Getting close to college football season.

[EricCartmann]

The networks are going to do what's going to make them money. And if the NFL says we're going to look at a development league I guarantee you they will line up for the rights to it. And as I've said before as long as it's not during college/NFL season they're already ahead of the game.

The Networks already heavily invested Billions in College Football. There is no way they would invest in a NFL Development System that steal the top HS players from the NCAA.

Spring Football is a failure, also why do you want a development league in the spring? the purpose of a Development league is so a player can be optioned out, or called up correct? Is he suppose to play year round with no off season? It's obvious you did not really think this out like I have.

 

[EricCartmann]

First, Canadian is a different game. Second, it's in Canada and we're not. For Arena (again, an entirely different game) and that stupid "X" league (or whatever the name of it was) wasn't a part of the NFL. You make the development league the exact same game with NFL team direct affiliation and it grows. Take Green Bay for example. Green Bay is a small market with a huge football history. Tickets are handed down through wills and look up the waiting list. You stick a Green Bay Packer minor league team someone close or in Green Bay and it sells out almost instantly. Same thing in Dallas and other markets.

"X" league here meaning wildcard. There are many semi-pro football leagues in this country. They just do not get the press that Minor League Baseball does.

Canadian Football League may be a different game, but most of the players that play there are Americans playing American Football. The game is very similar to the NFL. A lot of established young players from the CFL and the Arena League do get shot at the NFL. Few of them make it. It's not because the game is different, it's because of lack of talent. The best "undeveloped" player comes from the college ranks.

You may knock the Arena League, but NFL players do come from there, and the list is longer than one might think. Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.

Again, the NFL does not need a Minor League NFL System. They already have them! and they do not have to front the cost.

 

[EricCartmann]

I said this EXACT SAME THING. So what is the point of this statement?
[/B]

Point was the players, who are the real REVENUE GENERATORS, have to be slaves and have to follow special rules, while the coaches and administrator do not have to abide by these rules. The coaches and admins get paid out thanks to the labor of the slaves.

 

[EricCartmann]

NCAAF is big, successful business. You say there is no need to change things but funny how there is a MAJOR change coming next year. My world is much more optimistic than your fantasy, cynical world. Come over to the fun side.

I can live in any world and do just fine. I myself would rather live with a horrible truth than a pleasant lie. It's tough! I don't blame you if you do not want to join my ranks. I still love College Football, and it's still my number 1 sport. Once the game starts, I could care less about the politics involved, the scandals, etc.

NCAAF will get bigger, and they will do just fine by doing such thing as marketing jersey, more TV exposure, etc. NCAAF will do just fine no matter what they do because they have no competition. A minor league system that takes players right out of HS will mean LOSING MARKET SHARE.

Again, I have no control in any of this. So do not get angry with me.

 

[EricCartmann]

1) Yes, few do take advantage but that is irrelevant to the opportunity being their. If they don't have guidance or someone to point them in the right direction that's a shame. But they ALL have the same choice whether they choose one way or another.
You're right, they don't care at all. But If you give them the opportunity and THEY REFUSE to take advantage of it, that's no one else's fault but their own.


2) Answer this: What advantage does the NCAA have by preventing players from working? Please explain in detail.



3)Actually the ticket manager will earn a salary whether he's in D1 or DIII.

4) I said this EXACT SAME THING. So what is the point of this statement?

5) Never say Never. There would still need to be age restrictions like there are currently for the NFL.

6) Because More is better, especially when it comes to money, right? So if the NCAA is a "minor league" system for the NFL, why not expand that system to a true minor league and make even MORE money?

1) Just pointing out the fact that most of them do not go to college to get a degree, they go to play ball. You may think you are helping them, but they don't want it.

2) For one players do not have time to work. Football itself is a full time game. How a person goes to college and play football and do both at a high level is not possible. Back in the old days, they got around all this by just paying for the players "housing" (a luxury apt), "transportation" (a very nice car), and they hook their parents up with nice jobs. Then the rules got stricter, so these players started to "work". You know, work at jobs for about $50 an hour, jobs they did not even show up to. So therefore, the NCAA limit how much a player could make at these jobs. My whole point is if someone wants to pay a player $50 for staring at the wall, then we should not interfrere.

3) The ticket manager might earn a salary, but $150k a year? I know LSU football is big money, and I totally understand if they want to keep their slaves in check. Most important thing is keep the checks rolling in.

4) Point is you are OK with the Slaves being Slaves, while the coaches being free men. You do not see them as the same. You seem to think the coaches have more BASIC rights than the players.

5) I am going to say "NEVER" for now. That may change, but it does not look like it will. The NFL needs the NCAA to develop the players. HS Football Players body and skill set are very raw, and they are not ready right away for the NFL, they are not even ready out of HS for the CFL. The NFL will not cut into the revenue of the NCAA, both feed off each other. This is why we will never see a Developmental League where they take players straight from HS. The NCAA and the NFL want the best players to play NCAAF.

6) More is not better. How many football can the average fan watch a week? There is really no more room for more football, especially football that cuts into the profits of the NCAA.

 

[EricCartmann]

What's the difference? Quite a bit. A baseball player that is a good student but decides to go play professionally is different than a CFP who doesn't give a shit about school.

Making a student athlete is not the same as graduating an athlete. Class attendance and participation can be measured without a degree.

The difference is baseball players realize the value of the education (complete or not) and are more apt to take advantage of it for whatever length of time there are in college. That, and you don't get as many ghetto (what do you call them, crack baby players). I would like to see statistics showing the avg. GPA between non-graduation baseball players vs. non-graduating football and basketball players.

Well for one, you are only ASSUMING that a baseball player studies hard while a football player slacks off. Baseball graduation rate is only 5%, so I don't see how you STILL think a college baseball player is there because he wanted to go to college. It seems to me, he is only there to play ball, much like a Football player.

Even if we play make believe and really believe that a college baseball player is a REAL Student and wants to be there.. I don't see a difference. Both are failures as both tend NOT to graduate. Both seem they are only there to play ball and nothing more (I don't blame them either).

 

[Mike]

So you played College Football and do not realize everything that goes on behind the scenes? Well I don't blame you for keeping your eyes closed.

You have ZERO experience and base your speculation on NOTHING.

 

[Mike]

The Networks already heavily invested Billions in College Football. There is no way they would invest in a NFL Development System that steal the top HS players from the NCAA.

Spring Football is a failure, also why do you want a development league in the spring? the purpose of a Development league is so a player can be optioned out, or called up correct? Is he suppose to play year round with no off season? It's obvious you did not really think this out like I have.

You haven't thought anything out. You read something on the internet and think you're an expert. You're not. Five years ago people thought a CFB playoff was out of the question. Doesn't look like it is does it?

 

[Mike]

"X" league here meaning wildcard. There are many semi-pro football leagues in this country. They just do not get the press that Minor League Baseball does.

"Semi Pro" football in this country is a joke. Everyone who I've ever met that played "semi pro" either didn't attend and play at a major university or never saw anything but a practice field. I laugh in the face of semi pro players.

Canadian Football League may be a different game, but most of the players that play there are Americans playing American Football. The game is very similar to the NFL. A lot of established young players from the CFL and the Arena League do get shot at the NFL. Few of them make it. It's not because the game is different, it's because of lack of talent. The best "undeveloped" player comes from the college ranks.

There aren't even close to the amount of Canadian universities that play football as there is in the US. Of course most are going to be from the states. ALL of those US players would fit right into a development league.

You may knock the Arena League, but NFL players do come from there, and the list is longer than one might think. Kurt Warner came from the Arena League.

I know, I played in Arena. I'm not knocking it, I'm saying it's an entirely different game than regular football.

Again, the NFL does not need a Minor League NFL System. They already have them! and they do not have to front the cost.

Your opinion of need is just that, your opinion. There were some that didn't think the NFL "needed" their own channel too.

 

[Mike]

Point was the players, who are the real REVENUE GENERATORS, have to be slaves and have to follow special rules, while the coaches and administrator do not have to abide by these rules. The coaches and admins get paid out thanks to the labor of the slaves.

