Rifle Scopes Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

[Dark Horse]

I am in the market for a Schmidt&Bender 5-25x56 to top off a TRG-42. Need some feedback on these 2 reticles. Why would you take one over the other and are the advantages of the Gen 2 XR worth it to only have 56 moa of elevation adjustment(not that I have experience out past 1500 yards)?

Looking for comparisons on reticle thickness, ranging ability, holdovers, and speed of acquiring targets.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

P4F. I think you'll find the XL rets too thick for a 25x.


Edited- I was was speaking of the XL (my bad).

 

[dcjs]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.</div></div>
That doesn't quite work out this way around, the XR has 0.025 mil line thickness while the P4F has 0.035 mil.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

Don't think the Gen II XR is offered in the S&B. Where are you seeing it offered with the Gen II XR?

Also if you are getting a mil based reticle then get the mil knobs which have the equivalent to about 103 MOA of travel.

I have a P4F in my 5-25 and like it alot. Works great for everything and the thickness works fine on any power. It's a little harder to pick up at lower than 8x but I rarely go that low. Here are some pics I took at a 400 yard target. Left target is about 12"x17" and the round target is 8". The hashmarks at 5x are a little easier to see in person than on the pic. I am not good at taking pics through the scope.
5x

10x

15x

25x

 

[Tims]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

The Gen2 XR is no longer available from S&B. However it was at on@

o there are some S&B out there with the Gen2 XR.

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.

</div></div>

Not at all.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

Eurooptic has the 5-25 with the XR but moa elevation only. I would prefer the mil elevation but they said the scopes are really hard to come by.

It would seem that the MSR reticle that finnaccuracy was touting would be the ideal thickness but from what I understand it isn't going to happen.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

Where did you hear the MSA isn't going to happen?

On you original choices, get the P4F with mil knobs. It even saves you $100 according to their pricing online.

 

[lvmike]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.

</div></div>

Not at all.

</div></div>

Yup, total disagreement with that statement. My premiers 5-25 XR was the best ret I've used thus far.

The P4F is an ok reticle overall. My two complaints are that 1) the middle of the crosshair does not have half mil marks. 2) only the middle of the crosshair is illuminated, so if you ever shoot a night match-- enjoy trying to hold over with that.

The XR shares none of these problems and includes 10mil of hold over and a nice windage tree (albiet not a requirement for a good ret in my opinion).

Right now your best choice for a S&B ret is the klein. Although I will admit I have not seen it in a 5-25 as of yet, so I can't speak to line thickness. But it does have center half mil marks and is fully illuminated. It is basically s&b's version of the gen2XL

 

[sakohunter]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

In my last correspondence with the guys at Finn Accuracy, they were taking orders and quoting early 2011 delivery.

Whether S&B are singing from the same hymn sheet...who knows?

 

[i_rep]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

I know that the 4-16x42 and the 5x25x56 could both be found in milrad with the XR, but you have to really search to find them.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That doesn't quite work out this way around, the XR has 0.025 mil line thickness while the P4F has 0.035 mil.</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">David S.</span> is correct. This works out to .075" for the Gen 2 XR, and .126" for the P4F. So, <span style="font-style: italic">M.45</span>, which reticle's line thickness do you think is thicker?

<span style="font-weight: bold">PMII Gen 2 XR reticle diagram:</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P4F Reticle Diagram:</span>

Keith

 

[broke_again]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LVMIKE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.

</div></div>

Not at all.

</div></div>

Yup, total disagreement with that statement. My premiers 5-25 XR was the best ret I've used thus far.

The P4F is an ok reticle overall. My two complaints are that 1) the middle of the crosshair does not have half mil marks. 2) <span style="color: #FF0000">only the middle of the crosshair is illuminated, so if you ever shoot a night match-- enjoy trying to hold over with that</span>.

The XR shares none of these problems and includes 10mil of hold over and a nice windage tree (albiet not a requirement for a good ret in my opinion).

Right now your best choice for a S&B ret is the klein. Although I will admit I have not seen it in a 5-25 as of yet, so I can't speak to line thickness. But it does have center half mil marks and is fully illuminated. It is basically s&b's version of the gen2XL </div></div>

One of the main reasons that I would rather have the GEN II XR over the P4F.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that the 4-16x42 and the 5x25x56 could both be found in milrad with the XR, but you have to really search to find them. </div></div>
Thats' right, they are difficult to find. I bought two "German" PMII 5-25X MIL CW Gen 2 XRs' that I had S & B convert to CCW and they are a joy to use whether shooting tiny groups, steel, or F-Class!


Keith

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

I would rather not reveal the source other than to say they are credible throughout the industry. Just don't feel it is my place to speak on another party's behalf. I can say the reasoning for the delay/lack of movement is a funds issue to get the reticle produced.

I really hope it comes to fruition because from what I've seen its a great design. Since the shooting season is winding down for the most part here, I may wait until early 2011 to see if there is any progress.

 

[valentine]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

I vote for GEN 2 XR because you have a litable reticle that could be used for ranging whne the reticle is lit. What I mean is: the litable part of the reticle is bigger.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

I agree that I would rather have more of the reticle lit but before that I would rather have a matching reticle and knobs as that is going to get much more use than the occasional reticle illumination. I have used my S&Bs at many matches with night movers and only once found it to be more difficult to see and even then had no problems making hits.

If you can find the S&B 5-25x56 with the Gen II XR in the mil knobs then go for it but if not stick with matching knobs and reticle and get the P4F. It's much more useful to have matching knobs.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't think the Gen II XR is offered in the S&B. Where are you seeing it offered with the Gen II XR? </div></div>

You can find a S&B 5-25x PMII with Gen 2XR on eBay right now, Alex Roy is selling one (for example, see item 390014683100). But it has MOA turrets.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

I stand corrected! Good info thank you. I was thinking of my XL being thicker than my P4F, my mistake.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F. I think you'll find the XR rets too thick for a 25x.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David S.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That doesn't quite work out this way around, the XR has 0.025 mil line thickness while the P4F has 0.035 mil.</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">David S.</span> is correct. This works out to .075" for the Gen 2 XR, and .126" for the P4F. So, <span style="font-style: italic">M.45</span>, which reticle's line thickness do you think is thicker?

<span style="font-weight: bold">PMII Gen 2 XR reticle diagram:</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P4F Reticle Diagram:</span>

Keith </div></div>

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

Not the S&B but a couple of views through my USO SN3 at 17x with MPR mil reticle at 1000 yards. A visitor showed up in the right lower quadrant, middle picture.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

The GEN 2 XR is a great RET I have it in my S&B 4-16x42mm, Premier 3-15x50mm, and Premier 5-25x56mm. You my be able to find a USED S&B wit the GENII XR but if not you may what to look at getting a Premier Heritage.

I have used the P4F and it is nice but I personally prefer the GENII XR.

Mike @ CST

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: Gen 2 XR or P4F Reticle

For what reasons do you prefer the XR over the P4F Mike?