I ordered mine like this from Foundation.. sent John Kyle the measurements. Correct, they are just QD holes and studs so most gun smiths could do this on a manners or a guy could do it himself as well.
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Precision Rifle Gear Foundation stocks vs Manners TCS?
- Thread starter Islas82
- Start date
It’s not qd cups. It’s a rail with the holes/cups machines into it. All you would have to do is find someone competent with a mil and they could mill out the stick and you could install it with some epoxy.
right, the official manners sikes rail is a rail with qd cups every few inches, but I'm not sure you can even buy that rail without having manners install it. The alternative is qd cups cut into your stock at intervals, like the foundation pictured above. The sikes clutch fits into qd cups.
To the owners of these super sexy foundation stocks......can you offset the cheek piece alignment slightly L or R for fitment? Is there LOP spacers? I prefer to run 12.75-13" lop for positional style stuff. The foundations do not appear to have any butt pad height or cant adjustability?
I don’t think so on the cheek piece offset but it’s not an adjustment I really use so it’s a non issue. there’s spacers available for purchase from foundation and others but I just used some of the spacers that came with my TCS and added about an inch of LOP. And no there is no height or can’t adjustability on the butt pad from what I can see, I do wish I had that.
Thanks for the info! Did a lil research, a centurion comes at 13.5" lop with a single 1/2" spacer installed so you can go 13" as sold by vendors. I usually run 28" hvy varm or comp contours, may need to add a steel spacer under the cheek piece for weight to balance.
It’s KMW hardware. You can offset the front and rear of the cheek piece independently if you wanted. Pull the cheek piece off and insert appropriate size hex into the shafts to loosen them for adjustment.
I run a 26” proof competition contour and rifle is perfectly balance about 2” forward of the mag well which is where I like it.
Foundation stocks are naturally a bit tail heavy in the "standard" configuration. The "light" configuration has a bit of material removed from the butt stock but I've not been able to try out one to see how much it affected balance.
I think balance starts to get right for postional/PRS when you put a really heavy contour barrel in a standard configuration stock, and/or add a weight kit to the fore-end. A 27-28" Heavy Varmint barrel was pretty nice in mine, but I like the balance even more with an extra heavy weight kit plus the heavy barrel. Currently running 28" M24 barrel plus 4lb of tungsten weights in the fore-end. Definitely no need to add weight to the butt stock.
IMHO, the only thing that has really kept me from ordering a Foundation already is the weight/balance situation with them... After seeing and shooting a bunch of them, seems like every guy who has one has had to come up with a MacGuyver'd plan as far as weights are concerned. I don't know if I've even run into 2 guys who've ordered their weight kits from the same place? So I really wish Foundation would come up with a more standardized weight system.
I'm pretty much stuck on ordering 26" Proof prefits for the foreseeable future because they're cheap, good, and pretty beefy as-is, so I'd like to be able to easily balance and/or add weight to the rig using a barrel/contour that's more typical/ubiquitous like that. Seems most of the guys I've met who were happiest with their Foundations were rocking ~28" truck axles that definitely didn't just come off a shelf.
Depending on what you're doing, that's not to say it's a whole lot easier with Manners either these days though, I just received a TCS the other day, ordered the same exact spec as one I already had, and it showed up with the lighter 419 rail instead of the heavier steel rail. After talking with Tom, seems that the 419 rail far and away gets ordered most of the time, so I'm not sure Manners is going to even offer the heavier steel rails anymore (which sucks IMO because the 419 sawtooth rail stinks compared to the steel option, next to the steel rail the aluminum rail feels flimsy almost).
I'm pretty much stuck on ordering 26" Proof prefits for the foreseeable future because they're cheap, good, and pretty beefy as-is, so I'd like to be able to easily balance and/or add weight to the rig using a barrel/contour that's more typical/ubiquitous like that. Seems most of the guys I've met who were happiest with their Foundations were rocking ~28" truck axles that definitely didn't just come off a shelf.
Depending on what you're doing, that's not to say it's a whole lot easier with Manners either these days though, I just received a TCS the other day, ordered the same exact spec as one I already had, and it showed up with the lighter 419 rail instead of the heavier steel rail. After talking with Tom, seems that the 419 rail far and away gets ordered most of the time, so I'm not sure Manners is going to even offer the heavier steel rails anymore (which sucks IMO because the 419 sawtooth rail stinks compared to the steel option, next to the steel rail the aluminum rail feels flimsy almost).
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I have a McMillan stock on a XM3 clone and it's ok. Nothing great. I had a Manners for a while, and liked it. But for the price point, the fit and finish wasn't what I expected. I ended up purchasing a Foundation Genesis 2 and am very happy with it. Only downside is I had to get a new Spuhr mount because the 4006 I had on the AX was too high. Now I just need to find more time to get to the range.