Another ridiculous statement. One could argue it's the same with any corporation or military. Not every worker is a "slave".

 

[Mike]

I can live in any world and do just fine. I myself would rather live with a horrible truth than a pleasant lie. It's tough! I don't blame you if you do not want to join my ranks. I still love College Football, and it's still my number 1 sport. Once the game starts, I could care less about the politics involved, the scandals, etc.

You don't create or dictate what is truth. You live in your mind and accept only what you can speculate to be real.

NCAAF will get bigger, and they will do just fine by doing such thing as marketing jersey, more TV exposure, etc. NCAAF will do just fine no matter what they do because they have no competition. A minor league system that takes players right out of HS will mean LOSING MARKET SHARE.

Get bigger? Why? According to you their business plan is fine so why should they find avenues to grow? The NCAA would not lose market share if the development league was played at a different time. There are more than enough quality players to support ALL options.

Again, I have no control in any of this. So do not get angry with me.

I'm not angry with you, I just disagree with you 100%. You don't have any control over it so therefore you have nothing but your opinion based off of nothing.

 

[Mike]

1) Just pointing out the fact that most of them do not go to college to get a degree, they go to play ball. You may think you are helping them, but they don't want it.

How do you know what they want? Do you screen every college athlete who's being recruited? I didn't want underbody protection when I bought my new car but it was there.

2) For one players do not have time to work. Football itself is a full time game. How a person goes to college and play football and do both at a high level is not possible. Back in the old days, they got around all this by just paying for the players "housing" (a luxury apt), "transportation" (a very nice car), and they hook their parents up with nice jobs. Then the rules got stricter, so these players started to "work". You know, work at jobs for about $50 an hour, jobs they did not even show up to. So therefore, the NCAA limit how much a player could make at these jobs. My whole point is if someone wants to pay a player $50 for staring at the wall, then we should not interfrere.

Again, here's a perfect example of you know knowing WTF you're talking about. I went to a top BCS school and graduated with a degree. I found time to do both. But then again, you have ZERO experience so you're just going to talk out of your ass. Don't hate me, I'm only pointing out the truth of your misunderstanding.

3) The ticket manager might earn a salary, but $150k a year? I know LSU football is big money, and I totally understand if they want to keep their slaves in check. Most important thing is keep the checks rolling in.

Your jealous statement has ZERO to do with the subject at hand.

4) Point is you are OK with the Slaves being Slaves, while the coaches being free men. You do not see them as the same. You seem to think the coaches have more BASIC rights than the players.

The point is you don't have any clue about business or how a business is run. You also don't have a clue about college football other than what you can guess at and read on the internet.

5) I am going to say "NEVER" for now. That may change, but it does not look like it will. The NFL needs the NCAA to develop the players. HS Football Players body and skill set are very raw, and they are not ready right away for the NFL, they are not even ready out of HS for the CFL. The NFL will not cut into the revenue of the NCAA, both feed off each other. This is why we will never see a Developmental League where they take players straight from HS. The NCAA and the NFL want the best players to play NCAAF.

You can't say "Never for now", it's an oxymoron. You can say "Not at this time or in the near future, but never doesn't work. The NFL rule about not taking players before their sophomore year in college has to do with their physical development and has nothing to do with their skill set. Again, look at Maurice Clarett.

6) More is not better. How many football can the average fan watch a week? There is really no more room for more football, especially football that cuts into the profits of the NCAA.

Same thing that was said when the NFL only had 28 teams. But I guess the satellite companies were wrong when they offered sports specific packages. I guess the channels were wrong in running reruns. What was ESPN thinking when they offered ESPN Classic? Why would anyone want to watch a game that's already been played? Get real. More football = more money plain and simple.

 

[Mike]

Well for one, you are only ASSUMING that a baseball player studies hard while a football player slacks off. Baseball graduation rate is only 5%, so I don't see how you STILL think a college baseball player is there because he wanted to go to college. It seems to me, he is only there to play ball, much like a Football player.

Well there some liberties here but again, I'm basing my opinion off of experience, you are guessing and grasping at straws. A baseball player can be taken at any time. If you have a 4.0 student that gets an offer at the beginning of his senior year and goes, he may not have graduated but he was a fine student. Why don't you use your might powers of internet research to look for the breakdown of numbers of how many baseball players leave to go play professionally and how many just "drop out" because they don't want to go to school.

Even if we play make believe and really believe that a college baseball player is a REAL Student and wants to be there.. I don't see a difference. Both are failures as both tend NOT to graduate. Both seem they are only there to play ball and nothing more (I don't blame them either).

The only make believe is your insistence that you know what you're talking about. Again, just because you don't see a difference doesn't mean one doesn't exist. BTW, are you saying that everyone that doesn't graduate from college is a failure? WOW, incredibly arrogant even for you.

 

[EricCartmann]

You have ZERO experience and base your speculation on NOTHING.

What speculation? Just telling you how it is now. Don't get mad at me, I did not create any of this. I also do not have any say out things are run.

 

[EricCartmann]

1) You don't create or dictate what is truth. You live in your mind and accept only what you can speculate to be real.

2) Get bigger? Why? According to you their business plan is fine so why should they find avenues to grow? The NCAA would not lose market share if the development league was played at a different time. There are more than enough quality players to support ALL options.


3)I'm not angry with you, I just disagree with you 100%. You don't have any control over it so therefore you have nothing but your opinion based off of nothing.

1) What is the truth to you? Are you saying there is an NFL Minor League? Are you telling me College Football Players actually EARN their degrees like the regular students do? Are you telling me no college athlete is paid under the table? Are you telling me that the ESPN-SEC contract is not 15 years?

2) Any business plan goal is to gain market share. That is the bottom line. If you can't gain it, you try to hold onto what you have. Yes their current business plan is fine, it's growing at rates I am sure they are happy with. An NFL Development League where they take players right out of HS is not going to happen. It's not part of their business plan. You see to thing your plan is better than theirs? Both NFL and NCAA are making hundreds of millions more each year. I think they are just doing fine without listening to you.

3) Well it's kinda good you disagree with me. You are one of those people where I want you NOT to agree with me. If I find myself and you on the same page on too many topics, I would be very worried.

 

[Mike]

What speculation? Just telling you how it is now. Don't get mad at me, I did not create any of this. I also do not have any say out things are run.

NO, you are opining based on pure speculation stemming ONLY from talking to others. There you aren't telling anyone "how it is", you're just telling everything what you THINK. But you are right in the fact you do not have any say in how things are run.

 

[Mike]

1) What is the truth to you? Are you saying there is an NFL Minor League? Are you telling me College Football Players actually EARN their degrees like the regular students do? Are you telling me no college athlete is paid under the table? Are you telling me that the ESPN-SEC contract is not 15 years?

Sorry Cartman, you don't get to pick and choose what you're going to say and you also don't get to take anything out of context. You need to increase your reading comprehension as it's obvious you are not comprehending what you are reading.

2) Any business plan goal is to gain market share. That is the bottom line. If you can't gain it, you try to hold onto what you have. Yes their current business plan is fine, it's growing at rates I am sure they are happy with. An NFL Development League where they take players right out of HS is not going to happen. It's not part of their business plan. You see to thing your plan is better than theirs? Both NFL and NCAA are making hundreds of millions more each year. I think they are just doing fine without listening to you.

It's not going to happen because YOU say it's not going to happen? I didn't say it was going to happen, I was offering it up as a viable alternative. I guess after making their "hundreds of millions more each year" they're not open to making even more (according to you). Your knowledge must stem from those meeting you attend as both an NCAA and NFL board member. Oh, that's right, you're not, you're just running your mouth.

3) Well it's kinda good you disagree with me. You are one of those people where I want you NOT to agree with me. If I find myself and you on the same page on too many topics, I would be very worried.

 

[EricCartmann]

1) How do you know what they want? Do you screen every college athlete who's being recruited? I didn't want underbody protection when I bought my new car but it was there.

