Gen 3 Razor vs Mark 5

[fvalmostthere]

Looking into upgrading from my sig tango 6. I love the scope and sig customer service has been great but I find myself seeing the need for .2 or .25 wind holds. I have a euro optic vortex cert so I could get the razor for 2250 after tax but I could also sell that and get the mark 5 for cheaper. Is the razor any better? I have 2 strike eagles on my 22 and practice gun so razor kinda makes sense but I like the pr2 reticle a little more myself. Is the glass and quality comparable? Thanks in advance.

 

[screaminweasil]

Razor is more than a step above any Mark 5. No brainer

 

[Covertnoob5]

It’s not even close. Mk5 is good for its price range at sub $2k. But the razor 3 is definitely tier 1.

 

[FuhQ]

Razor Gen3. No brainer!

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

Love my gen 3. I liked my mk5 a lot but the razor is optically better. I had the 5-25 though. I’ve heard the 7-35 is pretty darn good. The turrets are definitely something that vortex needs to fix. I’ve had a couple problems with it slipping down on me and the feel on the gen 2 is superior….to me anyway.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Razor is more than a step above any Mark 5. No brainer

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Until vortex fixes the turret issues with the Gen 3, its not even tier 2, which is where it would be. Lots of good optics in the 2-3K price range.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Until vortex fixes the turret issues with the Gen 3, its not even tier 2, which is where it would be. Lots of good optics in the 2-3K price range.

The turrets are definitely not great but the glass alone makes it at least tier 2 basically tier 1. Last 3 matches in actual use the turrets haven’t held me back. Running turret dialing tests vs my TT, mk5, ZCO, and Kahles DLR the timing was about the same. Sure the feel isn’t great but it doesn’t actually hold you back.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Thats the problem. Unit to unit variation is all over the place. Some are garbage and some are acceptable. Even the good ones and the "fixed" ones that had to be sent back to vortex, don't feel as good as the Gen 2 razor's turrets.

For a $3K optic, that is unacceptable.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Thats the problem. Unit to unit variation is all over the place. Some are garbage and some are acceptable. Even the good ones and the "fixed" ones that had to be sent back to vortex, don't feel as good as the Gen 2 razor's turrets.

For a $3K optic, that is unacceptable.

Yea but the fact that you can get these for far less than that without really trying it’s the best optic under $3k. I mean shit the 30% euro certs are out there like Candy. For $2100 there’s no optic close to the razor at that price.

 

[Islas82]

Razor is much better optically and the EBR7D is better in my opinion than the PR2. I like the turret design and feel on the MK5 better.

 

[superde]

I have both - Gen 3 Razor gets the vote.

 

[beetroot]

Yea but the fact that you can get these for far less than that without really trying it’s the best optic under $3k. I mean shit the 30% euro certs are out there like Candy. For $2100 there’s no optic close to the razor at that price.

Burris XTR Pro?
Probably not enough of them in the wild yet for the comparison to have been made.

 

[TheHorta]

Those who know #Barska.

 

[JakeM]

Those who know #Barska.

With your special reticle in it.

 

[Birddog6424]

Burris XTR Pro?
Probably not enough of them in the wild yet for the comparison to have been made.

I've had the Gen3 and XTR Pro alongside each other.

We had 5 guys and a 5 scope line up, also including a 27x ZCO, a 25x MK5, and a Cronus BTR. I wrote a lengthy write up on the XTR Pro thread.

Cliff's Notes; they are super close. Brightness and color are very close. I personally gave a slight nod to the Vortex in clarity. It was a heavy mirage day, and I felt the new Razor cut it just a hair better. They definitely did a great job with the glass on this scope. Others in the group thought they were pretty dead nuts.

The turrets are much nicer on the Pro, as well as the toolless zero stop. The Razor turrets were mushy, they were nicer on the GenII. Three reticle options on the Pro, as well as red or green illumination, and quick swap turrets. Its very feature rich.

There will be people who like either/or. The Razor is a very nice optic, it will be better when they get the turrets squared away. But its definitely not the only great option or the best option at that price point. The Pro is $2200 MAP without a cert.

Edit; And just to chime in for the OP, the Razor is much nicer glass and eyebox over the MK5. The Leupy and Cronus were the only two scopes out of our 5 that were unable to see a small mark on our 1000 yard plate that we were using to judge the clarity of the other three. The MK5 is a nice optic, lots of guys shooting for Leupy and winning matches. But between the two the Razor is nicer.

