Garmin Xero C1 Pro chronograph

#1,851
OREGUN said:
Anyone noticed any unusual effects of being farther than 15 inches back (outside of the recommended alignment window) from the muzzle using a nodal slide?
Click to expand...
I got the amazon special mount in today

So I'll test this weekend and report back as I still have two that I can compare.
I'll try to video like I did with the 22s placement testing.

Plan is to test one on heavier side as well as lighter side to see if recoil shows a difference either way.

If anyone has some ideas on specific parameters to test while comparing the two let me know.
 
#1,852
OREGUN said:
Anyone noticed any unusual effects of being farther than 15 inches back (outside of the recommended alignment window) from the muzzle using a nodal slide?
Click to expand...
We compared our units today. My friend had his on an arca mount all the way back to his mag well. I would say about 28 inches from the muzzle and I set mine up at the recommended 5”/15” the difference was 4 FPS consistently
 
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#1,853
Another redundant range report:
First time out with my Garmin.
Ran a HK VP9/ suppressed 22lr/ linear comped 10in AR over it. Only missed shots was when I selected wrong speed range for 22lr.

Unit is easy to run, literally throw it down in general direct of fire & go.

Shooters on Both sides on indoor range (Literally impossible for my LR) gave the Garmin no problem.

Rarely have I seen a product hit the market that was this much of a game changer.
 
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#1,857
D16er said:
I keep seeing these are slower than Magnetospeed and Labradar, is that the case?

I only use a chronograph to get balistics for hunting, does 10ft per second really matter?
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I tend to think it's just a function of where each one picks up the bullets speed. @ muzzle or 20-30' out in front ect.... I could be wrong but as long as the same chrono is used to do your work up it really won't matter. Also, I think everyone trues their data at distance anyway so it truly won't matter if so.
 
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#1,859
I've seen reports on a few forums and "YouTube" of the velocities being very very close to the LabRadar and Magnetospeed (just a couple fps at most). Part of the 'Clear' distance in front of the Xero may be to reduce to magnitude of the 'Return Signal' off target boards, the berm, etc. in front of the radar antenna. I bet it picks up the bullet long before that. Mounting way back from the muzzle, the barrel may mask part of the signal receiving cone, causing the bullet signal to not show for a few feet.
The Xero may take some flight distance to calculate a velocity and the return from a small bullet can be swamped by a large return or masked by a barrel but I think the recommendation to place the unit 5" to 15" behind the muzzle shows me it's looking for a moving bullet within a few feet.

If you use a calculator for velocity, a 55gr .224 bullet @ 2800fps (muzzle) has lost 7fps in 2 yards, 14fps in 4 yards, 28fps in 8 yards. Are people seeing that much lower readings with the Xero over the LR?
 
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#1,860
I posted this a few days after release day. My Xero has given me a few FPS faster numbers. I also confirmed yesterday with my rimfire. It was avg 1125 and the LR has given me 1119 with the same ammo and barrel with similar conditions.
As someone mentioned above, does a few FPS difference matter? To me, no. Data gets trued down range. Always.
IMG_0864.jpeg
 
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#1,861
Rocketvapor said:
I've seen reports on a few forums and "YouTube" of the velocities being very very close to the LabRadar and Magnetospeed (just a couple fps at most). Part of the 'Clear' distance in front of the Xero may be to reduce to magnitude of the 'Return Signal' of target boards, the berm, etc. in front of the radar antenna. I bet it picks up the bullet long before that. Mounting way back from the muzzle, the barrel may mask part of the signal receiving cone, causing the bullet signal to not show for a few feet.
The Xero may take some flight distance to calculate a velocity and the return from a small bullet can be swamped by a large return or masked by a barrel but I think the recommendation to place the unit 5" to 15" behind the muzzle shows me it's looking for a moving bullet within a few feet.

If you use a calculator for velocity, a 55gr .224 bullet @ 2800fps (muzzle) has lost 7fps in 2 yards, 14fps in 4 yards. Are people seeing that much lower readings with the Xero over the LR?
Click to expand...
I've shot 100 rounds of various calibers by the garmin and the labradar at the same time. Just got the garmin last week. The most I've seen so far is a 8fps difference between the two. Everything I've shot has been 6.5, 7mm, and 30 cal. Haven't shot anything smaller by both of them at the same time. Labradar will be going to a good home very soon.
Edited... My garmin has always been slower than LR.
 