2) Again, here's a perfect example of you know knowing WTF you're talking about. I went to a top BCS school and graduated with a degree. I found time to do both. But then again, you have ZERO experience so you're just going to talk out of your ass. Don't hate me, I'm only pointing out the truth of your misunderstanding.

3) Your jealous statement has ZERO to do with the subject at hand.


4) The point is you don't have any clue about business or how a business is run. You also don't have a clue about college football other than what you can guess at and read on the internet.


5) You can't say "Never for now", it's an oxymoron. You can say "Not at this time or in the near future, but never doesn't work. The NFL rule about not taking players before their sophomore year in college has to do with their physical development and has nothing to do with their skill set. Again, look at Maurice Clarett.


6) Same thing that was said when the NFL only had 28 teams. But I guess the satellite companies were wrong when they offered sports specific packages. I guess the channels were wrong in running reruns. What was ESPN thinking when they offered ESPN Classic? Why would anyone want to watch a game that's already been played? Get real. More football = more money plain and simple.

1) I am talking in general. Despite having am much easier road to graduate, and majoring in lame majors, CFB players only graduate at about 75%. This despite everything being "free". Besides, we all know the school could care less about the kids scholastic accomplishments. The school wants football players! If they wanted the football players to excel academically at their institution, they would make sure the players entered with the same SAT scores as the general population.

2) The point was working while in college. Also, You probably majored in basket weaving, economics or something like that. Right? What sport did you play? swimming? I know it's very hard for a football player to find time to practice, study the playbook, go to classes, and study for the classes. Where is there time to work? I know it can be done, I am just saying it is not easy. Football season is a year round activity, whether the NCAA wants to admit it or not. Again, I will stick to my beliefs.. that is if a Player gets $50 for an hour for staring at the wall, or not even showing up to work.. he has that right!

3) How am I jealous? I am happy to anyone that can make a buck whenever they can. Even if they get paid $50 for staring at the wall. I think everyone should be given the opportunity to make as much as they can. Hell if a College Football Player wants an Agent, he should have one. We all are allowed to have Representation, why can't a College Football Player? Oh right, it's in the RULES! rules are rules, and the rules says the Slaves are not allowed to have agents.

4) I have some clue how to run a business. I had a successful business venture of my own before I sold it off. However, I am talking about the NFL and the NCAA. I think they are doing just fine. I really don't care how they run their business, it's their business NOT MINE. You though seem to think you could do better for them?

5) You are correct. I should never say NEVER, that means 100%. What I should say is There is a 95% chance that this will never happen... So if I may... "It does not appear the NFL will set up a Developmental League for players out of High School in the next 15 years due to the ESPN Contracts. Also the NFL never had a Developmental League in it's History, so therefore I am going to say it's not very likely, and about 95% chance there will never be a NFL Developmental League where players come straight from HS"

6) NFL schedule never changed. All games were always broadcasted. It was just we did not have a choice what to watch. Hate to break the news to you, but there are really only 4-5 games a week you can watch in full because they all play at the same time. 1) Sunday Morning, Sunday Afternoon, Sunday night, Monday Night, and Thursday Night. I am one of the few that watch all those, along with about 20 hours of college football a week. However, I am in the minority. Most people do not even watch those 5 games a week. You can watch all the games if you flip the channel, or if you have RedZone, there is not need to flip the channels.

Now I am a sports fanatic myself. But the only sports I regularly watch is MLB, NFL, and NCAAF. I will occasionally tune to Golf, NBA, NCAAB, AMA Motocross, AMA Superbike, WSB, and MotoGP. So speaking for myself, I will not be watching any more football. Trust me, if I am not watching, most likely no one will either because everyone tends to follow Cartmann

AS ALWAYS PLEASE DISCUSS.....

Here is Cartmann's setup to get the games:

 

[EricCartmann]

1) Well there some liberties here but again, I'm basing my opinion off of experience, you are guessing and grasping at straws. A baseball player can be taken at any time. If you have a 4.0 student that gets an offer at the beginning of his senior year and goes, he may not have graduated but he was a fine student. Why don't you use your might powers of internet research to look for the breakdown of numbers of how many baseball players leave to go play professionally and how many just "drop out" because they don't want to go to school.


The only make believe is your insistence that you know what you're talking about. Again, just because you don't see a difference doesn't mean one doesn't exist. BTW, are you saying that everyone that doesn't graduate from college is a failure? WOW, incredibly arrogant even for you.

1) You seem to be taking a lot of liberties. I don't blame you, in the Army we took Liberties whenever given the chance, and no one ever turns them down. I would think not all baseball players get drafted, and if they did, they would be so low that most likely they did not get any sign on bonus. Why not stick in school? It's because they do not want to be there. They want to play ball.

2) Graduating is NOT graduating. There is no difference to me. Why go to College if you are not going to graduate? Let me guess, you give them stars on your calendar for effort? Well at least they are getting stars from you (even though they are NOT getting a Diploma).

Please Discuss.....

 

[EricCartmann]

NO, you are opining based on pure speculation stemming ONLY from talking to others. There you aren't telling anyone "how it is", you're just telling everything what you THINK. But you are right in the fact you do not have any say in how things are run.

So you telling me that the NFL is going to start a Developmental League? Are you telling me Football players are smart? Are you telling me that Football Players go to College for academics first and college football 2nd? Please Discuss.....

 

[EricCartmann]

1)

1) Sorry Cartman, you don't get to pick and choose what you're going to say and you also don't get to take anything out of context. You need to increase your reading comprehension as it's obvious you are not comprehending what you are reading.


2) It's not going to happen because YOU say it's not going to happen? I didn't say it was going to happen, I was offering it up as a viable alternative. I guess after making their "hundreds of millions more each year" they're not open to making even more (according to you). Your knowledge must stem from those meeting you attend as both an NCAA and NFL board member. Oh, that's right, you're not, you're just running your mouth.

1) What did I say out of context? Can you help me with my reading comprehension since you are such a SMART GUY? and a nice guy too? Hey is that not the nickname I gave to you? SMART GUY?? HAHAHAH

2) Not going to happen based on the notes I have gathered. If your notes say it's going to happen, then all I am going to say I do NOT agree with your notes.

 

[Mike]

I am talking in general. Despite having am much easier road to graduate, and majoring in lame majors, CFB players only graduate at about 75%. This despite everything being "free". Besides, we all know the school could care less about the kids scholastic accomplishments. The school wants football players! If they wanted the football players to excel academically at their institution, they would make sure the players entered with the same SAT scores as the general population.

You're backpedaling, and you're wrong. I will be more than happy to quote you the article but let me give you a tidbit. "Largely, the association said, schools in Division I do a good job of graduating their athletes. Nearly four of every five — 79% — who arrived on campus in that four-year period, obtained degrees, its study found. That matches the high hit a year ago." Now this is older information but one study shows that less than 60% of the "normal" student population actually graduate, so CFP actually graduate more than average students. Many schools, especially those outside of the SEC, have much higher academic standards for their incoming freshman athletes.

Diplomas and Dropouts - Education - AEI

2) The point was working while in college. Also, You probably majored in basket weaving, economics or something like that. Right? What sport did you play? swimming? I know it's very hard for a football player to find time to practice, study the playbook, go to classes, and study for the classes. Where is there time to work? I know it can be done, I am just saying it is not easy. Football season is a year round activity, whether the NCAA wants to admit it or not. Again, I will stick to my beliefs.. that is if a Player gets $50 for an hour for staring at the wall, or not even showing up to work.. he has that right!

You're an idiot. I played Football for a university (arguably one of the most prestigious ACADEMIC institutions in the country) that is in a MAJOR BCS conference, graduated with a 3.8 GPA in Pre-Med. All the retards and slow learners went into engineering. So, AGAIN, I speak from experience, you speak for your ass.

3) How am I jealous? I am happy to anyone that can make a buck whenever they can. Even if they get paid $50 for staring at the wall. I think everyone should be given the opportunity to make as much as they can. Hell if a College Football Player wants an Agent, he should have one. We all are allowed to have Representation, why can't a College Football Player? Oh right, it's in the RULES! rules are rules, and the rules says the Slaves are not allowed to have agents.

