Sidearms & Scatterguns G19 & H&K P30

[Timo Turl]

I've never owned a handgun so plse excuse these fairly basic and broad questions. I appreciate that the answers might come down to individual choice but would appreciate some guidance all the same:

1. Would anyone discourage me from choosing either a G19 or H&K P30(S) for my first handgun ? It will be used for target shooting and to a lesser extent concealed carry.

2. I haven't a clue about handgun ammo. I'm looking for a recommendation on both a good defensive bullet (perhaps Corbon ?) and a good quality option to practice with that is usually available at most stores. I intend to put plenty of rounds downrange and i'm no expert so paying up for the very best ammo at this stage isn't going to benefit me (?). What would be a good choice from a cost/reliability/consistency & availability perspective that won't leave me either searching the country for it or wondering if it is me or the bullet causing the crap shooting (yes it will be me) ?

3. Holsters - there are literally hundreds to choose from and I know it will eventually come down to what suits me best but can you help narrow the list down a little for me ? I'm looking for a good quality hip/belt carry (not inside the waistband) that can double-up for conealed carry on rare occasions. I'd prefer some sort of tough fabric holster than leather but if that isn't recommended plse shout. What are the top 1-2 brands I should try to focus on ?

Thank you

 

[KM375]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I like the Glocks, I own several, including two 19's.
I would recommend a good 9mm bonded bullet, Hornady, Winchester Ranger, etc.
Holsters are personal preference, I like FIST-INC.com for an adjustable IWB/OWB holster in one package, you can try it either way and then choose the way you like to carry.
Mine is the #14 combination it is a hybrid with a leather outside and kydex inside.
http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/NUMBER.htm

 

[Buckeye Scott]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I used to own a g19, nice gun. I never used it for CC but it is very light and slim so i would imagine it would do fine. I have shot the p30 before and you are right it is a personal preferance. I prefer the glock due to the short reset on the trigger. For CC ammo I would go with a 124gr speer gold dot. I am not a fan of corbon but don't have a good reason why. Winchester rangers, hornday tap will work fine as well. Really can't go wrong sticking with a major name brand. IMO there is not a world of difference between them and if you aim it right you will be fine. I would warn that if you do reload that both of those guns need fmj ammo and not to use lead for target practice. This is a turn off for me because I can shoot lead 45s for the price of fmj 9mm. Best of luck, I sure you be happy with eather choice.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Both are great all-around weapons. If you buy the HK P30 buy the LEM version, or have it converted.

The are only two things really that are important with respect to handguns. First is that you shoot it well. That means proper practice to reinforce good habit patterns. Second that it is reliable - an handgun must be reliable oabove all else since it should be a weapon of last resort.

Either choice will work very well - in fact you could hardly do better.

For defense buy Federal HST or Speer Gold dot.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

About time you got into the handgun game!!

1. Both excellent guns but I would compare thr P30 more to the full size G17 than the compact G19. If you plan to do more target/competition shooting stick with a full size gun. If you plan to just plink and be more for carry, then go with the more compact type frames (G19/26). My G26 is as, if not more, accurate than my G19. Not sure why, but I just shoot it better.

2. Ammo is personal choice and availablity. Defensive ammo I would stick with a quality manufacture and a defensive round JHP (Hornady,Corbon,Remington,Winchester,Speer, etc). For plinking you can use pretty much anything. Some don't like steel case ammo like the Brown Bear or Wolf. All my guns shoot it fine. Or you can stick with like Remington UMC or Winchester white box.. most local sporting goods stores carry it. You can also buy in bulk online and save some money from places like LuckyGunner, AmmuntionToGo, SGAmmo, Palmetto State Armory.

3. Outside the wasteband holsters... I prefer kydex for OWB and leather for IWB. You do have lots of options. If you want a competion type holster in kydex, look at the Blade-Tech DOH.. it is made to ride lower (not good for CCW). For a more CCW type.. look at the CompTac Settable Cant or Gladiator, etc. They have nice products and ride a little higher. On the lower end, look at the Uncle Mike's and Fobus offerings. Again.. these are just a few options.. tons of choices in holsters. You will probably end up with a few different for different reasons.. one IWB for deep CCW, one OWB for Competition, and one OWB for CCW.

