Getting rid of a flinch.

[808H200321]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

lot of good info here...the bottom line is if you know that you're anticipating the shot (flinching), so the drills and equipment suggested will help, but it comes down to a mental issue to get past this problem....

 

[eihcir6002]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

tag

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

It's always been a psychological matter. The mind needs to be trained to accept what appears to be an unpleasant thing happening repeatedly well inside our own personal comfort zone.

Yes, it can be unpleasant, but it doesn't really need to be. No single strategy will work for all, or even for the individual.

Recoil management can be refined, the basic psychological issue can be modified by acclimation.

Simply facing the demon straight on has to be part of the whole. It's my experience that once we get a really good look at the demons, they're not really so insurmountable after all.

Telling someone to 'Just do it' is not very helpful at all; but once we 'git 'er done' and look back, that turns out to be pretty much what we're doing after all.

We don't learn to swim by getting pitched into the deep end. It helps to have intermediate steps.

When we're done, we're ready to get pitched into nearly anything; but that's not a good way to be starting out, is it?

Also; don't think you need to be a beginner to encounter this sort of problem. It can happen to any of us; I know I sometimes find myself slipping back into bad habits.

That's why the basics are an every time thing. Not 'have to be'; 'are'.

Greg

 

[Swift]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Greg has been spot on with his points in this thread. It's a mental game. You're anticipating the recoil and even on a subconscious level your body moves into the rifle to mitigate it.

I struggled with a flinch for a long time when I started shooting bolt guns and didn't have much for instruction. I tried a lot of different things and none of them worked because I wasn't treating the source of the problem. I was stuck in a mental block and started overcomplicating the problem, looking at everything from the trigger, to the rifle, to my position, to my bipod and everything in between.

I finally made a very conscious effort to be that "piece of meat" behind the rifle and it all started coming together. If you let the weapon system do the work, as it was intended, you will see results.

Think about it this way: put a stock, off the shelf, 700 hunting rifle in the hands of a competent shooter in an awkward, unsupported sitting position and he will still be accurate because he can properly apply the fundamentals.

Don't make mountains out of molehills, go back to the basics and take your time. When you get that first clean shot off and you see the impact downrange, the monkey will be off your back and the mental block with it, much like a cleanup hitter breaking out of a slump.

Don't get discouraged, take your time, go through your pre-shot checklist and call your shots.

 

[Eye Tat]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Just wondering if pistol shooting would be the same principle. Any thoughts on it , would help someone out that is just grtting back into shooting after 20 years.

 

[DerMeister]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">try this:
fundamentals of rifle marksmanship

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=26773.0

close for you and only 5 $ fee for under 21

you are getting symptoms of trying to run before you walk </div></div>

I'm interested in this as it's only 2 days and 2 hours away, but it seems cobbled together. Have you been to one?

 

[Dtarget]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

AS is the best value in rifle marksmanship instruction you can get. It will help you get the fundamentals down.

If you dont want to do that. Get a buddy and do some ball and dummy drills.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_ ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a habit of flinching, but only with my 308. I dont flinch with 223, 22, etc, are all fine, but I seem to have a terrible flinch with the 308.

I dry fire constantly, but when it comes to live fire, I flinch. My dry firing consists of a good sight picture, breathing, squeezing the trigger, etc. But here is the thing, the trigger does not surprise me. I have an Xmark triggger, and I am considering replacing it, but I'd rather just get this flinch taken care of rather than coping with equipment.

I researched some, and found that focusing on a point in the reticle helpes, getting the mind off the trigger pull to the point that it becomes unconsciously done.