You must be jealous because you keep bringing up an LSU ticket agent that makes $150K. And why should we follow the rules? Why should you only have to drive 25mph in a school zone? Why shouldn't you yell "fire" in a crowded theater? It's just "the man" holding you back from your "rights". I continue to laugh.

4) I have some clue how to run a business. I had a successful business venture of my own before I sold it off. However, I am talking about the NFL and the NCAA. I think they are doing just fine. I really don't care how they run their business, it's their business NOT MINE. You though seem to think you could do better for them?

You have "some clue", I have MUCH more experience and success. The NCAA and NFL are doing fine. Do they want to stay status quo or do they want to grow? Because you incessantly think they want to stay status quo, I am offering an option for them to grow.

5) You are correct. I should never say NEVER, that means 100%. What I should say is There is a 95% chance that this will never happen... So if I may... "It does not appear the NFL will set up a Developmental League for players out of High School in the next 15 years due to the ESPN Contracts. Also the NFL never had a Developmental League in it's History, so therefore I am going to say it's not very likely, and about 95% chance there will never be a NFL Developmental League where players come straight from HS"

That sounds better. I bet 10 years ago people said "There will NEVER be a playoff system in college football. The NCAA would never allow it".

6) NFL schedule never changed. All games were always broadcasted. It was just we did not have a choice what to watch. Hate to break the news to you, but there are really only 4-5 games a week you can watch in full because they all play at the same time. 1) Sunday Morning, Sunday Afternoon, Sunday night, Monday Night, and Thursday Night. I am one of the few that watch all those, along with about 20 hours of college football a week. However, I am in the minority. Most people do not even watch those 5 games a week. You can watch all the games if you flip the channel, or if you have RedZone, there is not need to flip the channels.

EXACTLY MY POINT. Those games are being broadcasted, it's how bad do you want to watch them. Redzone is also the EXACT example I pointed out earlier as a growth/revenue opportunity for both the NFL and NCAA.

Now I am a sports fanatic myself. But the only sports I regularly watch is MLB, NFL, and NCAAF. I will occasionally tune to Golf, NBA, NCAAB, AMA Motocross, AMA Superbike, WSB, and MotoGP. So speaking for myself, I will not be watching any more football. Trust me, if I am not watching, most likely no one will either because everyone tends to follow Cartmann

AS ALWAYS PLEASE DISCUSS.....

Here is Cartmann's setup to get the games:

That looks like my home office, you should see my media room.

 

[Mike]

1) You seem to be taking a lot of liberties. I don't blame you, in the Army we took Liberties whenever given the chance, and no one ever turns them down. I would think not all baseball players get drafted, and if they did, they would be so low that most likely they did not get any sign on bonus. Why not stick in school? It's because they do not want to be there. They want to play ball.

When you are discussing theories, hypothesis, philosophies or just general banner, there are always liberties. These are also known as "opinions".

2) Graduating is NOT graduating. There is no difference to me. Why go to College if you are not going to graduate? Let me guess, you give them stars on your calendar for effort? Well at least they are getting stars from you (even though they are NOT getting a Diploma).

Why go to college if you're not going to graduate? You answered your own question earlier. You go to college while trying to "raise your stock" (remember saying that?). At the end of your junior year you get picked up by a pro team. IF you decide to go back, you've already got three (or four) years under your belt. You're not starting from scratch. Shaq is a good example. Didn't he go back and FINISH his degree later in life?

 

[Mike]

So you telling me that the NFL is going to start a Developmental League? Are you telling me Football players are smart? Are you telling me that Football Players go to College for academics first and college football 2nd? Please Discuss.....

NO, I'm not telling you the NFL is going to start a development league, that's you trying to spin your deception. I am putting the idea of a development league forward as a viable business opportunity. YOU are not in a position other than to opine on whether or not you think it will happen.

As with any profession, many NFL players are very smart (why do you think they give the Wonderlic test) Why do you think idiots like Vince Young, who do HORRIBLE on the Wonderlic test also aren't having a successful NFL after a supposed successful collegiate career? Yes, many football players, not most, not all, but many go to college for academics first knowing their chances in the NFL are not guaranteed or they can have an career ending injury/accident. That's why the SMART football players go on to have successful careers and the ones that don't go to school end up selling cars or some other low-end, dead end job.

 

[Mike]

1) What did I say out of context? Can you help me with my reading comprehension since you are such a SMART GUY? and a nice guy too? Hey is that not the nickname I gave to you? SMART GUY?? HAHAHAH

For one, you're saying I am 100% confident the NFL will start a development league. I only put it forward as an IDEA, not a DEFINITE. And if you want to start with the "Smart guy" BS again we can continue this conversation next winter after football season when you get back.

2) Not going to happen based on the notes I have gathered. If your notes say it's going to happen, then all I am going to say I do NOT agree with your notes.

It may not happen. I never said it would. I said it was an idea that could work.

 

[Mike]

To prove my point Cartman, here is the FIRST THING I said regarding an NFL minor league. I never said it was GOING to happen. There is an example of you taking what I said out of context

Now, believe it or not, here is a point where we may (at least partially) agree. I would WELCOME what college football would be with pay and kids paying for their college on their own. If you think the NFL is full of primadonnas imagine even less mature kids being paid big money. And again, if you're a sports agent are you going to front big money on potential? I bet Maurice Clarett's agent would be a little pissed don't you?

If you want to do that, just eliminate college football entirely and start NFL minor leagues.

 

[EricCartmann]

awesome lots of stuff this morning! I will try to get back you as soon as possible buddy.

 

[EricCartmann]

1) You're backpedaling, and you're wrong. I will be more than happy to quote you the article but let me give you a tidbit. "Largely, the association said, schools in Division I do a good job of graduating their athletes. Nearly four of every five — 79% — who arrived on campus in that four-year period, obtained degrees, its study found. That matches the high hit a year ago." Now this is older information but one study shows that less than 60% of the "normal" student population actually graduate, so CFP actually graduate more than average students. Many schools, especially those outside of the SEC, have much higher academic standards for their incoming freshman athletes.

Diplomas and Dropouts - Education - AEI


2) You're an idiot. I played Football for a university (arguably one of the most prestigious ACADEMIC institutions in the country) that is in a MAJOR BCS conference, graduated with a 3.8 GPA in Pre-Med. All the retards and slow learners went into engineering. So, AGAIN, I speak from experience, you speak for your ass.



3) You must be jealous because you keep bringing up an LSU ticket agent that makes $150K. And why should we follow the rules? Why should you only have to drive 25mph in a school zone? Why shouldn't you yell "fire" in a crowded theater? It's just "the man" holding you back from your "rights". I continue to laugh.


4) You have "some clue", I have MUCH more experience and success. The NCAA and NFL are doing fine. Do they want to stay status quo or do they want to grow? Because you incessantly think they want to stay status quo, I am offering an option for them to grow.

5) That sounds better. I bet 10 years ago people said "There will NEVER be a playoff system in college football. The NCAA would never allow it".


6) EXACTLY MY POINT. Those games are being broadcasted, it's how bad do you want to watch them. Redzone is also the EXACT example I pointed out earlier as a growth/revenue opportunity for both the NFL and NCAA.


7) That looks like my home office, you should see my media room.

1) I never said they did not graduate. As noted before, I said there is a certain School known as one of the best Academic institution in this country. This school goes out of it's way to graduate players. There are guys who entered said School with Dyslexia and about a 4th grade education level, he still managed to get his Bachelors! He was able to get the test answers given to him, and memorize it enough to take the test. My whole point was HS football players go to college to play football, not go to college. Getting a degree is just a by-product. One thing that is rarely exposed is the Academic Cheating that goes on with CFB players. I am surprise the "graduation" rate is not 100%. It seems they just hand out degrees. Let's face it, the students do not really get smarter, what is happening is the schools are changing the testing to pad their numbers.

