GAP10 Range Report and Review

[BattleAxe]

I’m going to preface this review with one word…jeezthisfreakinthingissweet. I’m getting that out of the way just in case one of my observations is perceived to be negative. In that event, remember to reference that word because nothing I experienced with this weapon today will change that impression.

This rig was an upgrade from a DPMS SASS which I just passed along to my son. I had a fair amount of trigger time on that stick so I should be able to draw some comparisons and answer the age old question…”why spend that much more on an auto”? The best way to answer that is to equate them both to autos. The SASS is much like a mustang…very fast, muscular, but a bit utilitarian and clunky whereas the G10 is more like a Corvette…sleek sexy lines, fast, handles like it’s on rails, and just feels tighter and lighter on the road. It goes without saying that if you’re either a Stang or Vette hater this comparison will be lost on you so let’s not go down the Ford vs Chevy road.

I started at 100yds to re-zero the USO which came off of the SASS. In fact this was my 1st USO that has been worn by several (4) different rifles and has around 8000 rounds on it, and it’s been beat on a little. I mention this because I gotta give props to this scope as it still tracks flawlessly. If I need a correction I simply dial it once and it’s there.

This right row was shot 1st using FGMM 168’s

I only shot 6 targets at 100 to achieve the desired result before moving out to 200. The right bottom target was shoot-clean-shoot with 2 round strings for a total of 10 rounds. I chose 2 rounds vice one round between cleanings mostly due to how the bore felt running a patch through it. By comparison when breaking in the SASS the bore felt rough for the 1st 10-20 rounds. Not the G10…the bore felt slick and smooth from the 1st cleaning and fouled very little in between so I felt one round between cleanings was goofy.

The top right target was the second fired and the spread was due solely from making final adjustments to the EREK. The right center target was with final zero. If you’re asking yourself why I shot these targets in this particular order it’s because when I shot both the top and bottom targets for the first time, my POA was actually the center target. Remember the USO came off a SASS zero so my elevation changed. I simply dialed in the correction and moved to the target I actaully hit so as to save me a few trips down range. There were no fliers in that row and they all hit pretty much where I called them.

After that I shot the left row with 175’s starting at the bottom. True to form I’ve found 175’s to shoot low and left from an AR10 zeroed with 168’s. After dialing the correction I finished with the top 2. I don’t want to call the strays “fliers” because they went exactly where I called them….I was rushing to head over the 200yd line and pulled a few.

The 200 yard line was like entering the twilight zone. As I was hanging my target the sky opened up as you can see from the wet targets. By the time I made it back to the shed I was drenched to the skin. I shot this target board with water running into my eyes. Just my luck I had no towel and my shirt was dripping wet and useless, so I used cleaning patches to dry my eyes. I started with the 10 shot group at the top right taking the obligatory 3 seconds between shots.

After that I did a clean and things went downhill. I had a failure to feed on the next mag. I cycled another round and decided to eject it without firing to check things out and it was stuck in the chamber. WTF? With some gentle persuasion I got the bolt back and decided to clean the chamber which was a bit dirty but the next round also failed to feed so I checked out the mag which was a GAP supplied PMAG. I pushed the follower down and it…well…stayed there. OK, problem solved…got a sticky mag that I’ll massage/lube into shape when I get back to the compound. It bears mentioning that all the DPMS mags I had worked flawlessly.

Here’s where things get weird. Before shooting the last 5 targets I picked up a piece of brass that had missed the catcher and what I saw was confusing. This was a FGMM 175 with a headstamp that simply read FC 10. Not noticing this before I opened up a new box and these were NOT the FGMM’s I’m used to seeing. The brass was on the dirty side and the cases felt a bit sticky in my hand. I remember seeing this before and the answer was in my ammo bag…these appeared to be M118’s in a GMM box. I ordered 1.5 cases from CTD which was the same place I picked up a batch of M118 from several months ago. So again…WTF. Either CTD was putting these M118’s in GMM boxes or Federal was doing it. Either way I had no clue what I was actually shooting other than to say it grouped nicely.

