Getting started on a budget...

[kravi]

Ok, so I'm a new precision shooter. I've been doing USPSA and 2-gun for some time, but now I'm getting involved in NRL Hunter and PRS. I'm on an inevitable budget (I still can't figure out how people who make less money than me - and no, I'm not rich - can afford those sexy rifles and crazy expensive reloading tools; yes, I'm looking at you AMP Mk. 2 machines). So being the nerd I am, I've started doing homework and putting together a list. Before I lay it out, hoping for feedback (negative is just as, if not more, important than positive), I want to share objectives. I say this, because there is no way I'm going to be reloading 9mm. For USPSA / 2-Gun, gimme my cheap blazer 124 gr all day long. It is easy and I don't need anything more accurate. So, here we go.

Objective:
I'd like to reload top quality NRL Hunter (6.5cm) and PRS (undecided - for the time being I'm using the same rifle for both - and I'll give it to the end of the season [2025] to determine whether I'm doing 6 dasher or whatever the new sexiness is) cartridges. I'd like single digit SD (preferably sub-8) based on a 10-shot string.

Caveats:
My wife is the love of my life. Because of that, I'd like to minimize the expense. She accepts my hobbies, but I don't want to add stressors to our otherwise beatific relationship. So consider me poor.

Conditions:
Because I have a full time job, three kids, a wonderful wife, 2-gun and USPSA hobbies, I'm not going to be shooting a ridiculously large amount of ammo in an NRL Hunter or PRS context. Hell, I do a lot more positional dry firing at home (build this awesome shooting tree leveraged with a DFAT on my scope). So I have zero problems taking more time to make ammo (for now) as long as the end result is top notch.

Ok, so here is my list. This is from someone who is a total newb and spent too much time trying to figure out exactly what I needed to make great ammo without ever having made ammo. So criticize freely.

Item Type	Item Name	Notes
Single Stage Press	RCBS 9356 Rock Chucker	Don't care - if there is something better, please advise
Case Ejector System	InLine Fabrication	Seemed like it was worth the $60. Thoughts?
Die Bushings	Hornady Lock N Load Die Bushings	allow hot swapping between calibers if I ever go to 6 Dasher or whatever for PRS
Headspace Gauge Kit	Hornady HK66
Comparator Body	Hornady Lock-N-Load
Sizing / Seating Die Set	Forster Ultra Die Set	Read a gazillion thoughts on this. Right now I'm just under the "good enough and good price". Thoughts?
Bullet Puller	Lyman
Powder Dispenser	Hornady Auto Charge Pro	I saw a few videos showing that this, on medium, was pretty precise and excellent vs all others at similar price point
Case Lube	Hornady One Shot (10oz)
Stuck Case Remover	RCBS
Scale	Thinkscale	Backup scale in addition to powder dispenser
Checkweight Set	Lyman
Case Primer	Frankford Arsenal Hand Primer
Brass Cleaner	Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler	Honestly, if I can find anything used that does dry tumbling, I'd take it.
Universal Loading Block	Hornady Universal Loading Block	Not sold on this, but need something to hold my cases throughout the process. Think multiples.
Annealer	Burstfire 2 in 1	Ok, we all love AMP, but this is cheap as crap and comes with options for case prep as well built in.
Feed Ramp for Annealer	Short Case Feed Ramp
Case Prep - Trim, Chamfer, Debur	Burstfire Case Prep Tool
Funnels	Lyman Brass Smith Pro Funnel	Almost went with the Are 419, but this was almost the same and much cheaper.

Anwyay folks, I'm not sure what I'm missing and what I could swap for something better on the same budget. Right now, list price is ~$1858 (ok, that's not roughly, that's exact), but there is a fair amount I could get 2nd hand and save a bundle.

Please let me know what y'all think and any advice is good advice.

TLDR: I want awesome ammo and want to make it cheap, will compromise on how much time I put in to it (ie I'll put in extra time to save a few hundred / thousand over all)

Cheers!

P.S. I love being able to copy and paste from a spreadsheet into here!

 

[Evintos]

1. You're missing calipers and shell holder.
2. Go with a Derraco Bullet & Headspace Comparator kit instead of the Hornady.
3. The Inline Fab case ejector is kind of a luxury item and is not really needed.
4. Collet style bullet puller like the Hornady Cam-Lock work better than the inertia/hammer style but requires buying collets for various bullet diameters.
5. If you're going with Forster dies, get their stuck case remover instead of the RCBS. It's purpose designed for their dies.
6. Chronograph - you're not gonna know unless you have a way to measure, spend the money on a radar style chronograph.