2) Pre-Med is not a Doctor. Pre-med means you are good at reading and memorizing stuff. Engineering like EE is pure LOGIC. Most people can't hang with EE because they lack logic. I will give you credit for being a good student as well as being a D1A football player. That is something I always wanted to do. I give you big props for making it to that level of play with an athletic scholarship.

3) I am happy for the ticket manager for making that much. I would like to see the slaves get a share of the pie that they help make. Rules are rules and we should follow them. If the rules says the slaves must bale the hay or be shot, than they should bale the hay... or be shot.

4) The NCAA and NFL are always trying to get a bigger market share using all avenues possible. An NFL Player Development Minor League System is not in the works. Don't be mad at me, it's them that are not doing it. I think it would be cool if there was a minor league system a player right out of HS could go to.. but not going to happen.

5) As long as the University President comes out, and the Networks force their will on the NCAA, will we see a better playoff system in place. If you really look at it, we still have a playoff not that much different than the 2-team playoff the BCS had. The Bowl System is still in place, here instead of a 2 team playoff, we have a 4 team playoff. I would like to see a Real playoff among Conference Champions, with home and away games much like D1-AA. This might be coming since a lot of University Presidents are coming out that they want to see a real playoff.

6) They should have been broadcasted and available long ago, but do to technology and " legal rights" they could not. Thanks to Broadband Cable and the Internet, we can see them even easier now. The NCAA did not invent the internet, but like every one else, including the 3rd graders, they took advantage of it! I pretty much know what the NCAA and NFL will be doing to grow their marketshare. An NFL Development League WILL NOT BE ONE of them.

7) who watches TV in an office? I only do that if I do not have a choice.

 

[EricCartmann]

Why go to college if you're not going to graduate? You answered your own question earlier. You go to college while trying to "raise your stock" (remember saying that?). At the end of your junior year you get picked up by a pro team. IF you decide to go back, you've already got three (or four) years under your belt. You're not starting from scratch. Shaq is a good example. Didn't he go back and FINISH his degree later in life?

Glad you are seeing my point now. FINALLY! This is why I do not believe "answering a question with a question" is not really a logical fallacy. It's a LOGICAL SET UP! Just saying, these guys don't really go to college to "go to college", they go to play ball. A college degree is just a by-product of playing ball (thought it's a dam good by product). Very few guys make it to the Pros, so I don't see why their graduation rate would not be 100%. The Universities goes out of it's way to help players with their studies. They get first dibs a registrations, provides them with quality tutoring, and even provides the test answers for them... then again, the flip side is most of these guys do not really belong in College. Most of them do not have a 6th grade education.

 

[EricCartmann]

ooops double tapped

 

[Mike]

1) I never said they did not graduate.

No, your exact words were "CFB players only graduate at about 75%." The "only" emphasized by me. The "only" implies that 75% is a low number. So the way that your statement read was that since CFB only graduated at 75% (as opposed to other students who graduate at high rate) they did not graduate very well.

As noted before, I said there is a certain School known as one of the best Academic institution in this country. This school goes out of it's way to graduate players. There are guys who entered said School with Dyslexia and about a 4th grade education level, he still managed to get his Bachelors! He was able to get the test answers given to him, and memorize it enough to take the test.

Please name the university. I'm not asking for your friends name, but I'm curious the name of this university. There can only be so many "best academic institutions" in the country. And to your point, I never claimed that incidents like your example never happened.

My whole point was HS football players go to college to play football, not go to college. Getting a degree is just a by-product. One thing that is rarely exposed is the Academic Cheating that goes on with CFB players. I am surprise the "graduation" rate is not 100%. It seems they just hand out degrees. Let's face it, the students do not really get smarter, what is happening is the schools are changing the testing to pad their numbers.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but my point is this is WAY of track of my initial point which was regardless if CFP want to go to school or not, they get an opportunity. You can argue they don't want it or wont take advantage of it but, again, that doesn't take away from the FACT that it is there for them. You can go to a Super Bowl party and their can be finger foods and beer there. You didn't come for the finger foods or beer but it's there for you in case you want it.

2) Pre-Med is not a Doctor. Pre-med means you are good at reading and memorizing stuff. Engineering like EE is pure LOGIC. Most people can't hang with EE because they lack logic. I will give you credit for being a good student as well as being a D1A football player. That is something I always wanted to do. I give you big props for making it to that level of play with an athletic scholarship.

Pre-Med is not a doctor. Pre-Med is technically a Bachelor's degree in Biology with emphasis in life sciences over and above a standard biology degree. So that degree, and an acceptable MCAT score, allows me to apply and enter a medical school. I worked my ass of and rarely did anything but workout and study. Although I felt I could make it in the NFL I knew I would be better prepared in case it didn't work out.

And note I've not attacked your EE degree and I, too, will give you the respect that you deserve for your academic accomplishments. ALL engineering (you may have an internal hierarchy) to me garners respect as it's not easy. The point is WE BOTH can approach this from different angles and with different opinions but to blindly brush off ideas as "never going to happen" is beyond both of our scopes. If we could predict the future I know I would be on my private island somewhere.

3) I am happy for the ticket manager for making that much. I would like to see the slaves get a share of the pie that they help make. Rules are rules and we should follow them. If the rules says the slaves must bale the hay or be shot, than they should bale the hay... or be shot.

4) The NCAA and NFL are always trying to get a bigger market share using all avenues possible. An NFL Player Development Minor League System is not in the works. Don't be mad at me, it's them that are not doing it. I think it would be cool if there was a minor league system a player right out of HS could go to.. but not going to happen.

5) As long as the University President comes out, and the Networks force their will on the NCAA, will we see a better playoff system in place. If you really look at it, we still have a playoff not that much different than the 2-team playoff the BCS had. The Bowl System is still in place, here instead of a 2 team playoff, we have a 4 team playoff. I would like to see a Real playoff among Conference Champions, with home and away games much like D1-AA. This might be coming since a lot of University Presidents are coming out that they want to see a real playoff.

6) They should have been broadcasted and available long ago, but do to technology and " legal rights" they could not. Thanks to Broadband Cable and the Internet, we can see them even easier now. The NCAA did not invent the internet, but like every one else, including the 3rd graders, they took advantage of it! I pretty much know what the NCAA and NFL will be doing to grow their marketshare. An NFL Development League WILL NOT BE ONE of them.

7) who watches TV in an office? I only do that if I do not have a choice. When your work day goes beyond 8-5, or you have kids that want to watch their shows, you do what you have to do.

The way I look at it is there seems to be three different conversations that we are having and they seem to be unintentionally intertwined. They are:

1) How CFB treats its players now
2) How they should be treated
3) How things could be different with regards to the above two.

Now as far as the development league goes I will reiterate that I never said it was going to happen, I said it was an idea. Now you can claim that there's a 99% chance it will never happen, and I may agree with you, but it is STILL a good idea that has potential. As I said if either of us could protect the future we would not be here talking.

 

[Mike]

Glad you are seeing my point now. FINALLY! This is why I do not believe "answering a question with a question" is not really a logical fallacy. It's a LOGICAL SET UP! Just saying, these guys don't really go to college to "go to college", they go to play ball. A college degree is just a by-product of playing ball (thought it's a dam good by product). Very few guys make it to the Pros, so I don't see why their graduation rate would not be 100%. The Universities goes out of it's way to help players with their studies. They get first dibs a registrations, provides them with quality tutoring, and even provides the test answers for them... then again, the flip side is most of these guys do not really belong in College. Most of them do not have a 6th grade education.

That's ALL I've tried to say. If you can, take advantage of what you're given.

 

[EricCartmann]

To prove my point Cartman, here is the FIRST THING I said regarding an NFL minor league. I never said it was GOING to happen. There is an example of you taking what I said out of context

Now, believe it or not, here is a point where we may (at least partially) agree. I would WELCOME what college football would be with pay and kids paying for their college on their own. If you think the NFL is full of primadonnas imagine even less mature kids being paid big money. And again, if you're a sports agent are you going to front big money on potential? I bet Maurice Clarett's agent would be a little pissed don't you?