Well hide, what's wrong with me? </div></div>

Shoot a magnum .30 caliber, working on flinching and other fundamentals until you are about beat to death. That will take care of a flinch on a .308 Win. I have a Ruger No. 1 in .300 H&H. It's fun to shoot and reload but I notice my .308 Win. seems much more easy to tame as a result. Nevertheless, and trying not to repeat others but the recoil should come as a "surprise" rather than something you anticipate. It is hard to put into words. But you need to shoot a lot and stay tucked in on the .308. After a while it is not the recoil you worry about since at this point you can call your shot and notice all the other things you might be doing wrong. Hope I'm making sense. If all else fails, shooting a lot will get rid of the flinching. Get your weapon, get to know it, shoot it a lot and don't change anything except yourself for improvement. Even that Ruger No. 1 shoots better than I can.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eye tat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just wondering if pistol shooting would be the same principle. Any thoughts on it , would help someone out that is just grtting back into shooting after 20 years. </div></div>

We've been shooting handguns of some sort in competition since the late 70's with most being Metallic Silhouette and the last 2+ years long range steel plate matches out to 1000 yards. I personally feel the same principles of overcoming flinch with a handgun is the same as rifles for the most part being it's a mental thing that has to be controlled. All the ideas mentioned already will help but if you start off with bad habits you'll find it takes a lot of training and willpower to overcome them.

Here is a short clip to show how one of our older pistols reacted when shot. Chris, my son learned very quickly excellent trigger control even when the whole gun is headed towards his head after moving pretty violently in his hand compared to a rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imJyqvJbfoY&feature=youtu.be

Some say it's muscle memory and maybe so but we've found that fully concentrating on wanting to see where that bullet is going at the target usually overcomes any tendency to just jerk the trigger and get it over with. We've never seen a hit or miss with the pistols but that is the technique we use and what happens after that round goes off is inconsequential since we're then along for the ride.

Keep at it and don't get frustrated, it'll get easier.

Topstrap

 

[DerMeister]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Hey Shay, I wanted to add something. I have read several times about getting "behind" the rifle. As in try get as straight behind the rifle as possible, instead of being off to one side(off to the left if you're right handed).

I did this today and it made the felt recoil far less for me. It made for a more enjoyable shoot experience, but more importantly more consistent groups. Everything just seemed to come together better when I positioned my self right behind the rifle.

Also worked on trying to call my shots, and keep my eyes open during the shot. I felt this helped too, making a conscious effort to do this.

Just things to think about, I fired 30rds and did 6 groups in an hour. All but one group was around 1". Usually I would one get 2 or 3 groups that were MOA with the rest having fliers, so there was definetly an improvment.

 

[sethmstanton]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Shay,

I don't believe the "quick fixes" as in moving to a heavier recoiling rifle. Reason being, all that does is temporarily get you used to the heavier recoil for as long as you shoot it. Once you go back to the .308 you will then, after sometime, forget how the .300 wm recoiled and you will become more used to the .308 and when that occurs, your flinch may return.

A muzzle brake will work, but i also don't believe that is the correct fix. Lots of people have been shooting unbraked 308's and heavier calibers with no flinch. There is no reason why you can't do it as well.

It, as Greg stated, is a problem with misdirected concentration and focus. You are not completely relaxed, and your focus is instead of being 99% crosshairs and 1% trigger control is 50% crossshair and 50% trigger control. Those are obviously just examples, but, the point is, your concentration is not where it should be. I do believe that ad your experience increases, you will become more accustomed to you trigger and that instance, it will be more difficult for the shot to surprise you, but, that's not to say that is where you are now. Focus on the intersection of the crosshairs, and if your dry fire has produced a proper trigger control, your shot should somewhat, catch you by surprise.

The issue you may run into with dry fire is when dry firing, you know there is no recoil to expect, so your flinch disappears. When you go to the range, you are now conscious of the live round in the chamber, and your flinch returns. Do not mistake this for saying dry fire has no positive affects. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is it us a problem with your focus, concentration, and relaxation. This must be addressed.

When you get behind the rifle, you need to ensure that your position is correct, and your bipod us loaded correctly. This will reduce the felt recoil of your rifle. If you do not have a proper stock to shoulder contact, the felt recoil will increase. I have found that if I am angled behing the rifle, when the shot brakes, my rifle will recoil to the right (I'm right handed), and if i am straight behind the rifle, but do not have my bipods loaded correctly, my rifle will hop to the left. Straight back behind the rifle, bipods loaded, proper firm contact between the stock, shoulder, and cheek will reduce the felt recoil. RELAX! It's not gonna kill you

.

