-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Rifle Scopes German vs Japanese glass....... dollar per dollar what's your take?
- Thread starter russkim04
- Start date
I’ll bite..
most of the glass you see is actually made in China.
They also make the majority of polishing equipment.
it’s more about the coatings and how many different coatings are the actual glass.
top of the line scopes...there is no difference.
buy what your eye likes
others a lot more knowledgeable than I will chime in but that’s some basics.
I personally don’t care where the scope comes from, what glass, who uses it etc
it has to look good to me, have a ret that I like, and track perfect.
if you dial and it’s not consistent, the best glass in the world will only allow you to spot your misses easier.
most of the glass you see is actually made in China.
They also make the majority of polishing equipment.
it’s more about the coatings and how many different coatings are the actual glass.
top of the line scopes...there is no difference.
buy what your eye likes
others a lot more knowledgeable than I will chime in but that’s some basics.
I personally don’t care where the scope comes from, what glass, who uses it etc
it has to look good to me, have a ret that I like, and track perfect.
if you dial and it’s not consistent, the best glass in the world will only allow you to spot your misses easier.
Both pretty good. Generally LOW or Zeiss do the grinding an polishing and coating.
There is a part of me that wonders (not all the time), but what is it about the Axis Powers of WW-II that make such great optics?
They made better tanks too. Lot of good it did them.
Lol, ‘I’ll bite’ and then answer a bunch of questions OP didn’t ask.
No sweat! I’d answer your original question directly, but I’ve never owned Japanese glass that I’m aware of.
It can be challenging confirming the origin of lenses.
Serious question: are the glass categories based on country of origin too broad to allow answering the OP question? From my limited experience in China, I am pretty sure manufacturing capabilities there are equal to the state of the art. It's possible that e.g. optics companies go to China mainly in search of cheaper glass, not better glass, so that would tend to skew the quality of the output.
Optical glass is still being made in Japan.
Here is a lovely longwinded reportage with plenty pictures and explanations of the manufacturing process:
Here is a lovely longwinded reportage with plenty pictures and explanations of the manufacturing process:
Glass for geeks: An in-depth tour of Nikon’s Hikari Glass factory
I've been on a lot of factory tours with various camera and lens manufacturers before, but had never had a chance to see how the optical glass was made that goes into the lenses we use every day. So I was really happy to receive…
www.imaging-resource.com
they should have spent less on glass and smuggled in a copy of the farmers almanac.
Would have told them it was going to be a bad winter in Russia
lol
Depends...
There is a big difference between the two. Some favors contrast, saturation, etc. more than the other.
There is a big difference between the two. Some favors contrast, saturation, etc. more than the other.
Yeah, and I'd bet you could never tell where it was from without the label. Individual lines from individual manufacturers can have wildly different glass. Country of origin is no guarantee of warm or cool colors, saturation, or CA.
Where the glass is made isn't a huge deal, but you can figure if it's Japanese or German it'll be good. Leupold had to change their "made in USA" because they order Japanese glass. So they're assembled and all the metal and plastic parts are made here, with glass they order to spec.
I think the big thing is the Japanese always want to do things efficiently and very precisely. Lots of pride. So they're ready to go on cost effective good glass.
Could just be my opinion but I reckon German glass will hold more value used than Japanese will. Not sure whether that's just the perception of it compared to Jap glass but it generally seems to be the case.
As a general rule, german/EU glass is better.
... we have to talk about "dollar for dollar"
just to make this a discussion.
The next question, is how many dollars? and what are they worth?
If you are looking at rifle optics, ±$2K japanese
is professional grade and will do the job IMHO.
$3500 is better, and all that, but that $1,500 can
buy you other stuff...
EG some nice swaro binos or leica LRF.
So if you don't have these things, saving $$ can make a difference.
Even if you do have these things, $1500 for another investment,
EG class//ammo/range time/training...also can make a difference...
Which difference is bigger? Is up for end user to figure out.
... we have to talk about "dollar for dollar"
just to make this a discussion.
The next question, is how many dollars? and what are they worth?