If you want to do that, just eliminate college football entirely and start NFL minor leagues.

First off lets get REAL. Money is a great Motivator. I know you like to live in this ideal imaginary world where NCAA Football Players are STUDENTS first, and athletes second. I am just pointing out it's make believe. There is no way anyone is going to willingly give up their cash cow. There is no reason for the powers to be to start a NFL Player Development System where the players come straight from HS. The NCAA does not want this, the Networks do not want this, and even NFL do not want this. Therefore, a HS Football player does not have any choices, his only choice is to play College Football and that's it.

Not all investment pans out. It's not about the Agent getting pissed, it's about the players getting basic rights. NCAA Football is big money, and they guys who are making this money for the NCAA, are not only NOT getting a share of the pie, they also have their basic rights stripped from them. I know what you are thinking, they are getting a $100,000+ education for free. I don't see it they getting it for free, the way I see it, they EARNED IT! and they deserve so much more. If an Agent wants to represent them, and front the cost of their education, that is no one's business but their own. If a Booster wants to pay them $50 an hour for staring at the wall.. again no one's business but their own. If Nike wants to pay a HS Baller $200k for a shoe deal.. again one's business but their own.

I understand your side too. I too love this world when I have my eyes closed. It's tough waking up one day with eyes open and realizing that these kids are NOT really amateurs (they never were). Players always had agents and got paid under the table, however, if we let them PUBLICLY do their business in the open, this will clearly cross the line of what Amateur status what really is. College Football Players are not really the noble STUDENT-ATHLETES everyone portrays them to be, they are just like you and me. We all want basic rights and want to get as much of the share of the PIE that we created.

 

[Mike]

Answer a question Cartman,

How do you prevent the situation from developing which prompted the NCAA to instill rules in the first place?

In other words, if it all comes down to who's going to stroke a bigger check, how do smaller schools EVER have a chance to get good players?

 

[EricCartmann]

1) No, your exact words were "CFB players only graduate at about 75%." The "only" emphasized by me. The "only" implies that 75% is a low number. So the way that your statement read was that since CFB only graduated at 75% (as opposed to other students who graduate at high rate) they did not graduate very well.

2) Please name the university. I'm not asking for your friends name, but I'm curious the name of this university. There can only be so many "best academic institutions" in the country. And to your point, I never claimed that incidents like your example never happened.

3) I don't disagree with what you're saying but my point is this is WAY of track of my initial point which was regardless if CFP want to go to school or not, they get an opportunity. You can argue they don't want it or wont take advantage of it but, again, that doesn't take away from the FACT that it is there for them. You can go to a Super Bowl party and their can be finger foods and beer there. You didn't come for the finger foods or beer but it's there for you in case you want it.



4) Pre-Med is not a doctor. Pre-Med is technically a Bachelor's degree in Biology with emphasis in life sciences over and above a standard biology degree. So that degree, and an acceptable MCAT score, allows me to apply and enter a medical school. I worked my ass of and rarely did anything but workout and study. Although I felt I could make it in the NFL I knew I would be better prepared in case it didn't work out.

5) And note I've not attacked your EE degree and I, too, will give you the respect that you deserve for your academic accomplishments. ALL engineering (you may have an internal hierarchy) to me garners respect as it's not easy. The point is WE BOTH can approach this from different angles and with different opinions but to blindly brush off ideas as "never going to happen" is beyond both of our scopes. If we could predict the future I know I would be on my private island somewhere.

6) The way I look at it is there seems to be three different conversations that we are having and they seem to be unintentionally intertwined. They are:

1) How CFB treats its players now
2) How they should be treated
3) How things could be different with regards to the above two.

Now as far as the development league goes I will reiterate that I never said it was going to happen, I said it was an idea. Now you can claim that there's a 99% chance it will never happen, and I may agree with you, but it is STILL a good idea that has potential. As I said if either of us could protect the future we would not be here talking.

1) NCAA Universities are always going to get their numbers up. I think right now the "graduation rate" is at acceptable levels. I still think 75% - 80% is fairly low still. Considering the NCAA goes out of it's way to help the players get a degree. Heck, these guys don't really go through the rigors that the other students do, and they get their schooling paid for. It should be 100%. But I digress... My stance is solid on this, football players do not go to college to get degrees, they go to college to play football. That is the only choice they have.

2) Check your PM. I will fill in some more details for you. I trust you will not post it publicly.

3) No doubt, it is there for them. However, unlike you, I do not think the "GET IT FOR FREE". I think they earned that right to have their education pay for. You might see this as I think they are ENTITLED to this. But I do not see it that way. The way I see it, they are making the school millions, so why should the school not house them, feed them, and educate them? In addition to all this, I think they have a right to more stuff. Such as "working" at high paying jobs (for doing nothing), and getting representations.

4) It seems about 50% of my friends who I went to college with were pre-med. Biology is a fairly easy degree, as 3.5 GPA seems to be the norm. Most of these guys go into pharmacy, which I think is a nice living. As the world always has a need for drug dealers. Of all the guys I knew who were pre-med, only one became a real MD (not DDS).

5) It's ok if you attack EE. I don't mind at all. All I know is I am part of a brotherhood where few people can do. EE is 100% Logic, and most people lack logic, that's why they can't do EE.. or they try it and drop out. I myself expect to be called an IDIOT and get personally attacked on Forums when I get into discussions. You are proving to me you are just like every other Forum Member I have encountered when we get into a discussion where we have conflicting viewpoints, you end up personally attacking me too. Hah! I am cool with it though, there are some people who I want to disagree with me. If everyone agreed with me, that just means they are all smart enough and logical enough to be EE like me ;-) LOL

6) Just like you, I do wish there was a Pro Developmental League where they take guys right out of HS, just like Minor League Baseball. Overall, I think it would be great, and give HS Football Players the options he currently lacks. However, I am a REALIST more than I am a DREAMER. It's not about what I want, it's about what IS. Right now, I don't see any NFL Developmental League happening, and I can't see it ever happening.

 

[Mike]

1) NCAA Universities are always going to get their numbers up. I think right now the "graduation rate" is at acceptable levels. I still think 75% - 80% is fairly low still. Considering the NCAA goes out of it's way to help the players get a degree. Heck, these guys don't really go through the rigors that the other students do, and they get their schooling paid for. It should be 100%. But I digress... My stance is solid on this, football players do not go to college to get degrees, they go to college to play football. That is the only choice they have.

I don't disagree.

2) Check your PM. I will fill in some more details for you. I trust you will not post it publicly.

You have my word

3) No doubt, it is there for them. However, unlike you, I do not think the "GET IT FOR FREE". I think they earned that right to have their education pay for. You might see this as I think they are ENTITLED to this. But I do not see it that way. The way I see it, they are making the school millions, so why should the school not house them, feed them, and educate them? In addition to all this, I think they have a right to more stuff. Such as "working" at high paying jobs (for doing nothing), and getting representations.

I'm not in total disagreement with you. I think some of this is semantics and I don't mean that with a negative connotation. My only issue is IF they're allowed to "work" there has to be complete parody for all schools and all players.

4) It seems about 50% of my friends who I went to college with were pre-med. Biology is a fairly easy degree, as 3.5 GPA seems to be the norm. Most of these guys go into pharmacy, which I think is a nice living. As the world always has a need for drug dealers. Of all the guys I knew who were pre-med, only one became a real MD (not DDS).

No offense to your friends but (at least where I went to school) there is a significant difference between Bio and Pre Med and I believe this is due more the the extra chemistry and the advanced life sciences. Similarly to EE (perhaps) you either have it or you don't. Pharmacy is a great deal as I, too, have a few friends who are pharmacists and I'm always joking with them about actually working.