Practice the above stated fundamentals, focus on the crosshairs not you trigger control, and fire in your NPA. I have found that when a flinch is happening, you hold your breath and tense your body in expectation of the breaking shot. Practice trying to observe your shot impact the target, call your shot, and dry fire.

Hope that helps bud......................RELAX !

 

[ANGLICOMarine]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_ ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a habit of flinching, but only with my 308. I dont flinch with 223, 22, etc, are all fine, but I seem to have a terrible flinch with the 308.

I dry fire constantly, but when it comes to live fire, I flinch. My dry firing consists of a good sight picture, breathing, squeezing the trigger, etc. But here is the thing, the trigger does not surprise me. I have an Xmark triggger, and I am considering replacing it, but I'd rather just get this flinch taken care of rather than coping with equipment.

I researched some, and found that focusing on a point in the reticle helpes, getting the mind off the trigger pull to the point that it becomes unconsciously done.

Well hide, what's wrong with me? </div></div>


Shooting groups at 100 yards and with a pistol at 15-25 yards helped me. I spent a year working in an indoor range when my ex-wife was going to grad school, whenever it got boring we would go out and shoot. A pistol is very unforgiving due in part to the short sight radius...you will very clearly see all the effects of a poor trigger pull/squeeze/press....whatever the term du jour is for making the gun go off...

 

[Trubester88]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

First, it takes constant dry firing which you are already doing. Then you need to have another person with you to either put a round in the chamber, or pretend putting a round in the chamber. Whether it goes off or not should not change a thing about how you pull that trigger. All the times you do flinch, it is because you know that there is a round in the chamber. By not knowing whether there is a round in the chamber, you will notice the times you do hesitate when you pull the trigger and push the barrel downward. Try it out. The next and final thing, is to get a different trigger reducing the amount of pull weight/travel. Or you could get dummy rounds scattered in a magazine and do it by yourself.

 

[Trubester88]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Also, shooting handguns (.45 preferably) is the best way to transfer bad habits into good methods.

 

[S.T.A. Training Group]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Shay,
When we have students with trigger control issues this is what we do and it fixes a lot of problems.... With your rifle UNLOADED, bolt locked to the rear, weapon on safe and oriented in a safe direction, take a soft ear plug and tape it to the front of the trigger where your trigger finger would go. This allows cushion while pressing the trigger and seems to relax the shooter mentally bc its nice and soft (not a psychologist just guessing). It has worked countless times for us with students who just cant break the habit and we have had AARs that say that helped.
Of course telling yourself "Reticle, reticle, reticle, reticle" as you control breathing is a must as well. To really see how bad your flinching is (or any basic fundamental) and over come it I have all our students shoot standing sling supported the first 1.5 days in our 5 day Precision Rifle Fighter course. This exploits the bad habits so we can see them at their most obvious point (in the standing) then fix it and by the time they go to the prone they are good to go.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Woj8541]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Shay,

It has been my experience through teaching the fundamentals of marksmanship that the habit of flinching is developed through a mental process of fear and pain put together. Somewhere along the line you shot a rifle in a terribly improper shooting position which probably hit you hard enough to cause immense surprise with resulting pain in your shoulder, or worse your collar bone. This tends to happen quite a bit with self-taught shooters. The remedy is not easy, nor quick but with dedication can be mastered.

For the most part the previous posts illustrate some excellent solutions. I would not, however, try to solve this problem moving up into a magnum caliber. This will only exacerbate the problem and cost you more money. Concentration on the fundamentals of marksmanship, meaning starting at ground zero/square one, WILL help the situation with a little assistance from outside help. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you a copy of my shooting position/fundamentals checklist to help you along.

