From Varget to 4064

[Hook Creek]

On my last can of Varget! Going to have to start tapping into my 4064 I've been sittin on. Just curious what anyone's results have been trying to duplicate velocity for .308. I have used IMR 4064 in the past with great results but its been a while. The load I've been using for my .308 is great for this rifle. 44.0gr Varget, Lapua brass, CCI BR2 primer, 175gr SMK and/or 178Hornady BTHP/178 AMAX seated to 2.810. Have not used a chronograph yet, but coming up .8 mills @ 200y, 1.6 @ 300y, and 2.7 @ 400y with 20in 1:10 twist barrel. If no one has nothin I'll post my results back when I try it out

 

[sic65stang]

Here is some numbers from my 18.5 BBL. I dont really know what FPS you would be pushing with that. 2800+? May help you, may not.

Hornady AMAX 178 IMR 4064 41.5 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2571AVG - 51 ES
Hornady AMAX 178 IMR 4064 42 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2645 AVG - 8 ES
Hornady AMAX 178 IMR 4064 42.5 Federal Match 210M Missed Velocity
Hornady AMAX 178 IMR 4064 43 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2756 AVG - 14.5 ES

Sierra Matchking 175 IMR 4064 41.5 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2526 AVG
Sierra Matchking 175 IMR 4064 42 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2582 AVG
Sierra Matchking 175 IMR 4064 42.5 Federal Match 210M 2.81 2616 AVG

 

[turbo54]

I've found Varget and 4064 to be essentially interchangeable in a 308 with 175smk.

Prudence would suggest you start at 42.5 or 43 with the 4064, but expect to wind up damn near your varget charge.

Good shooting, 4064 works great.

 

[bigfish_7]

Worked very well in my gas gun with 24" 41.5 compared to 43.5 of Varget

 

[Hookman]

Good timing, I made the switch to 4064 also and had a chance to test some loads this weekend. My rifle is a GAP Rock, 22" Rock barrel 95 Palma chamber. I was using LC LR brass.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

 

[2ndPanzer]

Any 190 data? Old standby was 42.0 or 42.5

 

[Victor N TN]

My best 1K groups for my 308 were from either 44.2 gr of Varget or 42.2 gr of IMR 4064 topped with a 175 SMK or Berger 175 NON VLD I ran them 2.825" jamming into the lands .010" I had to add +160 clicks to my 30mm Leupold 8.5 X 25 X 50mm w/ 30mm side focus.

Good luck.
Victor

 

[trailrider121]

What velocity are you getting between the two powders?

 

[Hook Creek]

Thanks alot for the info guys. Tested some loads today, and it seems like 43.0 of the 4064 is going to match my 44.0 of varget. Let you know When I make my final test. Going to see if My buddy will bring his chrono to get some numbers

 

[Pinecone]

The come ups you list for a 100 yard zero, seems to match 2500 (edit velocity) fps according to JBM.

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (mil) (mil) (mil) (mil) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (mil) (mil)
0 *** *** *** *** 2506.0 2.245 2440.0 0.000 *** ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.2 0.2 2328.4 2.086 2106.2 0.124 6.1 6.1
200 -0.7 -0.7 0.5 0.5 2157.9 1.933 1809.0 0.258 6.3 6.3
300 -1.6 -1.6 0.7 0.7 1994.6 1.787 1545.6 0.403 6.6 6.6
400 -2.7 -2.7 1.0 1.0 1839.0 1.647 1314.0 0.559 6.8 6

 

[Hook Creek]

The come ups you list for a 100 yard zero, seems to match 2600 fps according to JBM.

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (mil) (mil) (mil) (mil) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (mil) (mil)
0 *** *** *** *** 2506.0 2.245 2440.0 0.000 *** ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.2 0.2 2328.4 2.086 2106.2 0.124 6.1 6.1
200 -0.7 -0.7 0.5 0.5 2157.9 1.933 1809.0 0.258 6.3 6.3
300 -1.6 -1.6 0.7 0.7 1994.6 1.787 1545.6 0.403 6.6 6.6
400 -2.7 -2.7 1.0 1.0 1839.0 1.647 1314.0 0.559 6.8 6

What are you plugin in to get 2600? When I see what JBM gives me its approximately 2470 ft/s which would seem about right with a 20 incher. It would be cool though if it was 2600

 

[Hookman]

What velocity are you getting between the two powders?

Is this what you were looking for?

 

[Victor N TN]

What velocity are you getting between the two powders?

I'll have to look in my notebook for the velocities. But either will group -6.0" from my rifle at 1K. My rifle has a 308 Obermeyer chamber in a Mike Rock barrel, 26 inches long. I have the length set to 2.825". for my rifle that's seating well into the lands.