Good luck man.. do your research (youtube is helpful) and get to a shop and feel some of them. Grab a few with your eyes closed and see what feels good and points best (when open eyes). Some the Glock angle bothers.. for me, I can shoot 1911 style or Glock style w/o a problem.

 

[mattsnuked]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Can you CC in NYC??

I would prefer the G19.

 

[MMA-Migraine]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

1- G19

2-Wolf for cheap ammo and Cor-Bon JHP for self defense, for example.

3- Raven Concealment, Kaluban Cloak and Crossbreed among others.

 

[BigDTexas68]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Maybe you can find a shooting range that rents the two guns in question and try them out. What is relative is what feels good in YOUR hand. Both guns you mentioned are good weapons and will serve your needs.

 

[bjdm151]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Glock vs HK? You kinda picked a touchy subject and I'm guessing that sometime here in the near future this thread will probably get jacked and turn into the good old Glock vs HK diatribe. So I will try to be objective (I swear, at leat half heartedly).

I love my HKs and will never deny it. They are awesome guns and have never failed me. So if price isn't a major concern on your checklist,and I'm assuming you've at least looked at the prices, I would lean towards the HK. Its very hard to quantify why. The glock is probably honestly everything anybody needs. It will shoot just about anything you give it, failures are pretty rare, blah blah blah. There is honestly only one semi-objective reason not to go with the glock and that is ergonomics. If you don't like the grip angle don't buy it. I have never been a fan of that grip angle and I found that when I was shooting a glock my mind was more the grip angle than on shooting fundamentals.

Reason 2 is totally subjective. The most general one used is cars. Its generaly put by a lot of people that an HK compares to an exotic car where as the Glock is your standard family sedan. Thats kind of close but something closer would be a Glock is a Toyota Camry. Great car and it will run forever. Everybody has them and they won't let you down. There really isn't a car that I know of that compares to an HK. Every exotic car or more expensive car that I know of has rediculous maintenance schedules and the price of parts is absolutely retarded. HK parts might be a little harder to find but it's not like a Lotus Esprit that needs new brake rotors every 10,000 miles.

Reason three is also subjective. If I'm gonna get a hooker theres plenty out there that can do the job. But paying extra is worht it to me.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I would suggest trying the P30, it is a very nicely built handgun and the interchangeable side plates and backstrap make it very easy to fit your hand comfortably.

I've had HKs forever and they have always performed very well.

One note about the P30 models is they like nice stout loads, they don't like wimpy weak loads.

 

[chad3]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Hated Glocks the first time out. Gave them a chance and fell in love with my 26. Disappears in the waistband and is still fun to shoot at the range. My first pistol was a sig and while I think I like it it can't be carried anywhere as well
Know what you want from the gun.

 

[Bri0242]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I've owned 3 Glock 19s, and 2 HK P30s. I have smaller hands, and I like the ability to change the grip without mailing it to Robar. I also prefer the yellow dot sights on the P30. You get what you pay for with the HK. I also use it with a Comptac holster. I'm not dogging Glocks, because I've owned 6 of them. IMHO, I prefer HKs.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I Owned an HK USPc9. As stated above, get the LEM if you get an HK because the DA pull on the DA/SA guns is atrocious at best. The P30 is a very ergonomic handgun, but so is the Glock Gen 4. While Glock looks very utilitarian there are very few parts and all maintenance can be accomplished by anyone. It also has excellent machining. I sold my HK for a Glock Gen4 G19. I was never fond of the old Glock grip and the gen4 is a huge improvement. Also, I am pretty set against getting anything other than striker fired pistols from here out (except 1911s as they have the best triggers of any pistol). HK has even been toying with making a striker fired version of their pistols. There isn't a thing that either Glock nor HK does better than the other. Now you have to decide if the extra 250-300 bucks is worth it.

Josh

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I have carried both, and would carry either again. Currently running Glocks because they fit my big hands better (trigger breaks too far to the rear on the P30 and need to put a lot of work in to change my shooting at this point), and Glocks are cheaper and easier to get mags and parts for.

Either would do fine, like was said though, get the LEM P30 if you want the HK.

