your Wilson case gauge. You might ask Wilson but I think that their gauge assumes that you full-length sized the case. If you did that, the entire case would be SAAMI-size and, I think, would fit into the Wilson gauge. But you aren't doing that.

I use the RCBS case gauges. They measure the base-to-datum line. It is a micrometer for cases and that is probably what you want to do. The RCBS gauge isn't fussy about neck diameter - your 90% sized necks are not an issue. For my 308 rifles, when I bump my shoulders to minus 0.002 measured with this gauge they are very close to perfect. The bolt with no firing pin or ejector pin drops 3/4 closed under gravity and one finger can easily close the bolt.

I use Imperial sizing wax. I wipe it onto the case with my fingers. This take a few seconds. I have a little dance that use to get brass a consistent size. Lube a case, put it into the shellholder, drop the handle. Grab another case and lube it. Raise the handle, extract the sized case and drop it into a basket, insert the newly lubed case into the shellholder and drop the handle, grab and lube another case, continue.

This has the effect of leaving the case in the die under stress for a bit of time and letting the brass flow. If I anneal my cases and do this little dance, I get very good consistency - typically the cases measure either 0.002 or 0.003.

For what it's worth, I use Redding full-length button dies. There is a lock ring on the die that never moves. I set the die height in the press using shims. Today, with most of my brass, I use a .007 and .005 shim to get my shoulder dimension. This is not fussy, it is very easy to set. If I have different brass, it is easy to check to see if .012 is right. If I need to adjust it, measure with the gauge, choose the correct shims and Robert is your father's brother.

 

[Rmkeyjr]

Hi everyone.

I have bought two forster bump dies, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6 Creedmoor.
The bushing is adjusted with a little float inside as in the manual.
If i adjust the die to the shellholder as pr manual im missing 2-3 mm of travle before the nect is fully sized, there is no way to get the die low enough over the case to actually bump it.
I control the bump using the Wilsons case gauge.

Does anyone else have this issue. ?

I have had a shellhoulder turned down to absolut minimum and that has allowed me to bump the 6.5. But the 6, needs to go every lower.
Would it even be possible to take off the Die or is the steel hardend.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...ing/bushing-bump-neck-bench-rest-sizing-dies/

The forester bushing bump die will NOT bump the shoulder WITH the bushing in the die. To bump the shoulder the bushing must be removed which requires a separate operation to size the neck.

 

[LG65CM]

You said that when you use the Forster shoulder bump with the neck sizing die, it doesn't fit into your Wilson case gauge. You might ask Wilson but I think that their gauge assumes that you full-length sized the case. If you did that, the entire case would be SAAMI-size and, I think, would fit into the Wilson gauge. But you aren't doing that.

I use the RCBS case gauges. They measure the base-to-datum line. It is a micrometer for cases and that is probably what you want to do. The RCBS gauge isn't fussy about neck diameter - your 90% sized necks are not an issue. For my 308 rifles, when I bump my shoulders to minus 0.002 measured with this gauge they are very close to perfect. The bolt with no firing pin or ejector pin drops 3/4 closed under gravity and one finger can easily close the bolt.

I use Imperial sizing wax. I wipe it onto the case with my fingers. This take a few seconds. I have a little dance that use to get brass a consistent size. Lube a case, put it into the shellholder, drop the handle. Grab another case and lube it. Raise the handle, extract the sized case and drop it into a basket, insert the newly lubed case into the shellholder and drop the handle, grab and lube another case, continue.

This has the effect of leaving the case in the die under stress for a bit of time and letting the brass flow. If I anneal my cases and do this little dance, I get very good consistency - typically the cases measure either 0.002 or 0.003.

For what it's worth, I use Redding full-length button dies. There is a lock ring on the die that never moves. I set the die height in the press using shims. Today, with most of my brass, I use a .007 and .005 shim to get my shoulder dimension. This is not fussy, it is very easy to set. If I have different brass, it is easy to check to see if .012 is right. If I need to adjust it, measure with the gauge, choose the correct shims and Robert is your father's brother.

Great method to let the brass get some dwell (in the die) time!! I like that!! (Y)

 

[jpcowboy]

The forester bushing bump die will NOT bump the shoulder WITH the bushing in the die. To bump the shoulder the bushing must be removed which requires a separate operation to size the neck.

According to forster website it resizes the neck and bumps the the shoulder and deprimes at once

 

[Herstal 12]

If the brass fits in your chamber, you are done sizing.
Cheers

 

[Rmkeyjr]

According to forster website it resizes the neck and bumps the the shoulder and deprimes at once

My mistake. I figured it out- works fine