These are the methods I use to cure flinching problems with my students. They work for me and those that the methods have helped, and I'm not discounting any others listed above. The more tools in the box means more choices for you. First, a flinch is easily detected by the shooter noticeably tightening the entire grip of the shooting hand while applying trigger control. Almost like a quick snatch. Also, the shooters eyes tend to close through the process of recoil. In a really terrible case the shooters shoulders will simultaneously hunch up which to me, shows a severe case. As soon as I see this I will lay next to the shooter and verbally coach them through the fundamental checklist. I'll let them send a couple rounds to see if the coaching had a visible improvement. I'll also check for consistency down range. After this I'll let the shooter position the shooting hand and trigger finger PROPERLY and have them check for NPA. I will then move into a position where I can put my finger over theirs. After again checking NPA, when the shooter hits the respiratory pause I'll apply the proper trigger control for them. It may not be an absolutely perfect sight alignment but the results are what count. The shooter has little idea when the shot is going to break, so the focus immediately goes to other fundamentals such as breathing, sight alignment and sight picture. When the shot does break the shooter usually has an epiphany and the light bulb turns on. "Ah, so this is what it's supposed to feel like..." is the usual response. Again, I'm not looking for knot-hole groups, I'm looking to show the shooter what proper trigger control actually produces. This is a common drill with a pistol.

Once I see results from this drill I'll load up a few magazines with dummy rounds and turn him loose with his trigger finger back. Keeping a close eye on him, I'll check progress downrange and if things are still helter-skelter, we'll go back to square one again. If there is progress I'll load one or two live rounds in the mag, fill the majority of it with dummies and then one live on the bottom of the stack. Usually I see clean no-flinch breaks on the dummy rounds a short time after.

Trigger control is one of the most difficult aspects of marksmanship to master and surprisingly it's one of the most neglected. I wish you the best and try to get yourself to some formal training. With so many credible courses popping up throughout the nation there is sure to be one close to you. Best luck to you and I'll look for that PM.

Cheers,

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

I would like to ask a question of the experts as I have not seen it discussed here. Is this primarily an issue with scopes?

The reason I ask, I sometimes have this when firing a higher power .30 cal scoped rifle initially after firing .223 for example. However, I never have this problem with iron sights on my Garand's, K31, Mosin's etc.

Just curious if the magnified "picture" in the optic along with the recoil/noise has an effect on the flinch?

 

[PMain]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

I experienced something similar but w/ my 12gauge. I found adjusting my hold, letting it rise higher, which allowed me to straighten my neck more really helped. It felt awkward, but I noticed an immediate improvement. I found I wasn't focusing so much on preventing it the flinch as worrying about how I was holding it. Its work on my shooting w/ my AR.

Helpfully you'll resolve this & thanks for the question, some the responses here have given me some new things to work on

 

[sethmstanton]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to ask a question of the experts as I have not seen it discussed here. Is this primarily an issue with scopes?

The reason I ask, I sometimes have this when firing a higher power .30 cal scoped rifle initially after firing .223 for example. However, I never have this problem with iron sights on my Garand's, K31, Mosin's etc.

Just curious if the magnified "picture" in the optic along with the recoil/noise has an effect on the flinch? </div></div>

Common. With iron sights your focus is where it needs to be....on your front sight post. Not the target, because you can't see the target as well. With modern high quality scopes I find that it makes it much more difficult to focus on the intersection of tje crisshairs because the picture and target are so clear.

Your focus with iron sights is on the front sight post, and with your scope your focus is not as intense as with your iron sights which gives way to your focus on the trigger pull, and in turn you begin anticipating recoil and trying to prepare for it. Hence, the flinch and the buck.

Just because you can see your target more clearly does not mean that your focus on the intersection of the crosshairs should be or can be, any less intense than your focus on the front sight. If your focus is not where it should be, than it gives way to your focus somewhere else. In this instant it is on tour trigger control and the recoil.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

My Elder Brothers cured me of trigger jerk by blunting a thumb tack and taping it to to the trigger, point first (of course). I believe I was eight at the time, they were 18 and 19.

It was simply impossible to pound on the trigger.

It also taught me not to linger, either. The trigger pull should be a smoothly progressive increase of effort; firm, smooth, and relatively soon.

When the sight picture is right, what else is there to wait around for?

Greg

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HogsLife</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tempest 455</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to ask a question of the experts as I have not seen it discussed here. Is this primarily an issue with scopes?