Holsters? Very personal. Very happy with my Raven for my Glock, I use it in competition and for waist carry.

Fabric holsters universally suck. Leather can be comfortable, but so can the right kydex holster for you body.

I carry a kydex holder appendix, a majority of the time. No problems for me, comfort wise.

I'd get a cheaper blade-tech OWB holster for now, and use that while you learn the gun. Once you run it for a while, and see other holsters out there, you'll start to figure out what you want. I've used 9 different holster for my Glock, 7 of them I still have.

I have an OWB holster I use at some classes or in some competition. I have my Raven OWB that I carry and also use in IDPA. I have a CCC Shaggy I run AIWB, a homemade AIWB holster, a homemade OWB belt holster (pre-Raven), an OWB retention holster (Safariland 6377), an IWB 4:30 carry canted kydex holster, and OWB canted thumb-break Kirkpatrick leather holster... all have their place and still get used on occasion.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Thank you for all the advice and suggestions. Just to follow-up on a couple of questions raised in my direction:

*i've tried both (P30 and G19 gen 4), they fit me well. I hear you on them both being good choices and didn't intend to turn this into one vs other but more would anyone discourage me from owning either as my first handgun...sounds like a resounding no.

*you can cc in NYC but it is EXTREMELY hard to get the permit. You need a solid justification.

*thanks for the tips on ammo and holsters. Glad to hear ammo is less of an issue than in rifles. On holsters i was hoping to buy one, learn it and get used to it but sounds very much like i'll end up with many despite my best efforts not to.

*hadn't considered LEM version of the HK. Was leaning towards the P30S with the addition of the safety but will def look into the LEM given the suggestions.

One final question if I may...should I buy a tactical light/laser at the ouset and if so which one, or would I be better advised to learn without these features at the start and add them later if required ?

 

[KM375]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I like the X300 for the light, but for CCW it does make a small pistol a little larger.
I have a set of night sights on my glock, I think sometimes a laser will get you away from looking down the sights when you should be looking at the front sight.
I carry a small light (Maratac AA) in my pocket that works as a good tactical light.

 

[Bri0242]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Forget the light / laser. I had one on my last G19, & I found it annoying. It was heavy, & it threw the balance off. Get some good sights (tritium). The surefire e2d defender & backup are nice.

 

[BigBoss0311]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

For HD I loved my P30 .40 LEM with Surefire X300. For carry, you are trying to carry CONCEALED. Hard enough to do that with just the pistol. Add a light and it gets even more difficult.

 

[AU27]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I've owned both HKs and Glocks. (USP .40, USPc .40, G23, G19) And as was stated before both will do you solid. This comes down to feel and price. For pure carry purposes, I'd go with Glock. For more heavy range use, I'd go with the HK. That P30 grip is unreal, so very comfortable. But hard to conceal for sure. Remember, slide length (within reason) is nigh to irrelevant when it comes to carry, but thickness and the grip lenth/width will absolutely affect how well it can be concealed. SHOOT BOTH BEFORE YOU BUY and make your own assement. It would be unwise to buy either sigh unseen. Look for a range that rents or buddies that own them.

Second, as far as ammo. Of the three duty calibers (9mm, .40, .45...and to a lesser extend .357sig), I feel like the proper ammo design and weight is most hotly debated in the 9mm. I prefer 147 grain 9mm ammo. That extra mass helps ALOT with penetration in a bullet that doesn't have a lot of mass to begin with. IGNORE the raw numbers of energy and muzzle velocity on the boxes of ammo. They only figure in when you are comapring two bullets of equal weight (grain). If they're they same, then yes pick the faster one. A heavier bullet will be lesser effected by deflection from bone, dense tissue, and other obstacles in the bullets path. My personal choice based on my shooting (YMMV) is for practice: Speer Lawman in any caliber. Speer loads them up to similar strength powder charges as the regular duty ammo. So for me, practice ammo is Speer Lawman 147 grain TMJ. (Total metal jacket). For defense, Federal HST 147 gr or Speer Gold Dot 147 gr.