 

[slm9s]

if you have a wife and kids, you want to be efficient with your time. Buy two presses and have your Sizer in one and your seater die in the other. Grab a piece of brass and size it while your powder thrower is throwing the powder charge. Once it's sized and primed, your powder charge is ready. Next seat the bullet and put the cartridge back in the case. Grab your next piece and size it and then prime it and now your powder charge is ready once again. You get a little assembly line going so there's no waiting ever, and it's impossible to double charge or not charge a case this way.

 

[45-90]

Forget your PRS ambitions, it's not important at all in the scheme of things in life.

The cost is to high to the family, in time spent and money is wasted...especially if you go deep into the rabbit hole of shooting hobbies.

Nothing you could accomplish here is important, and noone cares about your shooting skills or accomplishments ...really.

What you do with an individual shooting hobbie should be very limited in expense and time.
Try have as many immediate family members as possible involved....which is likely not many, but you'll build relationships where it matters.

Spend your time where its most important.
Your wife and kids are your top priority, as they actually need you, and care at least to some extent...teenagers can be difficult.

You'll thank me a few yrs down the road.

 

[hewlett260]

Getting a Forster Co-ax press will eliminate a lot of the things like quick insert bushings and case ejector from your list.

Don't worry about cleaning brass. It's a waste of time and money unless you just want shiny brass.

Forster die set is good, need a trimmer, calipers, comparators...

My initial reloading investment was a Redding kit off of a group buy on here. Came with everything I needed to get up and running except dies, calipers and components.

The annealer is a luxury. Nice to have but not needed for peak anything except case life and chances are you will lose tension on your primer pockets before you ever see a case failure if your dies are set properly.

 

[JustSendit]

Don't worry about cleaning brass. It's a waste of time and money unless you just want shiny brass.

Personally, I wouldn’t not clean brass after it’s been lubed/sized. A cheap vibratory tumbler and walnut or rice media, I think is worth the cost and time.

Are you skipping cleaning altogether?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

This triggers a pet peeve of mine so here goes from the soap box....

I have no problem creating 1/2MOA ammo using a basic setup and skipping many expensive steps like annealing entirely. I'd start with just what you need and check your results before spending more money and time reloading. I shoot just about every week and have been doing so and reloading since the 80's.

The Internet with all of its influencers have convinced people they have to spend hundreds of dollars on specialty equipment and do a bunch of extra steps. I think most of those channels should be called "Please look at my sponsor's gear while I overthink this"

I use a Single-stage press with Hornady Lock-n-Load die bushings so you can set it once and move between steps and calibers easily. I use a Mec Marksman, Rock Chucker is a solid choice as well.

Steps:
1. Lee de-capping die and clean primer pocket - Optional and a bit overkill. I have a Frankford case prep machine and use it to get rid of primer crimps as well. Handy to have an electric case prep for this and chamfering the necks. I clean the primers before tumble to keep anything abrasive away from my sizing dies, not for better ammo.

2. Any tumbler - I use both Hornady and Franford (louder than Hornady)- loud so make sure you have a place in the house that will not drive everyone crazy. I like the Lyman Green Corn Cob media.

3. Poke dry media out of primer pockets, any small punch

4. Lube - I use a single tray in a plastic tub and One-Shot. Fumes suck so I take the tub outside to spray.

5. Resize - I use the Hornady basic dies and HORNADY shell holder (important to buy Hornady shell holder for case trimming). Full-length standard die set - no neck bushings etc. I've tried them in the past and unless you are chasing bench rest accuracy and have the rifle to support it, I don't see any better results. I also full length resize as I have a lot of guns and don't usually size brass for a single rifle.

My one size fits all 6.5C load shoots better than factory match ammo in all my rifles. (lower SD and ES, groups are slightly better) If I buy quality brass and keep track of loadings, better yet. Most of the time I am just shooting sorted and weighted range pick up. I have found that most of the time, if I develop a load for my best rifle, it works well enough in my others as well.