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#1,863
No, calculates a single velocity per shot.
Could it be redesigned for close in and farther out velocities (couple or more readings per shot?)
Maybe.

The physical layout looks like it has a 24ghz printed circuit panel antenna less than 2X3 inches.
Similar to automotive radar sensors but without the wide beamwidth modifications needed for cars.
The transmitted signal is likely at least 30 degrees wide between half power points and is NOT a cone that starts as a point source. It comes off the entire panel.
Seems it would be easy to get several inches of barrel in the way of the 2"X 3" 30° 'cone'.
A beam width of 30° (+/- 15) gives a beam 1 yard wide @ 2 yards. Probably why it doesn't pickup the next shooter on the line.
The setup instructions imply that best accuracy is with an off-axis alignment from 5" to 15" and 5" to 15" behind the muzzle.

The Labradar has 4.84dbm transmitting power, a 22 dbi antenna with a half power beam width of 7.6° x 18.5° (Transmit).
Sounds like about 3 mw feeding a 22 dbi antenna for a effective radiated power of about 450mw.
The Xero has 18.68 dBm maximum transmit power, or about 75mw including antenna gain.
My guess is about 1.5mw transmitter with a 17 dbi antenna.
1/3 the transmit power with a smaller antenna (less gain) than the LR for about 1/6 the effective radiated power.
 
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#1,865
Rocketvapor said:
No, calculates a single velocity per shot.
Could it be redesigned for close in and farther out velocities (couple or more readings per shot?)
Maybe.

The physical layout looks like it has a 24ghz printed circuit panel antenna less than 2X3 inches.
Similar to automotive radar sensors but without the wide beamwidth modifications needed for cars.
The transmitted signal is likely at least 30 degrees wide between half power points and is NOT a cone that starts as a point source. It comes off the entire panel.
Seems it would be easy to get several inches of barrel in the way of the 2"X 3" 30° 'cone'.
A beam width of 30° (+/- 15) gives a beam 1 yard wide @ 2 yards. Probably why it doesn't pickup the next shooter on the line.
The setup instructions imply that best accuracy is with an off-axis alignment from 5" to 15" and 5" to 15" behind the muzzle.

The Labradar has 4.84dbm transmitting power, a 22 dbi antenna with a half power beam width of 7.6° x 18.5° (Transmit).
Sounds like about 3 mw feeding a 22 dbi antenna for a effective radiated power of about 450mw.
The Xero has 18.68 dBm maximum transmit power, or about 75mw including antenna gain.
My guess is about 1.5mw transmitter with a 17 dbi antenna.
1/3 the transmit power with a smaller antenna (less gain) than the LR for about 1/6 the effective radiated power.
Click to expand...
Being someone who works RF SATCOM and electromagnetic warfare, this post makes me happy.
 
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#1,868
@CSTactical Probably has more in stock or on order, they just started shipping their backorders this week, so if you are good with listed price and don't want to have to pay extra for someones "I ordered too many" thing then you might go check and see if they have more left from the big lot that came in.

Some guy in the PX was selling his "I ordered too many" for almost $100 over what a unit from CSTactical would run landed.
(Apparently it's not kosher to point that out in a sale thread).
 
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#1,872
W54/XM-388 said:
@CSTactical Probably has more in stock or on order, they just started shipping their backorders this week, so if you are good with listed price and don't want to have to pay extra for someones "I ordered too many" thing then you might go check and see if they have more left from the big lot that came in.

Some guy in the PX was selling his "I ordered too many" for almost $100 over what a unit from CSTactical would run landed.
(Apparently it's not kosher to point that out in a sale thread).
Click to expand...


Actually, we have had multiple shipments since it's release. That picture from Monday was just the most we had on hand at one time :)
We have shipped over 90+ so far, hopefully another 15 today (c'mon Fed Ex) and even more next week. So far we have been exceeding our estimates from the pre-orders.
 
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#1,874
I’m still amazed till this day at how easy this is to use compared to the LR for rimfire. I hit the range this morning to prep for a match tomorrow. Laid down on my shooting mat and set the Xero right next to me and started shooting all within a minute or so. No aiming involved. Just faced it towards my target. Picked up 70/70 I fired. Thinking back to just a month ago I would have had to set up the damn LR, aim it, set up the mic, arm it, and hope it will pick up the rounds. Such a PITA. But kudos to those who “never ever had an issue picking up any rounds and worked 60% of the time every time.”

All the “only time will tell” thoughts are hogwash now.
 