5) It's ok if you attack EE. I don't mind at all. All I know is I am part of a brotherhood where few people can do. EE is 100% Logic, and most people lack logic, that's why they can't do EE.. or they try it and drop out. I myself expect to be called an IDIOT and get personally attacked on Forums when I get into discussions. You are proving to me you are just like every other Forum Member I have encountered when we get into a discussion where we have conflicting viewpoints, you end up personally attacking me too. Hah! I am cool with it though, there are some people who I want to disagree with me. If everyone agreed with me, that just means they are all smart enough and logical enough to be EE like me ;-) LOL

I have not attacked EE. (have I?) and I've called you an idiot when you make idiotic statements. Your ability to debate or argue your point does not make you immune from saying stupid things or acting like an idiot. You are not exclusive to this club but please don't give me the holier than thou approach.

6) Just like you, I do wish there was a Pro Developmental League where they take guys right out of HS, just like Minor League Baseball. Overall, I think it would be great, and give HS Football Players the options he currently lacks. However, I am a REALIST more than I am a DREAMER. It's not about what I want, it's about what IS. Right now, I don't see any NFL Developmental League happening, and I can't see it ever happening.

The funniest thing about your last statement is you've seem to make an entire flip flop. Or rather, your omission of your complete feelings on the NFLDL matter could have prevented three pages of our discussion. You say you wish there was an NFLDL but that since your a pragmatist you "know" it will never happen. Yet I say the exact same thing (without saying it would never happen) and you call me a dreamer living in a fantasy world. Are you the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[EricCartmann]

1) I'm not in total disagreement with you. I think some of this is semantics and I don't mean that with a negative connotation. My only issue is IF they're allowed to "work" there has to be complete parody for all schools and all players.

2) No offense to your friends but (at least where I went to school) there is a significant difference between Bio and Pre Med and I believe this is due more the the extra chemistry and the advanced life sciences. Similarly to EE (perhaps) you either have it or you don't. Pharmacy is a great deal as I, too, have a few friends who are pharmacists and I'm always joking with them about actually working.



3) I have not attacked EE. (have I?) and I've called you an idiot when you make idiotic statements. Your ability to debate or argue your point does not make you immune from saying stupid things or acting like an idiot. You are not exclusive to this club but please don't give me the holier than thou approach.


4) The funniest thing about your last statement is you've seem to make an entire flip flop. Or rather, your omission of your complete feelings on the NFLDL matter could have prevented three pages of our discussion. You say you wish there was an NFLDL but that since your a pragmatist you "know" it will never happen. Yet I say the exact same thing (without saying it would never happen) and you call me a dreamer living in a fantasy world. Are you the pot calling the kettle black?

1) That is how life is, it's not fair. There will always be certain players that get more benefits than other players. I just like to think, that if a certain individual has star power, he should be able to use it for himself. If he does not have star power, then he has to stand in line to buy tickets like the rest of us. I think one of the biggest injustice in life is trying to make things equal even though they are not naturally equal.

2) Pharmacist do not actually work, but they make a nice living. No hate here! I am actually happy for them, and sometimes I wish I should have been a pharmacist, but then again.. I really like what I do now, and though it's not stable, and always challenges.. that is what makes life exciting.

3) No you did not attack EE, you attacked other Engineers. I agree with you here, EE is the toughest of the Engineering Majors. I agree with you about EE in that you have IT or you DON'T. EE is pure Logic, and most people do NOT have Logic. As for this "gun forum club", I am not part of it. I am an outcast from it. I want to keep it this way too. I think gun forum folks (in general) are hard headed idiots without any Logic, Logic that I have proven to have.

4) I have ALWAYS supported a NFL Player Development System where they take players right out of High School. You just never asked me my personal feelings about it. However, I do NOT have any control over any of this. All I said was IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN (which I later changed NEVER to MOST LIKELY WILL NOT). Thinking it will happen is only DREAMING, AND FANTASIZING. You, like most people, attacked the Messenger instead of attacking the message. From the beginning of this DISCUSSION, you told me how it will happen, but all I did was tell you how it will most likely NOT happen. It's not that I do not want it to happen, but it's not about what I WANT. It's about reality, and from the notes I have gathered, I can see it most likely will never happen.

 

[Mike]

1) That is how life is, it's not fair. There will always be certain players that get more benefits than other players. I just like to think, that if a certain individual has star power, he should be able to use it for himself. If he does not have star power, then he has to stand in line to buy tickets like the rest of us. I think one of the biggest injustice in life is trying to make things equal even though they are not naturally equal.

Sure, there are studs out there and then there are the workers bees. A TE or OL will never make or demand what a QB or RB would. But make it scale. Say a QB can receive "X" amount per month regardless of where he goes to school. A mediocre RB can make bottom scale and a top Heisman candidate can make top scale.

2) Pharmacist do not actually work, but they make a nice living. No hate here! I am actually happy for them, and sometimes I wish I should have been a pharmacist, but then again.. I really like what I do now, and though it's not stable, and always challenges.. that is what makes life exciting.

I'm not hating on Pharmacists, they're usually great people. I couldn't do it as I think I would be way too bored with the chemistry.

3) No you did not attack EE, you attacked other Engineers. I agree with you here, EE is the toughest of the Engineering Majors. I agree with you about EE in that you have IT or you DON'T. EE is pure Logic, and most people do NOT have Logic. As for this "gun forum club", I am not part of it. I am an outcast from it. I want to keep it this way too. I think gun forum folks (in general) are hard headed idiots without any Logic, Logic that I have proven to have.

If I attacked other engineers that was not my intent. I know that some friends I have who are mechanical and civil engineers believe their respective fields are "superior". I was not casting judgement.

4) I have ALWAYS supported a NFL Player Development System where they take players right out of High School. You just never asked me my personal feelings about it. However, I do NOT have any control over any of this. All I said was IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN (which I later changed NEVER to MOST LIKELY WILL NOT). Thinking it will happen is only DREAMING, AND FANTASIZING. You, like most people, attacked the Messenger instead of attacking the message. From the beginning of this DISCUSSION, you told me how it will happen, but all I did was tell you how it will most likely NOT happen. It's not that I do not want it to happen, but it's not about what I WANT. It's about reality, and from the notes I have gathered, I can see it most likely will never happen.

But you see I AM asking your personal feelings about it. That's the whole point of the discussion. If you had originally asked me what were the chances I believed an NFLDL would come up I would have said <1% but I was only espousing scenarios. But your insistence on calling it dreaming and fantasizing is over the top. I never said IT WILL happen, you never said it will most likely not happen. I put it forward as an idea and you shot it down as if you just came from a board meeting. You can claim it any chances to be non-existent but until either you or I am in those board rooms neither one of us knows what's going on with 100% certainty.

So my (personal) position to clear up any confusion is I would like to see an NFLDL. I, like you, think it will most likely never happen but I would like to see it.

If you're going to have any compensation for CFB players there should be parody and scale meaning that if a QB at Alabama can make between a-b then a QB at Wyoming should be able to make between a-b.

What else needs clarity?

 

[EricCartmann]

1) Sure, there are studs out there and then there are the workers bees. A TE or OL will never make or demand what a QB or RB would. But make it scale. Say a QB can receive "X" amount per month regardless of where he goes to school. A mediocre RB can make bottom scale and a top Heisman candidate can make top scale.



2) But you see I AM asking your personal feelings about it. That's the whole point of the discussion. If you had originally asked me what were the chances I believed an NFLDL would come up I would have said <1% but I was only espousing scenarios. But your insistence on calling it dreaming and fantasizing is over the top. I never said IT WILL happen, you never said it will most likely not happen. I put it forward as an idea and you shot it down as if you just came from a board meeting. You can claim it any chances to be non-existent but until either you or I am in those board rooms neither one of us knows what's going on with 100% certainty.

3) So my (personal) position to clear up any confusion is I would like to see an NFLDL. I, like you, think it will most likely never happen but I would like to see it.


4) If you're going to have any compensation for CFB players there should be parody and scale meaning that if a QB at Alabama can make between a-b then a QB at Wyoming should be able to make between a-b.

5) What else needs clarity?

