GAP M40A3 or Crusader

[Timl]

I'm looking at the above mentioned models. I have a few questions that ya'll will surely be able to answer. I did not want to bother George since he is at shot this week.
1. The m40 series uses a 1:12 twist where as the crusader uses 1:11. Why does the military use 1:12 but most other builders use 1:11 or even 1:10. I know the more twist will run heavier bullets, but I will only be running up to 600 yards due to the local range limits.
2. Is there a significant difference or advantage between the Templar action in the crusader verse the blue printed Remington 700 the M40 uses. I see the crusader has a slightly better accuracy guarantee, but for us mere mortals, will this be noticeable in practice?
3. How important is the adjustable cheek piece. The M40A3/A5 is adjustable and the crusader is not. Although I see the comb on the crusader seems to be higher and more in line with the bore. I have not used an adjustable stock, so I'm not sure how a recreational shooter will improve with this option.
4. I really like the idea of having an exact replica of the marine issue, but I also want the best gun for the money.

Any input from ya'lll would be appreciated. The level of knowledge on this site is a great benefit to us amateurs.

 

[jasonk]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

Where in WA are you?

 

[micah379]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I just bought a crusader last week,I had GAP throw a saddle cheekpiece on it. As far as twist goes 11.25 is a very good twist, it handles lighter and heavier bullets very well. It's a nice balance between 1:10 and 1:12. The Templar action is great,its smooth as butter. It's all about preference, any rifle you get from GAP will be amazing.

 

[M24_SWS]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I ordered a GAP M40A3 rifle back in early december. I am really excited to get it.
I have only used remington 700 actions and i love them. Pretty smooth and very easy to work with.

I could be wrong but i think the 1 in 12 twist was originally designed to fire the M118 ammo that uses the 175 grain sierra matchking bullet. If im wrong i apologize.

Also i personally think the adjustable cheek piece is very nice to have as it allows the user to fine tune the weapon to their body therefore helping with accuracy and comfotability with using the weapon.

Last info is that i have always wanted a Mil-Spec weapon and having GAP make the M40A3 is really cool. I say that becuase a lot of people want the originals or specced out builds of the issued weapons and its cool to have a custom gun but to say you own a spec M24 or M110 or M40 rifle to me just seems ..i dont know...more interesting.

Hope this helps.

Heath

 

[Timl]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I live in Buckley (near Enumclaw).

 

[D_TROS]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2. Is there a significant difference or advantage between the Templar action in the crusader verse the blue printed Remington 700 the M40 uses. I see the crusader has a slightly better accuracy guarantee, but for us mere mortals, will this be noticeable in practice?

</div></div>

I spoke with karey at GAP and he said the tighter accuracy guarentee comes from the tighter tolerances and the stronger action on the crusader (TEMPLAR). Would the average plinker be able to tell the difference? probably not initially, but it is always nice to know that if a rifle isnt shooting, its probably not the rifle itself.

My advice, find someone that has the A4 and the A5 and order whichever feels better in you arms. Comfort factor goes a long way in repeatability and accuracy. In my opinion, the Crusader is one of the best buys available unless you bargain hunt all the parts yourself, which could take a year just to gather, not counting the smith work, and end up only saving you like $500 if your lucky. Ask how I know. Or just wait for a good low mileage used Crusader. can usually get a good deal if patient.

YMMV,
DT

 

[rundm]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I would like to find a good low milege templar in the GAP 6mm crusader chambering.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at the above mentioned models. I have a few questions that ya'll will surely be able to answer. I did not want to bother George since he is at shot this week.
1. The m40 series uses a 1:12 twist where as the crusader uses 1:11. Why does the military use 1:12 but most other builders use 1:11 or even 1:10. I know the more twist will run heavier bullets, but I will only be running up to 600 yards due to the local range limits.
2. Is there a significant difference or advantage between the Templar action in the crusader verse the blue printed Remington 700 the M40 uses. I see the crusader has a slightly better accuracy guarantee, but for us mere mortals, will this be noticeable in practice?
3. How important is the adjustable cheek piece. The M40A3/A5 is adjustable and the crusader is not. Although I see the comb on the crusader seems to be higher and more in line with the bore. I have not used an adjustable stock, so I'm not sure how a recreational shooter will improve with this option.
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">4. I really like the idea of having an exact replica of the marine issue, but I also want the best gun for the money.</span></span>

Any input from ya'lll would be appreciated. The level of knowledge on this site is a great benefit to us amateurs.

</div></div>

Just pay your local USMC recruiter a visit. I'm sure he can find you exactly what you're looking for. And best of all you won't have to pay a dime.