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#1,884
I hate to be the first guy to identify one very minor limitation of the device, but I tried to test it with a pellet rifle in the garage this evening shooting at a target that was only 6 feet away and it would not register under those conditions

So for those of you sighting your pellet rifles indoors at short range, you might be out of luck lol
 
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#1,886
secondofangle2 said:
I hate to be the first guy to identify one very minor limitation of the device, but I tried to test it with a pellet rifle in the garage this evening shooting at a target that was only 6 feet away and it would not register under those conditions

So for those of you sighting your pellet rifles indoors at short range, you might be out of luck lol
Click to expand...

You are not the first and why do you think it's a limitation? The instructions tell you that you need 20 yards to backstop. You can still sight-in closer you just can't capture the velocity.
 
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#1,888
B y r o n said:
You are not the first and why do you think it's a limitation? The instructions tell you that you need 20 yards to backstop. You can still sight-in closer you just can't capture the velocity.
Click to expand...
I was joking

I just couldn’t get to the range today so tested wherever I could just to see

If the rifle was 1000 fps, at 6’ that’s 6 milliseconds and most electronics can’t respond that fast so I’m not surprised
 
#1,889
I think that 6 milliseconds is plenty of time for something traveling the speed of light (the radar) and an internal clock less than a microsecond (just one megahertz). The 20 yards or so needed is to reduce the reflection of a target board, berm, garage wall that would be massive compared to the radar reflection from a pellet or bullet. The radar signal is on continuously getting a reflection from anything in the path. Think of the target as a large reflector to a flashlight (like a mirror). Look through an illuminated IR nightscope pointed at a mirror 6 feet away and see if you can find a mouse.
Try the pellet gun with a clear path of several yards (no walls or big backer boards) and a SMALL target about an inch or two in diameter about 3 to 5 yards away. Tennis ball on a string with no close reflectors?
Processing time to arm the counter, calculate velocity, display the results, and arm to display second shot might be a couple of seconds.
I can see missing split times of a fraction of a second.

Also, keep in mind the radar signal is a cone and how far out the projectile intercepts that signal cone might determine the distance for velocity calculations. The LabRadar manual gives an example for 'Dopler Mode' that shows off axis use.
For rifle mounting, get down and look where it's mounted for the barrel blocking part of the signal.
 
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#1,890
secondofangle2 said:
I hate to be the first guy to identify one very minor limitation of the device, but I tried to test it with a pellet rifle in the garage this evening shooting at a target that was only 6 feet away and it would not register under those conditions

So for those of you sighting your pellet rifles indoors at short range, you might be out of luck lol
Click to expand...
I just got mine from CS Tactical and had to take it to the basement to test it with my air pistol. One odd thing cropped up, it worked flawlessly on every pellet I shot over it except a domed crosman premier. I had to move the garmin closer to get it to read. Funny thing is with other domed pellets it doesn't seem to matter.Maybe the crosmans are stealthy! LOL At any rate this thing is a game changer and I've finally retired my Oehler 33 that I bought in 1984 for $300. Pretty good investment amortized over almost 40yrs. Garmin has a winner with this one!
 
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#1,892
The wife and I made a 600yd F-Class match today.
Set up the Xero (I know it's against the NRA rules) and it did great.
Didn't drop a shot and I tried various positions. Would move it towards my position when I shot and back closer to her when she shot.
Scores weren't terrible and my new barrel has sped up. Guess it's time for some more load work.
Nov-Match-Flo.jpg

Relays on an Android phone.
22 Nosler with 85.5 Bergers. Mine is on the right.
Nov-Match.jpg
 
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#1,893
My Grey Ops Inc. Garmin XERO mount showed up today. VERY impressed! Nice clean smooth anodizing. Very nice CNC work. And it was a very thought-out design. I really love the solid-lockup on the QD picatinny setup (circled in red in the pic below). It would work very well on an AR with a quadrail, or a rifle with a pic rail on the fore-end of the gun, or if you want to run it mostly on a tripod, like I will. The QD makes it quick and to remove and reinstall so I can carry the unit protected separately from the tripod in my bag.

I decided to mount my ARCA clamp with the lever on the INSIDE, not the outside (there's plenty of clearance to swing it), so it wouldn't be sticking out and get in the way, and get hung up on anything on the right side of the gun when using it on an ARCA rail. It came disassembled, so I test-fit everything and figured out that it was all reversible, and how I wanted to position the lever (inside or outside). Then I pulled it apart and put some Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the screws and let them sit for about 30 minutes for it to cure so nothing will vibrate loose while using it. Then reassembled it.