6. I do a short second tumble and poke out media from primer pockets to get the lube off. Probably overkill.

7. Trim using Hornady case trimmer. The Shell holder has to be Hornady for the post that holds the case to fit though the hole. Other shell holders have smaller holes and don't work with this tool. Chamfer neck and clean out brass dust with a nylon brush on case prep tool.

8. Prime with Frankford hand tool.

9. On one side of the press I have a powder dispenser, (RCBS Chargemaster Supreme), primed brass, bullets, and a powder funnel. Drop one charge, put it in brass using the funnel, seat bullet, and drop it in a bin on the other side of the press. No trays are needed for this, no secondary scales, no check weights, etc. The dispenser is a scale and comes with weights for calibration. I like the only one powder charge at a time method, I don't charge a bunch of brass in a tray and risk missing one. I go Bin to Bin.

I have bought all the fancy measuring tools, but all you really need is a caliper. Make a dummy round without primer or powder and press it in a little at a time until it will chamber, feed and fit in your magazine -this is your max. COAL is good enough, once your die is set you will not be changing it back and forth anyway. A micro-adjustable seating die is nice if you will be loading many different bullets and want to keep track of each, but if it is only one, basic works.

My 6.5C load is 140ELD at the book's recommended COAL and it will shoot sub 1/2 MOA from my MPA competition rifle using range pick-up brass. Many bullets today are very jump tolerant and the benefit of dialing in the ideal jump may be small or non-existent, especially if you are using up a good match barrel to figure it out. I like a good jump because the throat changes with wear and if you have to be too close to get the results you want, the results may not stay as it changes.

I don't anneal and my brass usually fails from loose primer pockets, not split necks.

Well, I feel better.... I hope it is some food for thought, don't expect everyone to agree with me, but it is what I wish someone would have told me before I bought a bunch of the junk I have gathering dust now.

 

[kravi]

1. You're missing calipers and shell holder.
2. Go with a Derraco Bullet & Headspace Comparator kit instead of the Hornady.
3. The Inline Fab case ejector is kind of a luxury item and is not really needed.
4. Collet style bullet puller like the Hornady Cam-Lock work better than the inertia/hammer style but requires buying collets for various bullet diameters.
5. If you're going with Forster dies, get their stuck case remover instead of the RCBS. It's purpose designed for their dies.
6. Chronograph - you're not gonna know unless you have a way to measure, spend the money on a radar style chronograph.

Thanks. I've got calipers already, along with a Garmin Xero for a chronograph.

Totally forgot about the shell holders, doh! Got a recommendation?

Other notes taken, appreciate it!

Cheers!

 

[kravi]

if you have a wife and kids, you want to be efficient with your time. Buy two presses and have your Sizer in one and your seater die in the other. Grab a piece of brass and size it while your powder thrower is throwing the powder charge. Once it's sized and primed, your powder charge is ready. Next seat the bullet and put the cartridge back in the case. Grab your next piece and size it and then prime it and now your powder charge is ready once again. You get a little assembly line going so there's no waiting ever, and it's impossible to double charge or not charge a case this way.

That's actually great advice. I was planning on doing it in "phases". IE clean the brass on Monday, resize and decap it on Tuesday, etc, but for the cost of one more press, I can be a lot more efficient.

Do presses really matter? I mean, if I get a good deal on any single stage press (any half decent one), does it make much of a difference? IE should I prioritize getting a Rock Chucker, a whatever, or anything?

Cheers!

 

[kravi]

.../snip...
Well, I feel better.... I hope it is some food for thought, don't expect everyone to agree with me, but it is what I wish someone would have told me before I bought a bunch of the junk I have gathering dust now.

Thanks for the writeup, I actually found it very helpful and informative. Particularly that I could use "custom" dies instead of "match" dies and get the (more or less) same results. I'm not an F-class guy, I just need something "good enough" for PRS and NRL Hunter. As it is, the Hornady Match I've settled on for now is more accurate than I am...

Basically, I want to get something a bit better than that, and save some money long term.

 

[Jack_L]

I'd recommend factory ammo, at least for NRL Hunter.

 

[Evintos]

Thanks. I've got calipers already, along with a Garmin Xero for a chronograph.

Totally forgot about the shell holders, doh! Got a recommendation?

Other notes taken, appreciate it!

Cheers!