1) For now, I am going to say the only thing these players should equally have access to is Lifetime medical Benefits provided by the University. I know they are not employees per say, but the did help the school make millions. I could be for paying the players by the universities, but I do not want to go there yet.... all I really want for the players is more freedom and liberties. Free market should dictate how much the boosters and agents pay the players.

2) Why do you care about my personal feelings? I don't even care about my personal feelings! LOL. I do not agree with you when said I was HARSH and over the top in calling it Fantasy, but then again.. REALITY IS HARSH! Hahaah. I have no SAY if a NFLDL will come into being or not. I am just an Outsider saying it WON'T HAPPEN, or very UNLIKELY to HAPPEN (based on the notes I have gathered).

3) Finally we are on the same page! My stance has not changed since post #1

4) I really do not want to get into how much a player should be paid. Only thing for now, is I think third parties (boosters, agents, and sponsors/advertisers) should be able to pay these guys whatever they want. If PETA wants to pay a player $100k for making a 30 second commericial, I think both PETA and the player have the right to make the deal happen.

5) Don't know, I am sure we can find more later.

 

[Mike]

1) For now, I am going to say the only thing these players should equally have access to is Lifetime medical Benefits provided by the University. I know they are not employees per say, but the did help the school make millions. I could be for paying the players by the universities, but I do not want to go there yet.... all I really want for the players is more freedom and liberties. Free market should dictate how much the boosters and agents pay the players.

Do you mean lifetime medical benefits if an injury occurred during practice/play? Similar to VA benefits but with actual quality care?

2) Why do you care about my personal feelings? I don't even care about my personal feelings! LOL. I do not agree with you when said I was HARSH and over the top in calling it Fantasy, but then again.. REALITY IS HARSH! Hahaah. I have no SAY if a NFLDL will come into being or not. I am just an Outsider saying it WON'T HAPPEN, or very UNLIKELY to HAPPEN (based on the notes I have gathered).

3) Finally we are on the same page! My stance has not changed since post #1

Pfft, we can figure something out.

4) I really do not want to get into how much a player should be paid. Only thing for now, is I think third parties (boosters, agents, and sponsors/advertisers) should be able to pay these guys whatever they want. If PETA wants to pay a player $100k for making a 30 second commericial, I think both PETA and the player have the right to make the deal happen.

I do wish you would give me your personal opinion on this matter. If you say players are open to whatever they can make, what prevents abuse?

5) Don't know, I am sure we can find more later.

 

[EricCartmann]

1) Do you mean lifetime medical benefits if an injury occurred during practice/play? Similar to VA benefits but with actual quality care?


2) I do wish you would give me your personal opinion on this matter. If you say players are open to whatever they can make, what prevents abuse?

1) Yes lifetime benefits for Injury related items Full Physical when coming in and going out. What I am afraid of here, is the school will say an injury was "not football related" 20 years down the road. As we know, sometimes injuries that we received in our 20's does not necessarily show up till we are 50.

2) What is abuse? A player blowing his wad of cash? I am pretty sure that already happens (in the NFL).

 

[Mark williams]

Really good points their guys, Eric and Mike!

 

[EricCartmann]

Really good points their guys, Eric and Mike!

I really appreciate that Mike kept at it, and we worked through the discussion. I know it's not easy to do when there is a difference of viewpoints. Most Mods just go into attack mode followed by a ban.

Now I am ready for kickoff!!!

 

[DT1]

Wow, this thread certainly has taken an unfortunate turn.....Lets go back to talking about how bad the Big 10 is or how Louisville might be a BCS spoiler with their pitiful schedule.

 

[45.308]

Lets get the separations. SEC as a whole or Bama? Its a fact that Bama is a top 5 program right now but they are not the SEC and this is what I am saying. The SEC top to bottom is not strong, the SEC in general, not bama NC games but the SEC does not have the record to support their claim of dominance, again not Alabama but the SEC. Many lessor teams from lessor conference would do just fine in the SEC as in over the whole schedule, losses to Alabama, LSU but that is not the whole conference. We will shall see how a poor big 12 team now in the SEC does this year, very good last year. And as a whole, the SEC plays over the years the most or close to the most sub conference games. I hate USC but they are willing to play any conference on the road year after year, the SEC cannot make that claim. The SEC says our conference is tuff enough so why do we need to go to LA and play USC or Stanford, OR, if they did instead of getting home games, then they can brag some but not until the SEC does. I get tired of ESPN and the fans of SEC making claim every game they play is a slug feast so they get tired and can lose....not if ESPN and the fans claim the SEC is the tuffest conference to play. But, once the SEC goes outside its own conference, the winning record says different but ESPN / fans have the excuse, the SEC is the tuffest so we can be tired and lose sometimes. My point is, if the SEC wants to claim its dominance as a whole conference, schedule more top tier games on the road and win more of them to include bowl games, of course someone and has said how many NC wins over the last 10 years but you do not get my point, conference not LSU and BAMA. If the SEC top to bottom was tuffest then no SEC team would be much over 500 at the end of the season.

As a fan of college football, I have no team, again I have no team other than the love of college football period, I for one can respect and except what small programs have done and doing with what they have; little money, recruiting, fan base, facilities, etc but for some reason, SEC cannot and will not because the SEC always beat the little guys as their record proves. Its odd how Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10, do but not the SEC (UGA vs BSU is the exception) support those programs that are competing with them with the coaches and players all saying, they had more size, strength, speed, technique, game plan and coaching that we gave them credit, fans do not because they were not on the field of play. Even an ESPN love the SEC analysis made that comment reporting on the field UGA vs BSU about BSU physical presence and skills and they won by the way a top SEC team. Oh wait a minute, UGA had the tuffest training camp in the SEC so where tired not that a better team both talent and coaching won. SEC always has that excuse and always an excuse instead of, we got beat by a better team, period!

On to the small guys beating the big guys just one game. Again I will say, if the big guy is so dominate then the practice scrubs should be on the field by half time with a blow out win pulling away, one game to 10, win them all against the little guys or you have nothing to say, Oh I forgot how tuff your training camp and schedule is that does not allow you to dominate because you are tired.

8 days!!!!!

I tire of this subject, had the tuffest day of being lazy yesterday so I have the excuse to not perform on this subject any more.

 

[Dagsta]

45.308, Although I disagree with some of your assessments, I respect everyone's opinion. That's part of the passion of college football. And it's what makes the world go round bro!!!

Should be a fun-filled season and I'm sure we will all have plenty to gig each other about!!!

 

[Mark williams]

I'm a bama football fan and sec as a whole. I also know that their not the only conference with good teams. Even the smaller schools possess good athletes these days because their are a lot of good players to go around. Bama is not the only sec team, we are at the top but usually theirs not much difference in the top 6 or 7 teams in sec. I don't think any other conference has that depth.if you will look we have not blown out most of the opponents in the league and had to find ways to win at times. We normally wait on the NC game to dominate !

 

[beenjammin]

WAR EAGLE !!! Fellow hiders. The Gus bus is rolling in the 31st. All I can say is that we will be twice as good as last year. To my man Mike and te other Bammers, looking forward to another season of trash talk with you guys. Ill be pulling for two teams again this year. Auburn and whoever plays Bamma.

 

[Mark williams]

WAR EAGLE !!! Fellow hiders. The Gus bus is rolling in the 31st. All I can say is that we will be twice as good as last year. To my man Mike and te other Bammers, looking forward to another season of trash talk with you guys. Ill be pulling for two teams again this year. Auburn and whoever plays Bamma.

Benny, I guess your just a glutton for punishment! Ha! I hope auburn comes back strong as that makes it that much more entertaining for our state. By the way, I like gussy as he seems like a nice man! Have to wait and see what kind of coach he is!

 

[Mike]

WAR EAGLE !!! Fellow hiders. The Gus bus is rolling in the 31st. All I can say is that we will be twice as good as last year. To my man Mike and te other Bammers, looking forward to another season of trash talk with you guys. Ill be pulling for two teams again this year. Auburn and whoever plays Bamma.

There's my man Ben! I hope you're doing well. Looking forward to the Gus Bus not breaking down on the side of the road.