So far, I really like the mount. I'll give it a try at the range tomorrow, both on the tripod and on the ARCA mount, so I will see how close and consistent my readings are.

IMG_2786.jpeg
IMG_2787.jpegIMG_2788.jpegIMG_2784.jpegIMG_2785.jpegIMG_2791.jpegIMG_2789.jpeg
 
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#1,894
FuhQ said:
My Grey Ops Inc. Garmin XERO mount showed up today. VERY impressed! Nice clean smooth anodizing. Very nice CNC work. And it was a very thought-out design. I really love the solid-lockup on the QD picatinny setup (circled in red in the pic below). It would work very well on an AR with a quadrail, or a rifle with a pic rail on the fore-end of the gun, or if you want to run it mostly on a tripod, like I will. The QD makes it quick and to remove and reinstall so I can carry the unit protected separately from the tripod in my bag.

I decided to mount my ARCA clamp with the lever on the INSIDE, not the outside (there's plenty of clearance to swing it), so it wouldn't be sticking out and get in the way, and get hung up on anything on the right side of the gun when using it on an ARCA rail. It came disassembled, so I test-fit everything and figured out that it was all reversible, and how I wanted to position the lever (inside or outside). Then I pulled it apart and put some Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the screws and let them sit for about 30 minutes for it to cure so nothing will vibrate loose while using it. Then reassembled it.

So far, I really like the mount. I'll give it a try at the range tomorrow, both on the tripod and on the ARCA mount, so I will see how close and consistent my readings are.

View attachment 8275481View attachment 8275482View attachment 8275483View attachment 8275484View attachment 8275485View attachment 8275487View attachment 8275486
Click to expand...
How much is the full kit from them? It's sold out and won't show the price for the whole kit
 
#1,896
BuildingConceptsllc said:
How much is the full kit from them? It's sold out and won't show the price for the whole kit
Click to expand...
I think it was like $210 when I preordered mine. IMO, worth it, since I can keep the high-quality QD pic mount screwed onto the unit, and just swap the whole thing around to different mounting options, guns, rails, etc... by pushing a button and sliding it on/off the rail. The convenience factor is off the charts.

I just ordered a Pelican 1060/1062 setup off Amazon, so I can carry everything, including the mount, around in a nicely padded container. The small zip up pouch was nice, but it won't work with the mount, mini-tripod, unit, cable, etc...
 
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#1,898
If you plan on running it only on an aftermarket tripod (like me) and/or occasionally on your rifle's pic rail or quadrail itself, and will not be using ARCA, then just get the $80 QD mount, you won't need the arm & ARCA clamp. That QD mount is what makes the whole thing worth it, IMO. I went ahead and got the whole matching deal, just so I have a complete unit if I decide to run it on one of my ARCA chassis rifles, instead of on a tripod on the bench. One of those "buy once, cry once" or "better safe, than sorry" type of deals.
 
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#1,899
FuhQ said:
If you plan on running it only on an aftermarket tripod (like me) and/or occasionally on your rifle's pic rail or quadrail itself, and will not be using ARCA, then just get the $80 QD mount, you won't need the arm & ARCA clamp. That QD mount is what makes the whole thing worth it, IMO. I went ahead and got the whole matching deal, just so I have a complete unit if I decide to run it on one of my ARCA chassis rifles, instead of on a tripod on the bench. One of those "buy once, cry once" or "better safe, than sorry" type of deals.
Click to expand...
Yeah I like the idea of being able to do it any way I want to, but it's going to be kind of rare that I'd want to run it on a rifle at all. I may want to put it on my big tripod though, but I need to sift through the crap I already have for $230.00. It is cool and everything I have from them is all top notch gear
 
#1,900
BuildingConceptsllc said:
Yeah I like the idea of being able to do it any way I want to, but it's going to be kind of rare that I'd want to run it on a rifle at all. I may want to put it on my big tripod though, but I need to sift through the crap I already have for $230.00. It is cool and everything I have from them is all top notch gear
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then I'd go with the $80 QD mount, since it's the specialized part made to fit the XERO, and just pickup a small ARCA pic rail for your ball head on your tripod and call it a day. I didn't have any of that type of stuff laying in the scrap parts bins, or I would have tried to piece something together, as well.
 
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