The reason I ask, I sometimes have this when firing a higher power .30 cal scoped rifle initially after firing .223 for example. However, I never have this problem with iron sights on my Garand's, K31, Mosin's etc.

Just curious if the magnified "picture" in the optic along with the recoil/noise has an effect on the flinch? </div></div>

Common. With iron sights your focus is where it needs to be....on your front sight post. Not the target, because you can't see the target as well. With modern high quality scopes I find that it makes it much more difficult to focus on the intersection of tje crisshairs because the picture and target are so clear.

Your focus with iron sights is on the front sight post, and with your scope your focus is not as intense as with your iron sights which gives way to your focus on the trigger pull, and in turn you begin anticipating recoil and trying to prepare for it. Hence, the flinch and the buck.

Just because you can see your target more clearly does not mean that your focus on the intersection of the crosshairs should be or can be, any less intense than your focus on the front sight. If your focus is not where it should be, than it gives way to your focus somewhere else. In this instant it is on tour trigger control and the recoil. </div></div>

Thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking, however, you explained it in a much more detailed fashion.

 

[lessthanfour]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

not a quick fix but gaining muscle is a homemade recoil pad

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_ ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a habit of flinching, but only with my 308. I dont flinch with 223, 22, etc, are all fine, but I seem to have a terrible flinch with the 308.

I dry fire constantly, but when it comes to live fire, I flinch. My dry firing consists of a good sight picture, breathing, squeezing the trigger, etc. But here is the thing, the trigger does not surprise me. I have an Xmark triggger, and I am considering replacing it, but I'd rather just get this flinch taken care of rather than coping with equipment.

I researched some, and found that focusing on a point in the reticle helpes, getting the mind off the trigger pull to the point that it becomes unconsciously done.

Well hide, what's wrong with me?</div></div>

You've developed a flinch, a simple change up of how you shoot can help get rid of it. Unless its a case of vaginitis

Really though the best thing to do is load up some dummy rounds using your fired brass. If you can tell they are duds it wont do you any good. Just mix them up with your regular ammo. Dry fire like you have been then force yourself to do the same thing while you shoot. The dummy rounds will surprise you and you'll be able to see what your doing in regards to the flinch. Maybe your yanking the trigger, pulling your shoulder away from the recoil, or trying to push the rifle forward. It won't take to long for you to realize exactly what's going on then it's on you to overcome the mental mind f*** and correct it. The more dummy rounds you have spread throughout the better. This also works well for all types of shooting. If someone mentioned it before me then sorry but I didn't want to read through the entire thread myself.

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lessthanfour</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not a quick fix but gaining muscle is a homemade recoil pad </div></div>

In my case that's not the issue. My Garand kicks more than my other rifles. It's the scope issue as posted above.

 

[MillerRed4]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

I see everyone telling you dry mag drills such so I won't beat that to death, one thing that may help is shooting offhand i.e. if your a righty shoot your left. If its a new enough concept to you it will feel akward and wierd to shoot your .308 from that pos. Your body will focus on trying to feel normal that you shouldn't flinch, your shots will still prob be off your target but it may help.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

When I was a kid I shot so much smallbore that I had pretty good fundamentals when I moved to the national match course and started shooting 30 caliber.... BUT, I developed a flinch when I did....

Back then, I had those God aweful metal braces and if you have a good, proper stock weld with your upper lip resting on your thumb, you can surely make a mess out of your mouth shooting an M14 in a rapid fire string if you're 14yrs old.

I ended up using wax in the braces... LOTS of it but, it looked pretty stupid but it worked... then I had to do a lot of training to get rid of the idea that I was going to walk away bleeding again.... I was able to rid myself of it finally by not focusing on the trigger but, making it a secondary concern to the front post.... front post and steady slow pull when the post was in the right place....

So, I psyched myself into working on calling the shot better rather than attempting to think about trigger control so much. For me, I already knew trigger discipline. I also knew that if I could not call my shot then, I may as well go home because I was wasting my time and ammunition. I worked out of it but, it was all in shot calling that helped so much.

Don't know if any of this will help or not but, I'm just relating a story and an expierience.

