To the gunsmiths here, I'm looking for a bit of advice on getting started with gunsmithing. I'm particularly interested in building precision rifles for myself, not just assembling from components as I've done over the years, but chambering and fitting barrels, fluting, truing actions, etc. I've been looking at ways of using my hard earned GI Bill before it expires and am seriously considering attending a gunsmithing school like Trinidad or Yavapai, but I've got to wait a couple years before I'll be able to move back to the States and take a long break from work. So in the meantime would I be crazy to buy a lathe and mill and just slowly tinker with the basics on my own? Learning how to cut threads, profile barrels, timing, etc? Or is this one of those things I'm just better off waiting to get some formal instruction?
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Gunsmithing Getting started in gunsmithing
- Thread starter Dogtown
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I'm not a pro. I've been doing my own work for around ten years. Just so you know who's talking.
Buying some equipment and starting as soon as you can strikes me as being an excellent idea. If nothing else, you will know what questions to ask and what your weak areas are when you get around to attending school.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to tell you to do research when picking a school. If your area of interest is strictly precision rifles, make that clear to the instructors you speak with.
I chose to dive in without any formal training.
Buying some equipment and starting as soon as you can strikes me as being an excellent idea. If nothing else, you will know what questions to ask and what your weak areas are when you get around to attending school.
I'm pretty sure I don't have to tell you to do research when picking a school. If your area of interest is strictly precision rifles, make that clear to the instructors you speak with.
I chose to dive in without any formal training.
That's exactly what I did going from the Army into computer graphics, but working with a lathe and mill seems potentially more dangerous than a computer, hence my hesitation.
There's a local university here that has engineering classes, but nothing that I think I could take casually without enrolling in a degree program. My day job can get pretty demanding as it is, so perhaps finding a local machinist who I can hire to teach me basic stuff on a less formal basis would be wise?
That would help. Just keep in mind there are many types of machinists. Pay attention, but take everything with a grain of salt. His skill set and standards may be specific to the tasks he's been performing, be it general repair, production, etc.
Not a gunsmith, but I'm on a similar path as you; looking at using GI Bill for a school like Yavapai or something along those lines. I looked into the Penn Foster program a while back. I can't imagine it would be anything hands-on, but might be a good primer to get some information thrown at the gray matter and see what sticks for later...
I am currently in gunsmithing school at Montgomery Community College in NC. I am enjoying the courses a lot. We do everything from general, repair to barreling and chambering to making stocks from blanks, 1911 building and bluing/refinishing. I am in my second semester and am truing three actions and threading barrels and cutting chambers in one class. The other class I am making a two piece stock from a blank. These are things I would never have tried before going to school. Have an instructor to ask questions if I am not sure what to do. He doesn't hold our hand and expects us to try things on our own but is there if we are gonna truly ruin something.
Not a gunsmith, but would millwright classes help in this situation?
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Posting to keep track of this one. I've worked off and on lately with a few gunsmiths. Repair, restore and Cerakote type work and I've learned a lot but wouldn't mind getting more into the actual machining and building side like truing, chambering, threading and finishing.
I build 2 or 3 rifles a year for myself.
I started 25 years ago hitting the pawn shops at lunch and buying every broken rifle I could find. I would buy parts and Numrich and sell the fixed rifles on consignment at other pawn shops.
What really gave me a boost was when I loaned someone the money to build a machine shop. The documentation showed all the stuff I had never heard of; surface plate, height gauge, di-chem, parallel bars, a big lathe, a knee mill, welder, pin gauges, gauge blocks, depth gauges, dial indicators, magnetic bases, test indicators, fly cutters, boring heads, optivisor, angle plates, rotary table, collets, 115 piece premium drill sets, drill and tap chart on the wall, copy of Machinery's handbook, DRO, etc.
I started reading the machinist forum, rec.crafts.metalworking and practical machinist, and home shop machinist.
I have dozens of books on gunsmithing. I buy a lot of parts from brownells. I talk to the tech advisers at Brownells. They know a lot about reamers and paint.
I went to a hole in the wall gun store run by a gunsmith, bought a pound of powder and asked a stupid question or two about truing rifle actions.
There were some great posts on The Firing Line 15 years ago by Gale McMillan [a rem700 and benchrest guy].
There were some great posts on rec.guns 20 years ago by Bart Bobbitt [A Win M70 and high power competitor at Camp Perry].
When ever I see John Benjamin [barrel maker and high power competitor] at machine auctions, I ask him stupid questions.
I started writing up range reports like lab reports to figure out what was working and what was not working for accuracy.
I started handloading in my vehicle for long range target practice.
I started 25 years ago hitting the pawn shops at lunch and buying every broken rifle I could find. I would buy parts and Numrich and sell the fixed rifles on consignment at other pawn shops.
What really gave me a boost was when I loaned someone the money to build a machine shop. The documentation showed all the stuff I had never heard of; surface plate, height gauge, di-chem, parallel bars, a big lathe, a knee mill, welder, pin gauges, gauge blocks, depth gauges, dial indicators, magnetic bases, test indicators, fly cutters, boring heads, optivisor, angle plates, rotary table, collets, 115 piece premium drill sets, drill and tap chart on the wall, copy of Machinery's handbook, DRO, etc.
I started reading the machinist forum, rec.crafts.metalworking and practical machinist, and home shop machinist.
I have dozens of books on gunsmithing. I buy a lot of parts from brownells. I talk to the tech advisers at Brownells. They know a lot about reamers and paint.