Edited to add: My wife's Mother has passed Sunday morning. I'm kind of stretched a little thin right now. I'll try to get back to doing things later in the week or next week. Family first.

 

[trailrider121]

Well seems like Varget, and IMR 4064 work great. I'm currently using Berger 130 VLD hunting, and IMR 4064 in my 260. I thinking of just staying with it. It shoots very well. Varget is just so hard to find right now.

Man, I hate those 5th shots that screw up a group. Either way it repeats the groups, and vertical is usually around 1"

 

[Pinecone]

What are you plugin in to get 2600? When I see what JBM gives me its approximately 2470 ft/s which would seem about right with a 20 incher. It would be cool though if it was 2600

Typo, I meant 2500 FPS.

 

[hooyah]

I was getting 2550 fps with 44.2 grains of target and 175 SMK and when the target dried up I also switched to IMR4064 42.8 is where I landed and my rifle absolutely loves it and and is pushing it 2670 and shooting better groups too.. I saw Varget on the shelf yesterday and walked by it

HooYah

 

[Twitch2120]

44.1 in win brass with fed 210m under a 178 AMAX loaded long in my factory AACSD. best load to date. had 3 shooters shoot a .5 group at the end of the day. best ive ever gotten out of the rifle. too bad you are far away, i have 2 lbs of varget and not much 4064...

 

[Slofr8]

I had to do the exact same thing. 168gn. smk on 42.5gn varget was my load. Tried 4064 and 42.5gns was the butter zone also.

 

[Hook Creek]

Ended up with 43.0gr of the 4064 to match my 44.0 of Varget. It is matching my DOPE perfectly.

 

[AutoVerminator]

308win with a 26" rock barrel

I run 43.2gr of 4064 w/ a .015 jump. Avg on the chrono has been 2680 fps.
Win brass and Fed 210M primers

This load has been a sweet spot for my old barrel so I tried it in my new barrel and shot even better.

 

[rduckwor]

What's the temp sensitivity of 4064?

Thanks,

 

[Wireman134]

What's the temp sensitivity of 4064?

Thanks,

"The load as produced by Federal is claimed to produce under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards from an appropriate rifle. With the IMR powder the shift in velocity is only 20 fps from 0 to 100 Deg C, with the Standard deviation in velocity over 40 rounds being 15 fps or less. In contrast the M118LR loaded with RE-15 powder will see a 50 fps rise in velocity for a 50 deg rise in temperature".

From The Rifleman's Journal

The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: 7.62 NATO Long Range Match Cartridges - Part 2

 

[Hook Creek]

I have not noticed any changes in impact using 4064 with different temperatures.

 

[Grump]

I think that Federal load was using a temp-stabilized non-cannister version of 4064. Or was it flash-minimized? Or both? There was a LONG thread on that here maybe two years ago.

22-inch barrel and semiauto chamber, I *was* getting near-identical velocities AND really-identical POI out to 500 or so with 42.5 4064 and 41.5 of Varget, newer FC cases near-identical in water capacity to LC and Lapua brass.

But my latest post-shortage bottles of 4064 are now giving me 2640 fps instead of 2540-2580. No real trend temperature-wise in my earlier velocity range.

In general and in my experience, 4064 is way less temp/velocity sensitive than my original Service Rifle mainstay, W-W 748. That stuff was proven to be almost exactly 1 fps per 1 degree Fahrenheit temp change IIRC. 4064 is about half that, if not less. For my uses, I deemed it close enough and I wanted a US-made powder to avoid the potential problems of overseas shipping being interrupted. Based on current availability where I live, I made the right call, but for the different reason of Varget being just too *&(*&$^% popular and simply cannot be found. I even considered switching to H-4831 and heavily-compressed loads going for a modest 2580 FPS, but never experimented with it.

 

[ccoker]

My 20" factory LTR barrel gets 2575 with 178 AMAX using 44.2g Varget

 

[mike.h.]

just found some 4064, , so thanks for the heads up on the load data.

 

[mark5pt56]

I'm getting ready to tweak it some more after a second round of testing(.308 175 SMK). The 42.2-43 range is consistent, .3-.5 range and 2600-2650 vel from 24" barrel. I was fairly suprised with the velocity at the top end using the OCW method. 2800 with 45.9 with the only pressure clue was slight, very slight primer flow. When I did the OCW numbers, 43.9 was the start after the three test rounds. I decided to go back and try under it to see and I'm glad I did.

 

[hamstur]

I loaded to lower node of 43.0 gr Varget, Lapua brass, SMK175.

I used 4064 interchangably at 42.2 gr which had same dope to 800

 

[Hook Creek]

Finally used a chrono today. I don't remember the actual numbers, but 43.0 of 4064 with 175 SMK's out of my 1:10 20 incher was averaging 2580 fps. Hell of a lot more than I thought it was!