There are several companies that make Universal weighted rails that are similar to the A419 TCS rails. They will work and function the same on a Foundation as the TCS rail functions on the Manners.
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Gonna depend on your face, the barrel profile, and the objective bell diameter. I’m currently running 1.25” with the riser adjusted way up. Anything 1” to 1.25” should do fine.
Went out today and shot my first 50 rounds with the foundation. Definitely a different feel in recoil, but then again it was just 6mm CM so not much there to absorb. Coming from the TCS it’s gonna take some getting used to the angle of the centurion, maybe the Genesis 2 would have been an easier transition but not impossible (plus no black available). I added some grip panel to it and it feel comfortable and easy to control, I agree with the “critics” on the smooth feel. I only shot from a bench today and did no positional or tripod shooting but rifle seemed nicely balanced with no weight addition. LOP was a bit shorter that’s I like out the box so I used a couple spacers from my other TCS to improvise.
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Do you have any pics from the inside of the stock? Just curious how all the QD points would effect adding a weight kit to the stock.
Now that you mention it, I'm now remembering JK didn't machine honeycombs in those spots. So it's basically missing a few locations to put weights. I can't find any pictures right now.
I have three TCS, two were matter of luck, tried the Centurion but the TCS simply fits me like a glove. Waiting for my fourth.
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Posting for those looking for an alternative to the clutch style system for your Foundations.
I purchased a manners tcs a month ago, shot a match with it. I normally run a flat shoe trigger, swapped to a curved to reduce trigger distance to grip. I found myself breaking the trigger with the first knuckle/finger pad, vs the second knuckle/finger pad that I've come used to with shorter grip to trigger distances even with the flat bow. My fuzion inlet foundation centurion came in last week and man I feel right back at home on the grip. Sold the tcs for what I paid to a friend a few days later. I've already ordered a second centurion for my Archimedes build. I'll be keeping my Xylo chassis to whore between my origin, or of I need a lighter setup vs the foundations. They're so butt heavy that even with a 28" heavy comp contour, a tuner and brake out at the muzzle, the balance point is right at front of mag well. I like it about 4" forward of that so its balanced at center of my heavy schmedium bag.
I tried a TCS again at the JTAC class back in April. Went back to a Foundation Centurion for the next match. Promptly tied for 5th. I just think the Centurion is a better overall stock for how I like to shoot.
Yup, downsized recently to a switch barrel action and sold everything else including the foundation. I would like to own another one in the future but not a centurion, could not get used to the grip angle.
I went with the exodus for my first one and I much prefer the slightly swept grip. I’ve shot a few before ordering and much prefer over the centurion. I also came from a Tcs.
They don’t but the Genesis seems closer to the style of the TCS so if anything I would get one of those.
Foundation's Revelation stock model seems to have a near vertical grip face, but the fore-end isn't very wide and the weight is significantly less than other models, making it a lot less popular in the PRS (trends).
Have really been wanting to try a foundation and tore between the centurion and genesis 2. Run an eh1 on my hunting rifle, not sure how they compare grip wise to a tcs. Sounds like if you had it to do over you would try the g2?
Would likely put some kind of grip tape for a better purchase on it also. Do you think the tape was sufficient compared to holding onto a manners?
Thanks
I have a Genesis 2 now for a terminus and love it, much more comfortable than the centurion. As far as the grip angle compared to a TCS it’s almost identical. I bought some grip tape from Amazon and put it on, I wouldn’t say it’s necessary but it’s nice. Don’t need much really, just strategically placed.
They’re slick, much more than manners since they have a bit of stippling on their design, that being said a lil grip tape or grip panels (what I used) solves that issue. I’ll send you a pic of my grip another day so you can see what I mean.
The Centurion is what I run , I’ve got smaller hands plus came from running a chassis with a straight grip so the Centurion was the perfect fit for me. Here in Oklahoma we definitely have some hot humid days and so far I haven’t seen the need to add grip tape to mine.
If you zoom in you can kinda see it, they’re hexagonal panels around the grip and a couple on top for my thumb. Will find a better one.
Hex grip tape fan here... they're on all my Foundations.
What color option stock is that?Hex grip tape fan here... they're on all my Foundations.
I really liked the look of the hex tape and gave it a try, but it wasn't quite as grippy as I thought it would be. I ended up getting some skateboard grip tape and cutting out my own strips, those offer a lot more traction.
I personally don't mind the smooth finish and don't use grip tape on my MG2. My daughter wanted some more grip so we put the skateboard grip tape on her Centurion, did three narrow horizontal strips that wrap around the whole grip.
I personally don't mind the smooth finish and don't use grip tape on my MG2. My daughter wanted some more grip so we put the skateboard grip tape on her Centurion, did three narrow horizontal strips that wrap around the whole grip.
Here’s some close ups of my grip panels.