Shooting off a bipod or something like that is so much different and flinching etc. produce the same issues but, it's probably harder to work out than when you're in a sling and you immediately see the results of a flinch much more exaggerated.

EDIT: I guess by saying all of that, I was trying to say to focus on the other side of the flinch, so to speak. Focus on the advanced fundamentals of shooting that require the flinch to be gone to achieve. It worked for me but, everyone has to find a way to get past it. As said above, it's a mental thing you have to address and, it can only be addressed after addressing what gave you the flinch in the first place.

I do agree that many things can cause it.... Improper form and fatigue probably give more folks a flinch than anything else.... Man, I used to be a really good offhand shooter but when moving to shooting high power, the rapid strings gave me fits at first. Being young when I started... having the braces and the hardcore focus a rapid string takes and applying the fundamentals but QUICKLY... a flinch was in the mail... By the end of a rapid string, the fatigue thing does apply... sort of.... you're getting a shot off every couple of seconds... trigger control, breathing, changing magazines, spotting your first two shots in the mag change... it takes total focus on the task at hand which not throwing away everything you've learned as a smallbore shooter.

Man, I SUCKED at rapid strings at first... started and my 200yd string was in the 80s... Luckly, I had two good coaches... as I got it addressed, I started cleaning my targets but, it was a lot of work... at the end of it, it was TOTAL focus that fixes such problems. It's 100% a mental game.

If you find yourself flinching, stop whatever you're doing and go home if you have to rather than reinforce bad habits.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Good stuff has been mentioned


A list of a few things to remember.

Hearing protection – plug up well, eliminates the big bang startle scare the shit out you effect

Turn your magnification down some on the scope to eliminate signs of movement causing you to tense up and trying to over correct.

Focus on the target and not the reticule – let the reticule float over what you’re looking at, thus eliminating trying to over correct and tensing up.

Let the shot happen – stay relaxed and shoot!, if it isn’t going right back out take a breath and then start over versus forcing the shot. Tension, panic and flinching all the same happen when we are trying to shoot a very small group, folks tend to dwell on not messing up a perfect group or target and fear missing rather then having confidence and shooting a good shot this in turn combined with a fear of muzzle blast or a hard kicking gun build fear, flinch.

Having fun and shooting well go hand in hand just learn to control things with a few simple steps and your groups or hits on targets will become more and more thus building your confidence.

Good luck

oneshot.onehit

 

[jwoolf]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot.onehit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Focus on the target and not the reticule – let the reticule float over what you’re looking at thus eliminating trying try to over correct and tensing up.

</div></div>

I'd keep my focus on the reticle and not the target... you'll still see the target.
For rifle shooting, keep your focus on the post or the reticle, for a shotgun, keep your focus on the target.

If you have enough focus and apply proper trigger discipline, you can break the shot correctly and with that super-focus on the reticle, you'll know exactly where it was when the shot broke and eliminate your flinch, IMHO.

You should be applying trigger pressure when the reticle is in the right place and holding that pressure when it isn't... keep applying pressure and, you'll eventually break the shot and with your focus in the right place, you'll know where it went. Just be patient and resist the urge to hurry the shot.

Sounds easy but, it isn't always.

 

[pprochnow]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Great discussion on this one,
I use full power ammo with some sub sonic mixed in. The subs feel like rimfire in comparison to the others. A flinch becomes pretty obvious...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

I think that focusing on the target is why ergonomics is so important with the shotgun. I think that focusing on the target only works when the firearm and shooter become a single and invariable unit. If it doesn't 'fit the shooter' properly, things don't work so well. That's probably why I tend to fit dot scopes to my shotguns; I use generic guns.

Greg

 

[175G]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

As my brain cannot register recoil in a way that induces a flinch I will tell you what works for a similar problem I have which is muzzle blast from adjacent rifles causing me to flinch. The thing that works best is removing ear pro but as this is not good for you and can get you DQed the next best is consistent breathing and focusing on something like your trigger pull even if its first nature, doing so conciously distracts you from the problem.

 

[WhiteCliffsOfDover]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.