 

[fvalmostthere]

Seems like the gen 3 glass is better reading the comments, but the turrets kind of
suck. How bad are they? Have a club match this weekend hoping I can find one of each on the line and take a peak through them.

 

[Islas82]

Seems like the gen 3 glass is better reading the comments, but the turrets kind of
suck. How bad are they? Have a club match this weekend hoping I can find one of each on the line and take a peak through them.

They were bad enough for me to sell it but am a bit of a turret slut so take that into consideration. Optically is very very good though, very close to my ZCO.

 

[Stoweit]

Razor III over Mark 5 all day every day.

 

[5RWill]

They were bad enough for me to sell it but am a bit of a turret slut so take that into consideration. Optically is very very good though, very close to my ZCO.

Agreed, they're lacking. Better once I sent it off to Vortex and now got it mounted. I just posted a video in the razor thread but it's a step backwards from the Gen II. It's comparable to my NXS, which is not bad by any means but not up to today's standard for a $3000 optic.

Optically speaking it's the best glass for the money on the market bar none, even more so when you pick up the phone for what they can be had at.

 

[fvalmostthere]

Agreed, they're lacking. Better once I sent it off to Vortex and now got it mounted. I just posted a video in the razor thread but it's a step backwards from the Gen II. It's comparable to my NXS, which is not bad by any means but not up to today's standard for a $3000 optic.

Optically speaking it's the best glass for the money on the market bar none, even more so when you pick up the phone for what they can be had at.

Sounds good, I have a cert so 2250 after tax and shipping. But my original thought was to sell the cert and use that to make the mark 5 even cheaper but it seems it’s not really a contest. And for what I already have invested into this sport what’s another $600

 

[Im2bent]

Yea but the fact that you can get these for far less than that without really trying it’s the best optic under $3k. I mean shit the 30% euro certs are out there like Candy. For $2100 there’s no optic close to the razor at that price.

So this is not a derailment as the op has made his decision let me ask whats up with this I see these certs in the px a lot. Where is everybody gettting these things asking for a friend.

 

[Covertnoob5]

So this is not a derailment as the op has made his decision let me ask whats up with this I see these certs in the px a lot. Where is everybody gettting these things asking for a friend.

PRS matches are pretty filled with them right now.

 

[5RWill]

Sounds good, I have a cert so 2250 after tax and shipping. But my original thought was to sell the cert and use that to make the mark 5 even cheaper but it seems it’s not really a contest. And for what I already have invested into this sport what’s another $600

I think you’re making the right choice. I’ve had a mark 5 and i truthfully love the mark 5. Matter of fact I’m waiting on leupold to put the PR2 in the 3.6-18x44. But leupold is gonna leupold. But it’s not in the same realm as the Gen III. Turrets are better than the Gen III but that’s it.

 

[4O6shootist]

I've shot my gen3 rzr in 4 matches this year with plenty of movement on 2 min par times. I dial elevation and since switching from mk5hd to gen3, I dial wind. Never have the turrets been an issue. 90 second stage perhaps. But I wouldn't Dial wind there. Mk5hd windage turret hash mark, knowing where you're at is a fn joke. Basically it's a wind hold ONLY scope in any kind of time constraints, MY OPINION. Gen3 razr glass is as good/maybe better than zp5 minox, and 7-35 atacr in my personal scope comparisons. The depth of field, eyebox and field of view Smoke the mark5. You also get way more dial available. In my 20moa base, i have 25 mils of elevation on tap. Clarity is excellent. I owned and sold 3 xtr3, and never found a lot that i liked about them, maybe pro has glass with less blueish color tint, I never could quite get the diopter/parallax set correctly to perfectly focus reticle/target with no parallax present on either 3.3-18, the 5.5-30 I was able to. The Burris xtr3 does have good glass clarity though its sharp. The compactness of the 3.3-18, clarity, locking diopter, and available elevation with good scr2 reticle were the only good points of it I found. I paid close to 1200-1400 for them, and i felt the glass competed a lil better than price point, but the rest is what you paid for mid level optic with meat grinder knobs/turrets.

