Re: Frustrated with Leica
I am the AHB referred to above. A little background: I've worked for Leica for just under 4 years and have been in the hunting shooting industry for nearly 20. One of the reasons I now work for Leica is because of my experience selling the brand. No one is perfect, you really get no know that when you've been married to or worked with someone.
That being said, I can honestly tell you that everyone from the VP of Sport Optics for North America down to lowly yours truly believes in what we do and how we do it. The following is not a rebuttal of OP so much as a commentary on commentary I read on this and other forums. I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with the OP earlier today and hope to have the opportunity to make him happy. Ok, here goes (picture Ace Ventura sucking in air before stating his case against Chappy here):
First off, in regards to warranty, the stated warranty is 2 years for a CRF. It's the longest in the industry (at least last time I checked). We were the first to offer a warranty this long on an LRF; everyone else had to step up.
Second, at no time have we ever offered a $200 discount on a new unit if the old one is out of warranty. That is bad math (and repetition) by other posters piling on. Typically at worst case, we offer the opportunity for the original purchaser to buy a current, much better model at landed cost. Sales commissions, marketing, opperating costs, dealer margin, all those come on top of landed cost. Currently this price is about $450 for a 1600-B, a $350 difference from the normal price. That's almost half the price of the new BETTER one. And that is what I offered over the phone. The unit has not been sent in yet, so we don't even know if <span style="font-style: italic">worst</span> case is the case. Under promise, over deliver. Translation: we offer a deal where we make zero profit and the user gets a brand new, much better unit than he had before for appx 56% of what the new one would normally cost. Question: What would you say a good working order, 3 year old used CRF1200 that is for sale on here should bring? If you want to look at it from the standpoint that we're giving credit in his old one, we're giving $350 or so on a unit that was only $599 in the first place. It's funny what folks have come to expect in a warranty in this industry. Some companies offer an unconditional lifetime warranty on their products and more power to them, but remember we're talking electronics here. Sony will give you a 90 day warranty on a $3000 TV, that's never going to move an inch because it's MOUNTED TO YOU YOUR WALL!
Third, there's something a lot of folks don't realize about warranties. I confess to thinking (before working in the industry) wow, lifetime warranty, so and so's product must be indestructible. Uh-uh. Warranties cost money and are a something you pay for (just like a business' corporate taxes) even though you don't know it. Most often, an unconditional lifetime warranty just tells you that a company makes enough money on a product that when they sell it, they've factored in the costs vs their margins and can afford to do so. For example, there are some $1500 binos on the market that cost less than $150 to make. That's right cost is less than 10% of retail for SOME companies. They can afford an unconditional lifetime warranty. As I said above, $450 is the appx landed cost of a Leica unit that retails for $799. Remember, we sell it to a dealer for quite a bit less than that.
The only other way (besides being a function of cost) that I am aware of a warranty being funded is if a company doesn't account for warranty as a part of the cost of the product at all and just subsidizes it from the coffers of a larger parent company to buy market share.
Speaking of costs, a retail cost refund is almost never given by a Manf. They might replace product, but I've NEVER encountered a manf that would give me retail $$ back on a product they sold for wholesale. That's the retailer's bailiwick, and it usually only happens just after the purchase.
Fourth, as far as reliability goes, our rates of return are WELL below one percent across the CRF range and history of product. They are consistently rated the toughest available in every 3rd party test they're subjected too. Please remember, when you hear about problems with anyone's products, you are much more likely to be HEARING about it because it was a problem. Furthermore, I'll take our products and put them up against any equivalent sport optic on the market in a scientific durability challenge, and I'll bet my own money on ours winning. I don't earn enough cashish to make that statement just to sell stuff. FYI, all our binos and RFs are rated to withstand a minimum 100G impact in as much as 5 directions.
Fifth, I always scratch my head when I hear, "had trouble with my Leica, bought a Bushnell, and I couldn't be happier." I was never happier trading down in optics, women, or anything else.
Does one bad experience prove the rule?
Finally, one thing I can assure you of, we haven't survived (and thrived) since 1849 just because of our name. Lightning will strike, we will screw up, and we MIGHT not be able to fix it to your satisfaction, but I guarantee, if you don't give us the chance, we can't try. It blows my mind when folks don't even bother.
Feel free to contact me any time.