You have got to get your mind right!!

When you squeeze the trigger or jerk it.......the recoil still happens. You have to decide before you pick up a rifle that causes you to flinch if you are going to shoot to miss or hit.........the recoil still happened with a hit or miss.

 

[SGT TickleFight]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eznutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing that I notice in my shooting is how tight you are holding the rifle. Overall if I'm too tense before a shot, i'll flinch. Loosen your grip on the rifle, its not goint to bite you. Relax, focus on the target, breath then shoot. I'm not a pro but I've identified what works for me. Most of these guys have been behind the rifle for years so shooting is easier than spelling their login names. For me it comes with time behind the rifle, the more time spent the more familiar you are with how it feels.

Sooner than later you will notice you have maintained good sight picture through the shot and you will see the hits/misses.

spend the time necessary behind your rifle and you will find your "zone". Then you find it is easier and easier to come by. It will be second nature, just like breathing. You won't even think about it.

Like I said it works for me and may or may not be the trick for you. Best of luck and good shooting.
</div></div>

This. Worked with my 300wm last weekend. I just made sure i was tucked into my shoulder and loosely held the stock. I had a lot of rust to brush off as i was going back to prone bipod from double bagged on the bench. I could tell when i had good follow through and i would see round touching at 100 yards afterward.

I'm sore as hell today but i would be just as sore if i had been prepping for the recoil. I didn't flinch with this gun until i got scope bit now i'm fighting with mental demons every shot.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that focusing on the target is why ergonomics is so important with the shotgun. I think that focusing on the target only works when the firearm and shooter become a single and invariable unit. If it doesn't 'fit the shooter' properly, things don't work so well. That's probably why I tend to fit dot scopes to my shotguns; I use generic guns.

Greg </div></div>

VERY true of shotguns.... The other thing about shotguns is learning how to swing them with your knees and not your waist... if you're swinging your entire body with your knees... or better put, you're shifting your weight between your feet, you stay completely locked into the shotgun seeing the barrel of the shotgun in your peripheral vision while focusing on the flying target completely. Just doing that, will make a shooter shoot about twice as well as before. The swing when done correctly keeps you from ending up in a strange position... trying to reach for the target, leaning to try to stay on the target, all of which puts your body in awkward positions. Also, I found that after somebody showed me the correct way to swing with my knees my swing got VERY smooth and effortless and with your focus on the target, your swing moves effortlessly with the target and you making the adjustments in your periferal (sp?) vision to lead it correctly.

As you can probably tell... I shot a lot of skeet and sporting clays for a while. Not really doing that all the time anymore but still love to shoot a round of sporting clays every now and then. I'm still a rifle shooter at heart... always have been.

 

[willlongrifle]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Try practicing with a flintlock muzzle loader. It will help with
your flinching,follow through and its fun.

Just my two pennies.

 

[northern shooter]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Ok im gonna just go out and say it dont take it personally just work on it, DONT-BE-A-PUSSY-BE-A-FUCKEN-MAN.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Here's an update-

I did a lot of dry firing, and got my bro to load duds into my mag randomly, and it helped, but I'm not all the way to where I'd like to be. I'm shooting MOA 5 shot groups, but I can tell I'm still anticipating the shot.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

If you are anticipatings the shot (I.e., you know just about when it's gonna happen), then the odds are very good you're forcing the shot. Some folks call that jerking the trigger but I don't, because forcing the shot is something else. But whatever you call it, you've gotta stop doing it.

Here's a test.

Have someone watch you shoot from your aiming eye side.

All they do is watch your eye. It will close with every shot.

If it closes before the shot, you're forcing.

If it closes after, then your trigger squeeze is correct and you are not able to anticipate the trigger's break. When this happens, and only when this happens, you will finally be able to call your shot.

This test does not lie and there's no arguing with it.

Greg

 

[_Shay_]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are anticipatings the shot (I.e., you know just about when it's gonna happen), then the odds are very good you're forcing the shot. Some folks call that jerking the trigger but I don't, because forcing the shot is something else. But whatever you call it, you've gotta stop doing it.

Here's a test.