 

[Conqueror]

Mk5hd windage turret hash mark, knowing where you're at is a fn joke. Basically it's a wind hold ONLY scope in any kind of time constraints

I have a Mk5 3-18 and I like it for what I paid (1600 from BDU), but I completely agree with this. Putting the wind hash indicator off-center was a fucking stupid "look at me! I'm different!" thing to do and whoever signed off on it should get their ass handed to them.

 

[Paradox]

It’s not even close. Mk5 is good for its price range at sub $2k. But the razor 3 is definitely tier 1.

the only Leupold i'd buy is the Mark 8 becasue it the only one that has exposed tactical turrents including windage, all the rest are capped, i can't figure it as only them and Nightforce do that, and i don't buy the BS about oooohhh bumping it in the woods, my ass, i've never had my windage off, That said I own all Vortex, plus their warranties are insane, I tripped and dropped a brand new optic on the tile floor and messed up two of the turrets, I called for price they said none, emailed an overnight label to me, fixed in 1 day and overnighted back free of charge. and personally i think leupold and nightforce are living on namesake, the high end Vortex stuff is everybit as good, the only other scope i'm drooling for is a March, as they supposedly have about the best glass of any manufacturer or at the least as good as any big buck offering. and they have the highest magnification in the world to date and it would be way cool to have an 8x-80x56, since i can't see shit at max distance with the ever popular 5-25x50 or 56 offerings of others. and not bad at $3100

 

[Covertnoob5]

the only Leupold i'd buy is the Mark 8 becasue it the only one that has exposed tactical turrents including windage, all the rest are capped, i can't figure it as only them and Nightforce do that, and i don't buy the BS about oooohhh bumping it in the woods, my ass, i've never had my windage off, That said I own all Vortex, plus their warranties are insane, I tripped and dropped a brand new optic on the tile floor and messed up two of the turrets, I called for price they said none, emailed an overnight label to me, fixed in 1 day and overnighted back free of charge. and personally i think leupold and nightforce are living on namesake, the high end Vortex stuff is everybit as good, the only other scope i'm drooling for is a March, as they supposedly have about the best glass of any manufacturer or at the least as good as any big buck offering. and they have the highest magnification in the world to date and it would be way cool to have an 8x-80x56, since i can't see shit at max distance with the ever popular 5-25x50 or 56 offerings of others. and not bad at $3100

The mark 8 isn’t optically what the mark 5 is. The mark 5 is the best scope Leupold makes. The capped Wind is a a competitor request because on barricades or other things it can happen. I’ve seen it. And not many people need or want exposed windage cause especially in PRS most people aren’t dialing wind.
The March high master glass is their top of the line. If it’s a non high master scope then it’s not their top glass. 8-80 sounds cool, but 40x-80x is gonna be tough to use in mirage. I suppose it depends on where and what kinda shooting you do with it though.
The mark 5 and NF 7-35 are legitimately good scopes. There’s not really a full featured 5-25 scope in the same weight category as a MK5. And the 7-35 is very good at most everything. TT and Kahles are also uncapped windage as well.

 

[Poorboyr]

The mark 8 isn’t optically what the mark 5 is.

I have to completely disagree with you. I have both and the Mark 5 isn’t nearly as good optically as the Mark 8. The Mark 8 optically competes with the top tier guys.

But taking glass quality out of the equation, I think the Mark 5 is a better scope.

 

[Paradox]

That was per leupold they said if you have the means get the 8 especially since capped turrets are just an afterthought for those that run into stuff. So maybe ill just get all the major scopes and have one for every day of the week, last time it was motorcycles and managed 10 so technically lol

 

[chevy_man]

the only Leupold i'd buy is the Mark 8 becasue it the only one that has exposed tactical turrents including windage, all the rest are capped, i can't figure it as only them and Nightforce do that, and i don't buy the BS about oooohhh bumping it in the woods, my ass, i've never had my windage off, That said I own all Vortex, plus their warranties are insane, I tripped and dropped a brand new optic on the tile floor and messed up two of the turrets, I called for price they said none, emailed an overnight label to me, fixed in 1 day and overnighted back free of charge. and personally i think leupold and nightforce are living on namesake, the high end Vortex stuff is everybit as good, the only other scope i'm drooling for is a March, as they supposedly have about the best glass of any manufacturer or at the least as good as any big buck offering. and they have the highest magnification in the world to date and it would be way cool to have an 8x-80x56, since i can't see shit at max distance with the ever popular 5-25x50 or 56 offerings of others. and not bad at $3100

So leave the cap off? It's not like they put a slot adjustable turret under the cap, you can leave it off and dial all you want.
I had a vortex roll a few revs catching the edge of the gun case. That was the end of it for me. They will all lock or be capped if they go on my rifle.