Still dripping wet and a bit ticked off/confused over this ammo thing I still managed to print pretty nicely at 200 for the last 5 targets even though it was still raining pretty hard. I ran through the last 5 pretty quick to get it hot for some thermals which you’ll see below. Both the bolt face and chamber were relatively cool and the hottest part of the rifle was the barrel about 1-2 inches behind the gas block

Overall this thing is sweet. The SASS was every bit as accurate but it wasn’t as consistent or tight feeling. For example I have a JP bore guide that was a bit loose in the SASS and I had to hold it in place during cleaning. Not so in the GAP... It fit much tighter and brush extraction doesn’t pull it out of the upper. Same for the upper and lower…much tighter fit with the GAP.

I don’t know who makes the trigger but all I can say is “brilliant”. I’ve shot JP’s and Timneys and this trigger rocks. No discernable creep and very crisp. 1st shot feels around 3.5 lbs but seems a bit lighter for follow-ups off the reset. Best AR trigger I’ve tried to date. If I had one complaint (not really) it would be that the rifle was delivered bone dry, meaning there didn’t seem to be a drop of lube in it. I stripped it before heading the range to minimize any surprises so that’s really a non-issue.

Thermals...

The chamber was actusally hotter than the bolt face. The spotmeter wouldn't even lock on to the bolt face it was so cool.

Chamber

Just behind the gas block

Gas block

Bolt face was too cool (comparitively) to get a lock on it. It's the orange circle at top right. I was surprised at cool the bolt face was after 40 quick rounds

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

BattleAxe,

Nice review, In order to draw more of a contrast with a "low-dollar" rifle vs a "high dollar" rifle, it would be helpful if you had targets of the same ammo, at the same distance, so that a determination can be made of how one rifle shoots relative to the other. It would also be helpful if you can include the price of both rifles in your write-up.

You also mentioned that the SASS is everybit as accurate as the GAP-10, but groups are not as consistently tight. Could this be due to the ammo, shooter, or some other factor?

I think your review is very insightful...Just because you pay $3,000 or more for a rilfe doesn't mean that its more reliable, accurate or otherwise "better" than a lower priced rifle of the same design. In fact, i would wager that the DPMS SASS, if equipped with the same barrel & trigger would be every bit the equal of the GAP10.

Again, nice rifle, nice write-up. Love ur thermal imaging. Btw, this thread is worthless without pics!

Just my $0.02.

 

[ogonzalez13]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

Dont quote me but I thing those Fed 175s marked FC 10 in Gold medal boxes are Federal Gold Medal 7.62x51 and not 308. I recently bought some fed. Gold marked with 7.62x51 and that is what is stamped on the case.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BattleAxe,

Nice review, In order to draw more of a contrast with a "low-dollar" rifle vs a "high dollar" rifle, it would be helpful if you had targets of the same ammo, at the same distance, so that a determination can be made of how one rifle shoots relative to the other. It would also be helpful if you can include the price of both rifles in your write-up.

You also mentioned that the SASS is everybit as accurate as the GAP-10, but groups are not as consistently tight. Could this be due to the ammo, shooter, or some other factor?

I think your review is very insightful...Just because you pay $3,000 or more for a rilfe doesn't mean that its more reliable, accurate or otherwise "better" than a lower priced rifle of the same design. In fact, i would wager that the DPMS SASS, if equipped with the same barrel & trigger would be every bit the equal of the GAP10.

Again, nice rifle, nice write-up. Love ur thermal imaging. Btw, this thread is worthless without pics!

Just my $0.02. </div></div>

Thanks. My comment about consistency/accuracy is in this context...

I judge an autos performance mostly by consistency. My Sass was able to shoot between 1/2 and 1 moa but that's mostly meaningless. If I were to hang 10 targets I could shoot 6 out of 10 sub-moa, regardless of group size. I call that a 60 percenter.

The GAP is likely an 70-80 percenter and I say this based on my called shots...they went exactly where I called them and I believe based on what Ive seen today I can get 70-80 percent consistency, NOT necessarily tighter groups. Although I think that this will also be the case, even if only slightly smaller. Factor in that I have limited trigger time with the GAP and only 100 rounds through the bore. Hell...I hadn't even dry-fired it but once before shooting it.

Unless you're a freak I doubt there's anyone out there (or very few humans) that are 100 percenters with an auto in their hands. My guess is that most average-to-decent shooters are 30-50 percenters.