Your carry rig is just as important as the weapon itself because if your carry rig isn't comfortable, you won't carry. It will aid you in mitigating discomfort and a good rig will also be more effective at concealment in general. I've toyed around with quite a few but I've settled on a Crossbreed Supertuck using a 1.5inch wide Crossbreed Gun Belt. The Supertuck won't deform since it is Kydex around the weapon and the leather has a large cross section so the movement and shifting of it on your belt is minimal. It hides well and the retention is about perfect. It spreads out the weight of the weapon between two metal belt clips that are pushed out to the edges. I love this. Spreading the weight out helps a lot and is the reason some of my previous holsters are on a closet floor TDY. A good belt will improve the effectiveness of any concealment holster. It keeps the weapon in tight, your pants up, and keeps the whole rig from shifting. You can use leather or a polymer enforced riggers belt. For the Crossbreed gear which i HIGHLY recommend, the holster is about $70 and the belt is $50 I think. The staff there is reliable and very straitforward guys that will work with you. Their turn around time to ship the order is often faster than they publish.

Bottom Line Up Front. It doesn't matter what your ammo is, what weapon you carry, or how you carry it if you can't hit your target. Practice up with whatever weapon feels best to you, pick a good ammo that you have tested and you know cylces reliably in your weapon, and don't skip on your carry gear (you'll be very glad you didn't). Hope this helps!

War Eagle

 

[schiaa]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

OP,

Either gun is a great choice, and will last far longer than any of us.

The HK is twice as much, but is not better, at all. The money you would save by buying the Glock could pay for a one or two day pistol class, which should be the next thing to buy after the gun (or sometimes even before).

For ammo and holsters, in general, don't buy the cheapest stuff out there, and you'll probably be fine.

Finally, weapon mounted lights and lasers are usually far, far down on the list of necessities. A small light in your pocket is sufficient.

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

After some time getting used to the trigger, I really like the HK USP 9mm compact. It functions flawlessly and is fairly accurate compared to most plastic/metal pistols I have shot. I bought this pistol to try to get the wife into shooting sports and find myself taking it to the range more and more-It is a fun little pistol to shoot. I have always had a love for 1911's.

As far as ammo, I use most brands of FMJ for target work and have a box of Gold Dot for home protection. I do not carry so I cannot comment on best concealment piece but if I did I would probably look for something smaller than the HK in 9mm or a 38 revolver. I did own a G22 for a short time and liked the accuracy and function but did not care for the way it fit in my hands.

Hope this helps.

 

[sititunga]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you for all the advice and suggestions. Just to follow-up on a couple of questions raised in my direction:

*i've tried both (P30 and G19 gen 4), they fit me well. I hear you on them both being good choices and didn't intend to turn this into one vs other but more would anyone discourage me from owning either as my first handgun...sounds like a resounding no.

*you can cc in NYC but it is EXTREMELY hard to get the permit. You need a solid justification.

*thanks for the tips on ammo and holsters. Glad to hear ammo is less of an issue than in rifles. On holsters i was hoping to buy one, learn it and get used to it but sounds very much like i'll end up with many despite my best efforts not to.

*hadn't considered LEM version of the HK. Was leaning towards the P30S with the addition of the safety but will def look into the LEM given the suggestions.

One final question if I may...should I buy a tactical light/laser at the ouset and if so which one, or would I be better advised to learn without these features at the start and add them later if required ?

</div></div>

Just curious how long did it take you to get your NYC pistol permit?

 

[Manzgear]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

Buy once cry once as said by Steve from Triad tactical. I own both glocks and HK's. just my quick two cents. I like the one glock I own. G17 - but I pick the HK everytime I leave the house. My HK's both in 45acp have never failed me. Yes they cost more. But I really feel you get more. some will argue. but unless they have owned both like I do they really dont know. But also as said above its a personal things as well. the most expensive, nicest handgun in the world is worthless if you can't run it like your life depends on it. thats another reason. If your life depends on it. I would depend on a HK. good luck with your decision..

 

[300WSM]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

comes down to personal preference. Some people the glock will fit the hand better and come up and aim more naturally. Not so for others and the P30 would be better suited.

You need to handle both side by side...better yet shoot them both.

 

[Downzero]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I've owned both brands and I will never own an HK again. The ergonomics are terrible, the triggers feel like crap, and they are a pain in the ass to conceal because they are shaped like bricks.