I got to play with a 6-36 Gen 3 the other day. It's damn nice but the contrast was excessive. It looks good for a minute, then my eye gets tired of it.
If they had a cooler look to the glass I'd be looking for one. The super warm image just isn't what my eyes/brain like.

 

[Paradox]

i was just seeking a reason i can only assume those that run capped windage rely soley on the reticle to compensate after the initial zeroing at setup. That said i know its top notch stuff just wondered why they’re the only two olayers doing it with know ability to explain why. They did send me a buch of photos of the uncapped look complete with measurements if cap thickness etc. that said i just thought it should be an option when buying a component that gererslly can be 2x the price of the gun.

 

[Covertnoob5]

i was just seeking a reason i can only assume those that run capped windage rely soley on the reticle to compensate after the initial zeroing at setup. That said i know its top notch stuff just wondered why they’re the only two olayers doing it with know ability to explain why. They did send me a buch of photos of the uncapped look complete with measurements if cap thickness etc. that said i just thought it should be an option when buying a component that gererslly can be 2x the price of the gun.

They’re not the only 2 without capped windage.

 

[Paradox]

They’re not the only 2 without capped windage.

To clarify i was referring to the most well known and Tactical only, I know hunting stuff is most always capped, its more simple curiosity as neither Leupold nor NF can tell you, the is I don't know lol. for quality compared to the other big players, US Optics, Steiner, March, Kahles or anything else when you get in the 3-6000 range. and can anyone honestly say they can see a measurable difference at that level, heck Paul Phillips made that world record 7070 yard shot with a NF ATACR 7-35x56, not sure what that pic looks like, hell i've got uncorrected 20x20 and can't see shit at a thousand, i just wonder for the average enthusiest were the line between a sensible quality optic and another thats based on a price tag to impress. Whats your opinion?

 

[S3th]

-$2K: Burris XTR3i
-$3K: Razor G3

 

[b6graham]

-$2K: Burris XTR3i
-$3K: Razor G3

if you're paying $3k for a gen 3 you're dumb

 

[fvalmostthere]

if you're paying $3k for a gen 3 you're dumb

Forgot to check out your scope on Saturday, was in too big of a rush to make that 6 hour drive home.

 

[Paradox]

if you're paying $3k for a gen 3 you're dumb

That wasn't the point, point was where do you think the line is between price vs performance, My assumption is providing the optic is in line, that a skilled shooter won't shoot any better with a $4000 Steiner than he will with a $1800 NF, the question is what do you think is the best scope regardless of price. I'm guess more isn't always better

 

[b6graham]

That wasn't the point, point was where do you think the line is between price vs performance, My assumption is providing the optic is in line, that a skilled shooter won't shoot any better with a $4000 Steiner than he will with a $1800 NF, the question is what do you think is the best scope regardless of price. I'm guess more isn't always better

right but compare a $1200 XTR3 to a $2400 razor gen 3

i'd still take the razor...

but that $2400 razor competes with $2500-$3600 scopes (Leopold, Kahles, NF) all day

you have to damn near double the cost or more of a razor gen 3 to get to ZCO and TT level

 

[Paradox]

right but compare a $1200 XTR3 to a $2400 razor gen 3

i'd still take the razor...

but that $2400 razor competes with $2500-$3600 scopes (Leopold, Kahles, NF) all day

you have to damn near double the cost or more of a razor gen 3 to get to ZCO and TT level

 

[Covertnoob5]

To clarify i was referring to the most well known and Tactical only, I know hunting stuff is most always capped, its more simple curiosity as neither Leupold nor NF can tell you, the is I don't know lol. for quality compared to the other big players, US Optics, Steiner, March, Kahles or anything else when you get in the 3-6000 range. and can anyone honestly say they can see a measurable difference at that level, heck Paul Phillips made that world record 7070 yard shot with a NF ATACR 7-35x56, not sure what that pic looks like, hell i've got uncorrected 20x20 and can't see shit at a thousand, i just wonder for the average enthusiest were the line between a sensible quality optic and another thats based on a price tag to impress. Whats your opinion?