The best group I ever shot with the SASS was about 3/8 moa so I know the gun is capable of it but what's important in an auto is not what its capable of...it how often its capable of doing it and I say this due to the number of variables affecting the round. It took numerous range trips and hundreds of rounds to get one group that size so it could be called a fluke. By comparison the 4th group I shot with the G10 during break-in was around the same size and that's with limited trigger time and a rifle that's not yet achieved its full accuracy potential

The "percenter" theory is my own theory of judging an auto's performance. It something you can actually measure. Group size is nice but if it won't group when you need it to it does you no good. I can see and measure the increase in consistency shooting the GAP but you really can't gather that from viewing someone elses targets since you're not calling the shots.

Does that make sense?

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because you pay $3,000 or more for a rilfe doesn't mean that its more reliable, accurate or otherwise "better" than a lower priced rifle of the same design. In fact, i would wager that the DPMS SASS, if equipped with the same barrel & trigger would be every bit the equal of the GAP10.</div></div>

I think I would agree with you on this though, even if only partially. Could you say that a GAP-10 is $1300-ish better than a SASS? In the context of where an auto really shines (rapid fire) I think I'd say no but when you factor in fit/finish, ergonomics, and consistency, there is a difference. I really don't have a harsh word to say about the SASS though. I loved it, and now my son loves it so it's a win-win. Truth be told I didn't get a GAP10 because I thought it was better...I got one becaue I could

 

[post_tensioned]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

Nice review. As far as the ammo, I've shot a bunch of the stuff. If you look on the box, it say 175gr 7.62x51 vs. 308, which the Federal also makes. The biggest difference I have seen and read was that the 7.62 stuff uses a crimped primer, primer sealant and they do not polish the cases, which makes it different from the 308 175gr stuff. I've shot about 1000rds of the 7.62 and about 500 rounds of the 175gr 308 through my SR-25 and I can say that the 308 stuff is more accurate, averages .75 moa in my gun vs. just at 1 moa for the 7.62. Also, this is not M118LR, I've shot the two side by side through a crono and the 7.62 Federal is about 80 fps slower.

 

[sinister]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

Group size will help determine a rifle's precision but is not the bottom line for performance.

Standard military and NRA highpower targets are generally liberal as far as objective size -- the X-ring is typically 1 to 1 1/2 MOA at 200-300 yards (with the SR-C); at 500-600 (MR); and at 800, 900, and 1,000 (LR).

A good shooter, doping winds well and using nothing more than a sling should shoot about 90-94% from standing, sitting, and prone positions with iron sights; a Master 95-97%; and a very, very good shooter 97-99% of the time, day in, day out, given some fairly liberal time standards and fair-to-excellent conditions.

Snipers should do about the same given a telescope and bipod and shooting only from the prone at random targets from 300 to 800 yards using a 7.62mm rifle (bolt or autoloader).

Benchrest precision is nice but comes at a cost for custom fitting, tighter tolerances, and optics. The shooter still has to judge range, drop, winds, and other atmospherics.

Apples and oranges -- it sounds like you got a really nice rifle.

Try some 168 Match Kings. A 308 that won't shoot those well is broken.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: post_tensioned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice review. As far as the ammo, I've shot a bunch of the stuff. If you look on the box, it say 175gr 7.62x51 vs. 308, which the Federal also makes. The biggest difference I have seen and read was that the 7.62 stuff uses a crimped primer, primer sealant and they do not polish the cases, which makes it different from the 308 175gr stuff. I've shot about 1000rds of the 7.62 and about 500 rounds of the 175gr 308 through my SR-25 and I can say that the 308 stuff is more accurate, averages .75 moa in my gun vs. just at 1 moa for the 7.62. Also, this is not M118LR, I've shot the two side by side through a crono and the 7.62 Federal is about 80 fps slower. </div></div>

Yup. That's what it is...7.62's. Oh well, it won't last long.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Btw, this thread is worthless without pics!
</div></div>

True

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Group size will help determine a rifle's precision but is not the bottom line for performance.