I went to a hole in the wall gun store run by a gunsmith, bought a pound of powder and asked a stupid question or two about truing rifle actions.
There were some great posts on The Firing Line 15 years ago by Gale McMillan [a rem700 and benchrest guy].
There were some great posts on rec.guns 20 years ago by Bart Bobbitt [A Win M70 and high power competitor at Camp Perry].
When ever I see John Benjamin [barrel maker and high power competitor] at machine auctions, I ask him stupid questions.
I started writing up range reports like lab reports to figure out what was working and what was not working for accuracy.
I started handloading in my vehicle for long range target practice.
If you have a pretty good handle on mechanical things...... do your own car,motorcycle,lawnmower household repairs i.e. have common sense...you can probably learn a lot by yourself and doing research on things via.www and u-tube....
I'm just getting into building rifles myself, but have been building custom 1911s for about 20 years. Hardest part after understanding in detail how things work was actually cutting and filing on expensive parts, knowing that if I made a mistake, it was going to cost me. After that, it's just a matter of practice and building your knowledge base. Gunsmith specific training is great if you have time and money to do it. Next best would be machining courses at a tech college. If you don't have that, there's a whole lot of good info available online. For example, MIT has a bunch of videos on basic mill, lathe, and other machines. Here's the first on the mill - MIT video.
If I was you I'd do one or the other. Either get some machinery and tooling under the guidance of a person who builds the types of rifles you want to build and dabble, or wait and start from scratch with proper full-time/professional instruction. If you dabbled without guidance and then went to school, you'd likely see a very different way to do things which aren't the way you've just learned- you may likely have to re-learn. Or you'll look at new methods and think "that's a much better way, why didn't I do that". It wouldn't be a looser but its a question of efficiency. You may also learn a lot about things that you may not apply to your daily work. Learning to blue gun parts may not get applied to todays modern rifle builds
If you were to dabble and learn at your own pace, you would likely find a high sense of accomplishment to creating an accurate rifle. You would save money, you would be on the slower track to your goal. I looked at classes, couldn't find anything that I could do while still doing my other [primary] job, so I sought guidance from whoever would provide it. I found this to be very rewarding, just make sure youre buying right. Don't get the wrong machinery or tooling because you thought you knew what you wanted
To be honest, this is not difficult work for a person who is methodical and detail oriented. If youre not methodical and detail oriented then don't even bother
If you were to dabble and learn at your own pace, you would likely find a high sense of accomplishment to creating an accurate rifle. You would save money, you would be on the slower track to your goal. I looked at classes, couldn't find anything that I could do while still doing my other [primary] job, so I sought guidance from whoever would provide it. I found this to be very rewarding, just make sure youre buying right. Don't get the wrong machinery or tooling because you thought you knew what you wanted
To be honest, this is not difficult work for a person who is methodical and detail oriented. If youre not methodical and detail oriented then don't even bother
I would like to take it up as a hobby but I would prefer to learn from someone with experience. I found out as a mechanic that there are little tips and tricks that make you take a step back and think why did I make this so complicated. The detail oriented part would be good for me, I am very particular about doing shit right that it makes me hard to work with others.
If you're in California during the summer check out the Summer NRA Gunsmith Classes at Lassen Community College. Inexpensive and worth a lot.
http://www.lassencollege.edu/Assets/program-pages/gunsmithing/2014 Gunsmithing Summer Brochure.pdf
Classes are $46 per week plus a small registration fee per summer.
If you search through the links you can find tool lists and gun requirements for each class. The instructors are great. A week there will get you familiar with their 2 year program and what it takes to be a full time smith.
http://www.lassencollege.edu/Assets/program-pages/gunsmithing/2014 Gunsmithing Summer Brochure.pdf
Classes are $46 per week plus a small registration fee per summer.
If you search through the links you can find tool lists and gun requirements for each class. The instructors are great. A week there will get you familiar with their 2 year program and what it takes to be a full time smith.
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The risks are, in order:
1) You hurt yourself. Mills aren't to be messed with, but lathes are even worse. Those things will remove limbs or kill you if you screw up.
2) You hurt the machine. Crashing a machine due to inattention can get very expensive.
3) You ruin parts. This is about the cheapest way to screw up, but it's what scares away most people.
Hopefully you get the impression that the first goal is to not hurt yourself, and the second is to not hurt the machine. Experienced machinists do not always make the best instructors, because many of them simply have safely ingrained through their subconscious and are thus not able to effectively teach the concept, and many more have simply gotten lucky. This is where good, formal, hands-on instruction is extremely valuable.
Once you know how to use the machines without hurting yourself or the equipment, then the vast majority of the learning can take place via self-education.
1) You hurt yourself. Mills aren't to be messed with, but lathes are even worse. Those things will remove limbs or kill you if you screw up.
2) You hurt the machine. Crashing a machine due to inattention can get very expensive.
3) You ruin parts. This is about the cheapest way to screw up, but it's what scares away most people.
Hopefully you get the impression that the first goal is to not hurt yourself, and the second is to not hurt the machine. Experienced machinists do not always make the best instructors, because many of them simply have safely ingrained through their subconscious and are thus not able to effectively teach the concept, and many more have simply gotten lucky. This is where good, formal, hands-on instruction is extremely valuable.
Once you know how to use the machines without hurting yourself or the equipment, then the vast majority of the learning can take place via self-education.
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