Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

[Lofty]

Im gonna be sending my new barrel off to get cryo treated after my smith is finished with the machine work getting it spun up for a Badger M2008 action. I was going to get the action done as well.

I spoke with 300 Below about getting them to do the work and he mentioned waiting until everything is done, including cera-coating before I send it off. What he couldnt be so clear on is whether or not I should spin the barrel off and send the barrel and action apart, or leave the barrel on and do it together.

I was concerned because they are two different types of steel, that they might cool and expand at different rates and put stress on the threads and the action face.

It probably would be easier just to spin the barrel off Im thinking.

Opinions?

 

[hoguer]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

yes. why are you cryo treating? there are numerous articles refuting any benefits of cryo on barrel life, etc

 

[Lofty]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Really?

Ive read many praising the process. I have seen the benefits in high performance motorcycle and car engine parts. The stresses going on inside a barrel are somewhat similar to that going on inside and engine, i.e heat, pressure, friction.

What are the downsides?

 

[FequalsMA]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

No downside. However while the theory is sound you will never know if the rifle would have shot worse or the same without treatment. I can say the customer service at 300 below is very good.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

i owned a savage F-class 6.5x284 a while back that i had cryo'd. The smith recommended it, if i can remember he was of the opinion that the process did nothing for accurcy, but was benefitial for barel life and cleaning. As you all know, on a 6.5x284, and extra 100-200 rounds of barrel life is a 10-20% increase, and carbon fouling is more of a factor. Isold the gun after about 150 rounds, but it was very accurate.
The smith also mentioned i could bring in my lawnmower blades and have them cryo'd, he said you could move over gravel and they'd still be sharp.

In conclusion, cryo may be worth if you're shooting a barrel burner, 308 not really, and actions like the badger should go for 80,000-100,000 rounds anyway, so i don't think cryo would be noticed.

 

[MaximumVelocity]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Cryo treatment of a barrel does help in ways some may not recognize. So you will hear some discard it.....and some praise it. It's just a heat treatment process that treats the steel at a molecular level.

Barrel longevity, ease of cleaning and accuracy are some of the things it benefits. I have two barrels that are cryo'd and it is easy to tell the difference IMO.

Separate the receiver from the barrel and only send the barrel. And yes, cryo work is the last thing performed. Even after special coating.

 

[DocB]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Lofty,

I've sent mine off after having everything done without any problems. The cooling rate is slow and didn't seem to bother anything.

HTH,
DocB

 

[Hntelk]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Mine was cyro treated and shoots like a laser...standard remmy barrel, 300wm...My smith recommended it and I went with it...The rifle was a new build so I have no idea how it would shoot w/o but some of my stock guns are only good to about 300 before they open up. If I could afford it I would get them cyro'd as well.

 

[JamieD]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I know Krieger has there own in house cryo and does every barrel. That is allot of time and money invested to help relieve stress in the barrel. They think it is that important.

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
AI Stocks and Accessories
Bat Tactical Actions

 

[doubledown]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Year is NO downside to Cryo ing Barrel. It increased the useful barrel life on my 6.5-284 and 220 Swift by a wide margin. Hell, I cryoed the rotors on my 8000 lbs Dodge pickup. The rotors were junk every 30k miles before cryo. With the Cryo rotors truck went 63k miles before change.

That is what sold me, years ago. Its not voodoo!

I would spin the barrel off for sure.

 

[Lofty]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Im gonna break the gun down and send in the action and bolt as well.

The only reason I want to do the action and bolt is because Ive heard that the bolt can be a tad stiff on an M2008 and cryo treating really helps smooth the surface out on a molecular level....maybe it will smooth it up a tad.

They arent charging anymore to do it, so I figured it cant hurt.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I have observed friends applying the Cryo process to rifles identical to some of my own.

I cannot honestly report seeing any differences in performance in any way.

I have no doubt that the lore concerning Cryo is 100 percent true, but with respect, I don't see the original rifles as being deficient in any way where cryo provides a discernable improvement.

If you want it, do it. I seriously doubt you'll be doing yourself any harm.

Greg

 

[Lofty]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I figure for $80.00 its no big deal....if I get some level of improvement and durability, great....if not I havent wasted too much.

Ive spent thousands on hi-fi audio gear when I was bit by that bug and sometimes its left me scratching my head wondering why.

 

[hamr56]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I had one done once and it seemed to clean up better than before. As far as accuracy goes, in my case I did not notice any significant difference. The people at 300 Below were very helpful and friendly.

 

[theriddler]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Im building a new rifle and thought about doing a cryo treatment. But i want to paint the rifle and barrel. Should i paint before or after the treatment? will the barrel accept the paint at all?

 

[cletuskasady]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I haven't found one sound explanation of how Cyro works and what it actually does, I hear this often "it work at the molecular level" from what i've read steel doesn't have molecules?
I asked this queston on a physics forum.

"....I still don't understand what makes up a steel molecule."