Have someone watch you shoot from your aiming eye side.

All they do is watch your eye. It will close with every shot.

If it closes before the shot, you're forcing.

If it closes after, then your trigger squeeze is correct and you are not able to anticipate the trigger's break. When this happens, and only when this happens, you will finally be able to call your shot.

This test does not lie and there's no arguing with it.

Greg </div></div>

Thanks for the test, Sir.

I'll try it out come Friday.

 

[my human host]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Sometime back I lost control of a grinder and ended up with a two and a half inch long cut/tear in my throat/neck. It bled over into my shooting and caused a nasty flinch.

One thing that helped tremendously was learning to shoot with both eyes WIDE open and my jaw relaxed. I can't tell you exactly why it worked, only that it did.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

One problem I've found is I can not get comfortable straight behind the rifle. The stock doesnt sit in the pocket of my shoulder well.

If I have a 10-15 degree offset, it feels natural, but I read that I have to get straight behind the rifle.

 

[DerMeister]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_ ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One problem I've found is I can not get comfortable straight behind the rifle. The stock doesnt sit in the pocket of my shoulder well.

If I have a 10-15 degree offset, it feels natural, but I read that I have to get straight behind the rifle. </div></div>

I have to do the same, or at least until I move my scope back a little in the rings. Other wise my head sits back too far and I cannot get a good full sight picture. However, even a slight offset doesn't make a huge difference for me.

I have basically gotten rid of my flinch after reading some of the suggestions you got on here.

First thing that helped was getting behind the rifle, shouldering properly, and loading up the bipod if you're using it.

Secondly, I learned to call my shots, taking my focus off of the recoil. I can instantly see my shots after shooting, I never loose the sight picutre.

Third, I shot a k98, which fires a 7.62x57mm 196gr cartridge. It recoils a lot more than my heavy 700 firing the .308. After shooting that, the heavy .308 feels like nothing.

 

[Outerspace]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

1) Shoot a higher power caliber for a while.

2) Shoot with your opposite hand for awhile.

3) Zen: I imagine I am not even at the shooting range and am watching the target on TV (the scope is my TV) and the trigger is a remote control to a gun far away. I got so much more still doing that.

 

[dofus kamas]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

May Day go Famen play

 

[prekarious]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DerMeister</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _Shay_ ©</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One problem I've found is I can not get comfortable straight behind the rifle. The stock doesnt sit in the pocket of my shoulder well.

If I have a 10-15 degree offset, it feels natural, but I read that I have to get straight behind the rifle. </div></div>

I have to do the same, or at least until I move my scope back a little in the rings. Other wise my head sits back too far and I cannot get a good full sight picture. However, even a slight offset doesn't make a huge difference for me.

I have basically gotten rid of my flinch after reading some of the suggestions you got on here.

First thing that helped was getting behind the rifle, shouldering properly, and loading up the bipod if you're using it.

Secondly, I learned to call my shots, taking my focus off of the recoil. I can instantly see my shots after shooting, I never loose the sight picutre.

Third, I shot a k98, which fires a 7.62x57mm 196gr cartridge. It recoils a lot more than my heavy 700 firing the .308. After shooting that, the heavy .308 feels like nothing. </div></div>



So shooting a 7.62 had more recoil than your .308?
Or did you mean the 8x57js?

 

[DerMeister]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Yeah, my bad the 7.92x57 or the 8x57. Out of the k98 the felt recoil was far greater than the .308 out of my 700 with optics and accesories.

 

[_Shay_]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

UPDATE- FLinch is gone. Did dud drills, dry fire, and just shot more, and it's gone now. Glad that is done with.

 

[Wolfish365]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

That's good news! Glad to hear hard work is paying off!

 

[Kenny Blankenship]

Re: Getting rid of a flinch.

Too late to post this. I never managed to develop a flinch, but I used to complain about the recoil of my 4 1/2 pound 12 gauge. After I got an 8 1/2 pound 458 win mag, the 12 bore was nothing at all. If the 458 makes me flinch I don't realize it because of the headache I get within 10 rounds or so. That thing should be crew served.