I'm not a huge Glock fan either, but I'd rather have a truckload of Glocks than any HK pistol. HK just doesn't care about the civilian market, and their product shows it.

I also personally think that the Glock 19 is the perfect carry handgun if you like the Glock style. It's the perfect size and my choice of calibers, and despite my distaste for Glock, I carried one quite a bit.

 

[spr1]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I never shot an older HK, but the P30 has the most amazing ergonomics of any handgun I have ever held or fired. Dropping the mag with the trigger finger is incredibly fast and natural. It took me one range trip to get used to it. I tried dropping the mags using my thumb, and that sucks with the paddle releases.

 

[vatriggerman66]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

I own (2) Glock 19's and a 26. Although I prefer to carry the Glock 26 for it's size and weight, the 19 can be carried with a nice holster. I prefer the Blackhawk's 3 slot pancake leather holster.

The Glock 19 is a great pistol if it's the only pistol you can own or for a first pistol. You can not go wrong.

As far as ammo is concerned. Choose a good bonded, hollow point round for self protection. I prefer Blackhill's 124G +P. Also, check out Georgia Arms.com for their "Canned Heat" practice ammo.

 

[sititunga]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you for all the advice and suggestions. Just to follow-up on a couple of questions raised in my direction:

*i've tried both (P30 and G19 gen 4), they fit me well. I hear you on them both being good choices and didn't intend to turn this into one vs other but more would anyone discourage me from owning either as my first handgun...sounds like a resounding no.

*you can cc in NYC but it is EXTREMELY hard to get the permit. You need a solid justification.

*thanks for the tips on ammo and holsters. Glad to hear ammo is less of an issue than in rifles. On holsters i was hoping to buy one, learn it and get used to it but sounds very much like i'll end up with many despite my best efforts not to.

*hadn't considered LEM version of the HK. Was leaning towards the P30S with the addition of the safety but will def look into the LEM given the suggestions.

One final question if I may...should I buy a tactical light/laser at the ouset and if so which one, or would I be better advised to learn without these features at the start and add them later if required ?

</div></div>

Apologies for reposting this but I tried to send you a message, but your message box is full.

I'm curious to find out how long it took you to get your pistol permit in NYC. I know someone who might be moving to the city and want to find out what's involved, and what your experience was like.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

In the end it will all boild down to personal preference. Off duty I carry HK, on duty I use a G22. We cannot use personal firearms so I had to swallow my opinion and qual with the glock.

Personal experiences. I have not had any failures on either platform that were the result of the weapon. Any failure I have had was user induced. Being a lefty the HKs tend to be more friendly with mag release, safety/decock and slide controls. HKs use the standard 1911 style grip angle that is more natural for me. I have a USP40 V1 and USP45 LEM. I love the LEM. The trigger is awesome and any further HKs I get will have it. For Glocks, the grip makes you "think" a little more if you dont have the muscle memory of using one all the time. A natural draw and aim for me leaves it pointing high, requiring me to adjust my wrists. The right handed mag release really screws me up, a left handed grip will sometimes cause an unintentional mag release. Sometimes it will be just enough to disengage the mag but not drop it, inducing a failure from an improperly seated mag. But, despite those personal issues, it does not take away from the weapons ability to be a good choice. Even with those issues I still manage to do a 100% qual every time.

Holsters are a trial and error thing. No one here will be able to pick YOUR holster. Most folks who CC have at least a half a dozen holsters for that weapon. Each a little diffrent than the other. To each their own on that one.

 

[gpo1956]

Re: G19 & H&K P30

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've owned both brands and I will never own an HK again. The ergonomics are terrible, the triggers feel like crap, and they are a pain in the ass to conceal because they are shaped like bricks.

I'm not a huge Glock fan either, but I'd rather have a truckload of Glocks than any HK pistol. HK just doesn't care about the civilian market, and their product shows it.

I also personally think that the Glock 19 is the perfect carry handgun if you like the Glock style. It's the perfect size and my choice of calibers, and despite my distaste for Glock, I carried one quite a bit. </div></div>

You do realize he's talking about the P30 and not the USP? You're certainly not describing the P30.