 

[eleaf]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at the above mentioned models. I have a few questions that ya'll will surely be able to answer. I did not want to bother George since he is at shot this week.
1. The m40 series uses a 1:12 twist where as the crusader uses 1:11. Why does the military use 1:12 but most other builders use 1:11 or even 1:10. I know the more twist will run heavier bullets, but I will only be running up to 600 yards due to the local range limits.
2. Is there a significant difference or advantage between the Templar action in the crusader verse the blue printed Remington 700 the M40 uses. I see the crusader has a slightly better accuracy guarantee, but for us mere mortals, will this be noticeable in practice?
3. How important is the adjustable cheek piece. The M40A3/A5 is adjustable and the crusader is not. Although I see the comb on the crusader seems to be higher and more in line with the bore. I have not used an adjustable stock, so I'm not sure how a recreational shooter will improve with this option.
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">4. I really like the idea of having an exact replica of the marine issue, but I also want the best gun for the money.</span></span>

Any input from ya'lll would be appreciated. The level of knowledge on this site is a great benefit to us amateurs.

</div></div>

Just pay your local USMC recruiter a visit. I'm sure he can find you exactly what you're looking for. And best of all you won't have to pay a dime. </div></div>

Except for perhaps your life in questionable military conflicts.

Just sayin'.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

Does GAP only biuld the models they list or will they still build what you want?

Of the two I'd do a Crusader and see if they had a two piece stock laying around to stick a KMW cheekpiece adjuster in.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I'd say it's all up to you! I used to be worried about what people would say when they saw the rifle I pulled out of the bag, but it's all about what you want. Personally I like the M40A3, because I have one and always seem to reach for it when I go shooting.

As far as joining the Marines......it's idiotic to think they'll make you a scout sniper just because you like their rifles!!!

I'd love to see the actual number of members here that ARE snipers.

 

[neeley205]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

+1 for crusader.
They still build custom orders. Just called mine in a couple weeks ago.

 

[eleaf]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does GAP only biuld the models they list or will they still build what you want?

Of the two I'd do a Crusader and see if they had a two piece stock laying around to stick a KMW cheekpiece adjuster in.

</div></div>

I literally just called in a custom rifle from GAP today.

Templar Action in .308
20" Bartlein 1:11.25 Varmint Contour (fluted, threaded with thread protector)
Badger M5 DM
Am sending in my HS Precision PST 083 as the stock (studs replaced with pic rail)


Barreled action and rings in Milspec OD Green
Stock in 6 color multi-cam

Give them a call. They'll build whatever you want.

Mine is basically a Crusader with a different stock and shorter barrel.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say it's all up to you! I used to be worried about what people would say when they saw the rifle I pulled out of the bag, but it's all about what you want. Personally I like the M40A3, because I have one and always seem to reach for it when I go shooting.

<span style="color: #CC0000">As far as joining the Marines......it's idiotic to think they'll make you a scout sniper just because you like their rifles!!!

I'd love to see the actual number of members here that ARE snipers.</span> </div></div>

I don't think anyone here said that. It is certainly an option that can be attained if one sets their sights on it though.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

GAP's M40A3 is a great shooter, you could have had one built with a Templar action for an upcharge. Schneider barrels are excellent and are on the Tubb 2K and SpecTacLR rifles, the M40A1, A3 and A5. You can also order a M40A1, 3 or 5 in 260Rem or other chambering with the same boltface as the 308Win. There are lots of choices!

 

[7mmRM]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

M40A3/5

 

[Sniper52]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I personally like the M40A3 or A5. GAP will build what you want. You just have to know what it is you like. As for the twist rate question 1 in 12 is fine but it is designed at 24" on the A3 if you want a different barrel length you should research what will work the best at the length you want and bullet you will be shooting. I am using a 1 in 11 in my A5 build since I want a 22" barrel. JAA

 

[KLin]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

GAP would be very happy to build you a rifle with whatever components you wish, if you wanted to start with one of our production guns and make changes off it, we can do that too.

 

[sosicmcise]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

I would go with the lighter of the two, the M40A5 is heavy as hell. If your plan is to take it out of your car/truck and lay in the prone and shoot, then they'll both shoot like a house on fire. If you need to carry a rifle, and 60+ lbs of gear on your back, up the side of a mountain for a week at a time, get the lighter rifle.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">On the barrel twist top</span>ic:</span>
Class after class of Marines pass the marksmanship portion of the Scout Sniper Basic Course shooting factory ammo down a 1-12 twist Schneider barrel, at moving and stationary targets from 100-1,000 yards. Marines pass multiple shooting quals in the wind, rain, lying in the dirt, with limited time, under stress of going home and labeled a failure upon their return. Many students are shooting a schoolhouse gun and many of those guns have over 5,000 rounds down the tube as well. Some of the most impressive shooting i've ever seen was done by a 21 year old Lance Corporal shooting a beat to hell M40A3 with over 8,000 rounds in the logbook (again, with a 12 twist barrel). If I had handed him a Crusader, i'm sure he would have performed the same. It was the driver, not the car.

George's crusader has all the accuracy you could ever ask for in a bolt action rifle and it doesn't weigh a ton. Get the one that make you feel the happiest!

 

[moccw]

Re: GAP M40A3 or Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sosicmcise</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with the lighter of the two, the M40A5 is heavy as hell. If you're plan is to take it out of your car/truck and lay in the prone and shoot, then they'll both shoot like a house on fire. If you need to carry a rifle, and 60+ lbs of gear on your back, up the side of a mountain for a week at a time, get the lighter rifle.

George's crusader has all the accuracy you could ever ask for in a bolt action rifle. </div></div>

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