Kahles and TT are not capped.

 

[Paradox]

True, I read an article and it broke down what scopes the top pros use and the NF ATACR 7-35x56 was first by a large margin, then Kahels, with Vortex third and Scmidt & Bender 4th what surprised me is that Leupold was 3rd to last and 6 spots below bushnell which I always thought was a bargain brand. I own Vortex stuff and like it, I always searched around and got open box deals to save a buck, but i'm any NF owner will alwasy bust your balls. You know the attitude, your vette might spank some Ferrari but at the end of the day its still a Vette. Any heres the link its interesting.

Best Scope – What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the top ranked shooters in both the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and the Nationa...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[b6graham]

True, I read an article and it broke down what scopes the top pros use and the NF ATACR 7-35x56 was first by a large margin, then Kahels, with Vortex third and Scmidt & Bender 4th what surprised me is that Leupold was 3rd to last and 6 spots below bushnell which I always thought was a bargain brand. I own Vortex stuff and like it, I always searched around and got open box deals to save a buck, but i'm any NF owner will alwasy bust your balls. You know the attitude, your vette might spank some Ferrari but at the end of the day its still a Vette. Any heres the link its interesting.

Best Scope – What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the top ranked shooters in both the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and the Nationa...

precisionrifleblog.com

2018...

 

[Covertnoob5]

True, I read an article and it broke down what scopes the top pros use and the NF ATACR 7-35x56 was first by a large margin, then Kahels, with Vortex third and Scmidt & Bender 4th what surprised me is that Leupold was 3rd to last and 6 spots below bushnell which I always thought was a bargain brand. I own Vortex stuff and like it, I always searched around and got open box deals to save a buck, but i'm any NF owner will alwasy bust your balls. You know the attitude, your vette might spank some Ferrari but at the end of the day its still a Vette. Any heres the link its interesting.

Best Scope – What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the top ranked shooters in both the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) and the Nationa...

precisionrifleblog.com

It’s from 2018 and a terrible way to judge scopes lol the landscape has changed a lot since then. ZCO for example would be very well represented high on that list today.
That list is more about who has the largest marketing budget because all those shooters are sponsored. In terms of marketing power it isn’t too far off.

 

[CSTactical]

It’s from 2018 and a terrible way to judge scopes lol the landscape has changed a lot since then. ZCO for example would be very well represented high on that list today.
That list is more about who has the largest marketing budget because all those shooters are sponsored. In terms of marketing power it isn’t too far off.

Yeah 2019 when ZCO came out definitely changed the scope market big time...

 

[Birddog6424]

I shot the Koenig-Ruger match in Colorado this weekend. I squadded up with a good friend from Utah who is a big NF ATACR fan. He has a handful of them in every configuration.

He looked through my Pro for 10 seconds, fiddled with the parallax a bit, turned to me and said it's nicer glass than his ATACRs. That's as long as it took him to decide.

The market is changing. 2k to 2.5k is going to become a sweet spot in the market where you can get a scope that is within a hairsbreadth of the 3k to 3.5k optic. You'll have to spend more than that to see true quality optical separation.

 

[Paradox]

It’s from 2018 and a terrible way to judge scopes lol the landscape has changed a lot since then. ZCO for example would be very well represented high on that list today.
That list is more about who has the largest marketing budget because all those shooters are sponsored. In terms of marketing power it isn’t too far off.

Do they use off the shelf unmodified units or purpose built with the better glass etc or is it like the old moto cross days when your honda was $1500 and the factory guys bike was Hand built $80000 exotic.

 

[S3th]

if you're paying $3k for a gen 3 you're dumb

Where did I say that? When it comes to the sub $2K you cannot beat Burris's offerings. Just how Razor G3 > the sub $3K market.

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

The burris PRO is definitely intriguing. Hopefully they expand that line.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Do they use off the shelf unmodified units or purpose built with the better glass etc or is it like the old moto cross days when your honda was $1500 and the factory guys bike was Hand built $80000 exotic

I mean they’re using the same ones you can buy. Are their’s double spot checked by 3 different people before it leaves? Sure probably. Last thing you want is a sponsored guy with a scope that doesn’t track or the glass isn’t up to standard. But I’ve seen it happen too lol kinda funny when it does.