If you are looking at rifle optics, ±$2K japanese
is professional grade and will do the job IMHO.
$3500 is better, and all that, but that $1,500 can
buy you other stuff...
EG some nice swaro binos or leica LRF.
So if you don't have these things, saving $$ can make a difference.
Even if you do have these things, $1500 for another investment,
EG class//ammo/range time/training...also can make a difference...
Which difference is bigger? Is up for end user to figure out.
My glass stovetop is Schott glass and it's terrible. For that reason and that reason alone I would never buy Euro glass /s.
If you aren't using Schott glass, which is far and away superior to every other glass, then you're just settling for second best, or so I've read on this forum over the years lol
Edit: since I got a like on this post, please don't take my post seriously as an endorsement of Schott glass. A lot of my fellow old timers on the board will understand the sarcasm in my post and will remember a certain poster who would get into discussions like this swearing that IOR Valdada scopes were great and Schott glass was unrivaled
Edit: since I got a like on this post, please don't take my post seriously as an endorsement of Schott glass. A lot of my fellow old timers on the board will understand the sarcasm in my post and will remember a certain poster who would get into discussions like this swearing that IOR Valdada scopes were great and Schott glass was unrivaled
Last edited:
Noob alert: WhIch brands offer German glass?
Kahles?
Zeiss?
Scmidt&Bender?
Other?
Japanese:
NightForce?
Vortex Razor?
Burris XTR III?
Athlon Cronos?
Other?
Kahles?
Zeiss?
Scmidt&Bender?
Other?
Japanese:
NightForce?
Vortex Razor?
Burris XTR III?
Athlon Cronos?
Other?
I really like this type of differentiation information, and it’s definitely real. But regardless, I’m always blown away by the clarity looking through any of the >$2,500 options. Amazing.
You can make a very educated guess where glass comes from on an optic based on optical appearance. Different regions of the world favor one over the other, it's pretty well known. Jeff Huber made a similar comment on the exact same subject awhile back.
All of the big optical glass companies make series of glass with roughly the same measurements and specs. The scope makers mix and match the optical qualities they need for whatever scope they are designing. If they are making a higher priced scope, then they order a higher quality spec. I would think the optical design and tolerances/precision for the build are more important than German/Japan glass...
It was much more of an appropriate answer than you are apparently informed enough to understand.
Uhhh, just cause nobody else has pointed it out, I'm pretty sure they changed the spelling to 'Kronus'.
Again? Seriously? Again?
Walking off into horizon quietly muttering filthiest possible russian curses...
ILya
Walking off into horizon quietly muttering filthiest possible russian curses...
ILya
On a more serious note, I have a bunch of videos in a Youtube list I called "Explanations".
www.youtube.com
I should probably do a video on the various old-wives tales that persist in the gun and optics world.
Before I jump down this rabbit hole again, what exactly do you mean by "German glass" or "Japanese glass"? Do you mean the actual origin of raw glass? or origin of ground and polished lens elements? or origin of partially-integrated optomechanical subsystems? or the final assembly place of the actual product? or where the product is put into the box and documentation is printed?
Sometimes, these are all different.
Thanks
ILya
DLO Explanations
I will keep adding to this playlist as I put together videos on how riflescopes or other optical devices work. Let me know if something is not clear or if th...
www.youtube.com
I should probably do a video on the various old-wives tales that persist in the gun and optics world.
Before I jump down this rabbit hole again, what exactly do you mean by "German glass" or "Japanese glass"? Do you mean the actual origin of raw glass? or origin of ground and polished lens elements? or origin of partially-integrated optomechanical subsystems? or the final assembly place of the actual product? or where the product is put into the box and documentation is printed?
Sometimes, these are all different.
Thanks
ILya
Personally I would say they're both good.
Look at where some of the best cnc machines are from. Either majority German speaking places or Japanese speaking places.
Look at Kern, Studer, grob, hermle, and more for German speaking.
For Japanese look at mazak, Makino, okuma, and fanuc.