Standard military and NRA highpower targets are generally liberal as far as objective size -- the X-ring is typically 1 to 1 1/2 MOA at 200-300 yards (with the SR-C); at 500-600 (MR); and at 800, 900, and 1,000 (LR).

A good shooter, doping winds well and using nothing more than a sling should shoot about 90-94% from standing, sitting, and prone positions with iron sights; a Master 95-97%; and a very, very good shooter 97-99% of the time, day in, day out, given some fairly liberal time standards and fair-to-excellent conditions.

Snipers should do about the same given a telescope and bipod and shooting only from the prone at random targets from 300 to 800 yards using a 7.62mm rifle (bolt or autoloader).

Benchrest precision is nice but comes at a cost for custom fitting, tighter tolerances, and optics. The shooter still has to judge range, drop, winds, and other atmospherics.

Apples and oranges -- it sounds like you got a really nice rifle.

Try some 168 Match Kings. A 308 that won't shoot those well is broken.

</div></div>

Which is why I measure the way I do. If I were to superimpose a 10 ring over my targets, I'd shoot way higher scores, easily in the mid-to-high 90's percentile. My system of scoring myself during practice results in lower scores. So yes...apples and oranges as far as scoring methods go but I feel it helps to better judge a rifle since the variables are spread out over a larger sample. When I score myself at a practice round it doesn't matter if they'd be in the 10 ring...if they weren't also a sub-minute group that target would rate a zero. So if I were shooting 10 targets I would have just lost 10% of my score. So for example when I call the SASS a 60 percenter, its based on my scoring method and is not necessarily an indication of what the rifle will do lets say during a single match leg in any given shooters hands. I'm sure that sounds goofy but it has really improved my shooting and makes it very easy to spot trends and find equipment problems.

 

[KYS]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

What mount are you using for your scope?

 

[cooper_257]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

that mount would be a AADMOUNT 20 MOA

 

[Flynn]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What mount are you using for your scope? </div></div>

I immediately thought the same question. Thanks for sharing the range report.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cooper_257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that mount would be a AADMOUNT 20 MOA </div></div>yup

 

[daveog]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

How is the weight and balance of the GAP-10 compared to the SASS?

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daveog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is the weight and balance of the GAP-10 compared to the SASS? </div></div>

Because of the quad rail on the SASS it "feels" a bit clunky by comparison but the weight difference is around 1/2-1 pound. With both rifles dressed out equally...USO SN3 3.2x17 TPAL and a full mag the G10 weighs in at 18 lbs, the SASS if I remember correctly was 18.5-19. The GAP is fairly heavy loaded but its sleeker design makes it feel lighter and more tossable. It also bears mentioning that I have a 20" barrel on the GAP. The SASS barrel is massive so with the quad rail its a bit nose heavy. Keep in mind these weights were on a fish scale so they may be off. Unless of course I'm weighing in the "big one"

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

Some other observations...the 3 holes you can see in the bolt carrier expel enough gas to knock stuff off the bench. My brass catcher took a tumble on the first shot so I had to weigh it down. Also during cleaning I found that the firing pin has a spring on the tail. Never seen that before and I'm not sure of its function.

 

[japple]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

I really liked your review. I am looking at purchasing one of these, and I know the accuracy will be there, but reading that the ergonomics are as good as they are is nice to here. The consistency is a big factor too. ZGreat review.

 

[problemchild]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some other observations...the 3 holes you can see in the bolt carrier expel enough gas to knock stuff off the bench. My brass catcher took a tumble on the first shot so I had to weigh it down. <span style="font-weight: bold">Also during cleaning I found that the firing pin has a spring on the tail. Never seen that before and I'm not sure of its function.</span>

</div></div>

It keeps the kinetic forward energy of the pin from slamming into the primer when feeding a round and denting it causing a possible discharge.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It keeps the kinetic forward energy of the pin from slamming into the primer when feeding a round and denting it causing a possible discharge. </div></div>
Interesting. Thanks.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

To give you an idea of what this is actually capable of, here's a closeup of the bottom left 100 yard target. That's a 5 round group under 1/2 moa and is the smallest group I've ever fired from any rifle.

 

[JasonB]

Re: GAP10 Range Report and Review

I still get a dimple on my primer even with the spring... Small but it's there...