There's no such thing as a "steel molecule". I'm not sure what the exact definition of a molecule is, but this one should work in almost all cases: For a substance to be made of molecules (a localized group of 2 or more atoms) the vapor phase (or at least the liquid phase) of the substance has to be made of those molecules. This rules out steel because when its heated, the Fe, C and any other atoms that its made of come apart long before they all melt. In fact, it rules out all metals and alloys.


Joe




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MaximumVelocity</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cryo treatment of a barrel does help in ways some may not recognize. So you will hear some discard it.....and some praise it. It's just a heat treatment process that treats the steel at a molecular level.

Barrel longevity, ease of cleaning and accuracy are some of the things it benefits. I have two barrels that are cryo'd and it is easy to tell the difference IMO.

Separate the receiver from the barrel and only send the barrel. And yes, cryo work is the last thing performed. Even after special coating.</div></div>

 

[Lofty]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Ok professor.

Let's say atomic then.....everything has atoms.

Symantics at this level of discussion.

 

[mortarguy5611]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

I dont know nor care how it works. I just know it does. I had my 700SPS in .270 done and before i did i could get about 1 1/4" groups with Federal Premium 130 Nosler Ballistic tips and after i get 3/4" on a bad day. With Remington core lokt I was able to get sub 1" groups prior to cryo and after i can barely keep it under 2" so I guess that would be a negative but It works so well with the ammo i want to use now that I have nothing to complain about.

Also the barrel cleans MUCH easyer and does not copper up as bad.

 

[theriddler]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Anyone know if you can paint a cryo'd barrel?

 

[cletuskasady]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Ok Spanky, it works at the atomic level.
I'll buy that, makes a world of sense now. thanks


By Lofty:
Ok professor.

Let's say atomic then.....everything has atoms.

Symantics at this level of discussion.

 

[Lofty]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Well if it makes you feel better, when I called 300 below, the guy I spoke to never used the word molecular. He spoke only about how it changes the steels micro structure.

According to them it relieves stress in the barrel, allows the metal to relax and tightens up the surface micro structure.

 

[Skyking]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Semmens</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know if you can paint a cryo'd barrel?</div></div>
Yes you can cerakote after treatment or paint with a can.

 

[theriddler]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Thank you for that info. I thought so i just wanted to make sure

 

[VKC]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Cryogenic treated barrels are supposed to relieve the metal "stress" and improve consistency or prevent shift with the barrel heating up. It is supposed to make cleaning the barrel easier as well as extending barrel life.

I'm not sure if it really makes a difference or not.

 

[WillAdams]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

Since I'm not a structural engineer or metals type I can't tell you the difference between Martensite (sp) structured steel and whatever its called. What I do know is that I have had everything from a "Plain Jane" Douglas barrel to my current TUBB T2K barrels (3) all cryoed. Much easier to clean. As far as beter accuracy ?>??? heh, I'm getting older not better ... too many bad faults to overcome ! All done by 300 Below & if I have my contacts correct a gentleman named Dick Mayberry is my goto.
FWIW

 

[Chui]

Re: Getting a barrel cryo treated.....question.

WHEN ONE SPEAKS OF DEEP CRYOGENIC TEMPERING THIS IS WHAT DEMONSTRABLY OCCURS:

All austenite (RELATIVELY SOFT)is transformed into martensite (iron carbide - EXCEPTIONALLY HARD) with no increase in brittleness associated with quenching (which also transfoms austenite into Martensite).

Wear resistance is improved due to the precipitation of carbides.

The molecular lattice is changed from BCC (body-centered cubic) to BCT (body-centered tetragonal). This implies that the molecular structure is more densely packed (which also implies SMALLER / MORE REFINED GRAIN STRUCTURE).

Improvements in toughness, crack propagation resistance, formability and corrosion resistance are improved due to the modified grain structure. I suspect that the resistance to fouling may be due to this as well.

Soo.... Where did I get this from? Ed Bush. He developed the process. I worked with him a little bit but we discussed metallurgy a lot. His company was CryoTech in Hazel Park, MI. He died some years ago. 300 Below purchased CryoTech around that time.

Hope his clears up things a bit.

It's definitely technical but here is a great article (actually a chapter of a textbook):

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/32/04714362/0471436232.pdf

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Reviving a 9 year old thread. I remember 20 years ago this was the hot ticket for precision shooters. Do we know anything more now than we did then?

Hobo

 

[clonebuilder]

Reviving a 9 year old thread. I remember 20 years ago this was the hot ticket for precision shooters. Do we know anything more now than we did then?

Hobo

There's this certain company out in Beverly Hills that Cryos all their barrels on the green and black rifles they make. Its probably not a gimmick.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Reviving a 9 year old thread. I remember 20 years ago this was the hot ticket for precision shooters. Do we know anything more now than we did then?

Hobo

I know it's a massive difference for rotors warping. No matter what I tries they warped until I got cryo frozen rotors. Never an issue after. It definitely helps with that. Never done a barrel but I have thought about it a lot for 6cm