Theres two companies missing from above. Deckel maho gildemeister (DMG) and mori seiki. They're in a strategic partnership as DMG mori seiki. Awesome machines.
Look at where some of the best cnc machines are from. Either majority German speaking places or Japanese speaking places.
Look at Kern, Studer, grob, hermle, and more for German speaking.
For Japanese look at mazak, Makino, okuma, and fanuc.
Theres two companies missing from above. Deckel maho gildemeister (DMG) and mori seiki. They're in a strategic partnership as DMG mori seiki. Awesome machines.
22 year machinist. Currently run pama vertiram cutting fabricated steel engine blocks at one of the oldest engine producing companies in the world
One way to find out where glass comes from is to research shipping logistics online, to see where the scope vendors get their glass from. There are very few actual manufacturers. Schott is big in Europe, Low in Japan, and some japanese companies like Nikon are building plants in the Phillippines.
I think most US glass makers do fiber optics for networks instead of optical like Corning, or others just specialize in Window glass. I think Schott opened a US factory, but I dont consider that US. Based on shipping records, most scope glass ships from Europe or Asia, with China and Japan in the lead, and then Austria. I think Meopta is Czech republic.
All that being said, you MUST look through it to make a decision. Only YOUR eyes will tell you which is best. As an example, I have found an obscure chinese company that markets their scopes with Schott HD glass, with a 34mm 6-30x56 going for around $800 having MUCH clearer and brighter glass than many other vendors in the $2000-3000 range. To MY eyes. I have about 5 of those now, and they are my range toys. I have come to find that what it really comes down to is the freaking reticle. You have to love the reticle, or why bother. From that perspective, I would take a Primary Arms ACSS over an S&B any day. Dimitri is a genius with making easy to use reticles. The PA Platinum with LOW glass will be my next scope, even though my chinese scopes have better glass and are half the price.
How is Schott in any way equivalent to LOW? And when did Nikon start building plants in the Phillipines?
Also, when you talk about $800 scopes being better than $2000-$3000 scopes, you should really be specific, since that is a very bold claim. I vaguely recall you were posting about Vector scopes, so I assume that is the $800 one. Which $2000-$3000 ones are you are talking about?
ILya
I'm not expert but... I have high end optics from: S&B, NF, March, Kahles, Vortex (Golden Eagle), Leupold, Revic, and probably others I'm forgetting right now. The best - very best - advice you will get on optics is what Rimfire Joe said: "buy what your eye likes". As long as the parallax works well for you, as well as the eye relief and reticle, buy it (if it is in your price range). No optic is perfect, and no optic is perfect for everyone and every situation. And as far as I'm concerned, the very best Schott glass is one filled with great tequila, which will provide more clarity and depth to things than the best scope ever built....
you can get a bunch of the best quality "glass", stick it in a scope and get a mediocre optical end result. There's a ton of optical engineering know-how that matches and positions the lenses to squeeze the best performance from the collective glass, that can have a bigger impact than its' country of origin. Whom is putting the scope together is as important as the glass...
Last edited:
Im a fact checker from planet fact chek. Formerly worked at cnn. Its still 'Cronus'. lol
.... Sorry I had toWord from an unidentified source inside the company says they are changing it to 'Qronux'.Im a fact checker from planet fact chek. Formerly worked at cnn. Its still 'Cronus'. lol
Ilya, (DLO) I was talking about MY eyes, and how I perceive the quality of the glass by looking through a scope personally. I have looked through many different brands at the range, friends, stores (B&H photo in NYC and with Doug at CameralandNY), and I cannot tell the difference between this $800 scope and the much more expensive ones. This is supposedly German glass.
Attachments
.
If you can't tell an apple from an orange, its fine. Maybe you're just looking for a piece of fruit for lunch.
If cars are any indication to go by, you would be wrong.
Go look at how fast a $45000 German car depreciates compared to a premium Japanese car.......
Can you show us these websites where you can see the bills of lading, customs declarations, purchase orders, invoices, etc, etc, of companies that you don't work for?
TROLOLOLOLOLOL
Similar threads