I don't think it matters since they're mostly universal (Hornady, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding). Some will have a tighter fit with the case versus others that have a little clearance to allow for variation in the case extractor groove. Every company has made (at one point in time) a shell holder that was slightly off and required a warranty exchange. Just make sure you get shell holders for presses because some companies make specific shell holders for things like priming tools which won't work.

 

[hewlett260]

Personally, I wouldn’t not clean brass after it’s been lubed/sized. A cheap vibratory tumbler and walnut or rice media, I think is worth the cost and time.

Are you skipping cleaning altogether?

I use Imperial sizing wax and wipe off with a micro fiber rag as the next one goes in. The inside of the necks get brushed out after trimming and chamfer debur

 

[kravi]

Getting a Forster Co-ax press will eliminate a lot of the things like quick insert bushings and case ejector from your list.

So from what I can see, the Forster Co-Ax (which looks great) is more expensive than the RCBS, case ejector system and bushings combined by a solid $80 or more. Does it matter that much?

 

[hewlett260]

So from what I can see, the Forster Co-Ax (which looks great) is more expensive than the RCBS, case ejector system and bushings combined by a solid $80 or more. Does it matter that much?

The Co-ax gives a lot of benefits over other presses. No shell holder required, die lock rings act as the quick change bushing, more leverage when sizing and between the jaws side to side and die front to back "play", everything self aligns better than a normal shell holder system. Run out is reduced for sizing and seating operations. Also the on press priming is pretty damn good.

The thing I noticed when I got mine and compared it to my old Redding Boss, and my Dad's RCBS is the Co-ax was way more stable. The RCBS tends to shake the bench during sizing especially on magnum cartridges. The Co-ax sizes magnum cartridges effortlessly. The more open lay out allows easier access for everything which I never thought about until I realized I was processing 100 pieces of brass in 20 minutes on the Co-ax vs an hour on my Redding or my Dad's RCBS.

 

[demarpaint]

if you have a wife and kids, you want to be efficient with your time. Buy two presses and have your Sizer in one and your seater die in the other. Grab a piece of brass and size it while your powder thrower is throwing the powder charge. Once it's sized and primed, your powder charge is ready. Next seat the bullet and put the cartridge back in the case. Grab your next piece and size it and then prime it and now your powder charge is ready once again. You get a little assembly line going so there's no waiting ever, and it's impossible to double charge or not charge a case this way.

That is what I did.

 

[Emerson0311]

Forget your PRS ambitions, it's not important at all in the scheme of things in life.

The cost is to high to the family, in time spent and money is wasted...especially if you go deep into the rabbit hole of shooting hobbies.

Nothing you could accomplish here is important, and noone cares about your shooting skills or accomplishments ...really.

What you do with an individual shooting hobbie should be very limited in expense and time.
Try have as many immediate family members as possible involved....which is likely not many, but you'll build relationships where it matters.

Spend your time where its most important.
Your wife and kids are your top priority, as they actually need you, and care at least to some extent...teenagers can be difficult.

You'll thank me a few yrs down the road.

This. Shoot Rimfire PRS stuff. A CZ457 in a basic chassis and $800 scope.

 

[kravi]

This. Shoot Rimfire PRS stuff. A CZ457 in a basic chassis and $800 scope.

Uhm. I came here for help with reloading, not with family advice and platitudes from anonymous people on the internet. Can we at least try to stay on topic?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Just shoot factory ammo. You can get norma 130 and 143 match for less than $25 a box and sell the brass to get it under $20 a box. Is your time worth anything? Even with a killer reloading setup it's still a time sink to do it correct. Can you outshoot 1/2 moa 10-15sd ammo from positional? When you can, then it's time to invest in reloading. The time savings ( 5-10 hours per match) from not having to reload is worth it.

I have multiple Dillion 750s, multiple super tricklers, henderson, amp ,ect.....and I still shoot about half my matches with factory ammo. It's such a time saver and the actual cost difference ( about .80-1.20 CPR reloaded with top components) is negligible.

IMO unless your time is completely worthless then you need to invest in automation and repeatability. That means high end equipment. $5k on the low end and closer To $10k to do it right and maximize quality/time. You will also need to buy components in bulk to keep prices down.

Lastly with NRL hunter I think any box 6.5cm qualifies so you can actually shoot under 380 power factor with 130#.... That fly flatter and faster with less recoil.

 

[FLIGHT762]

1. Go with a Derraco Bullet & Headspace Comparator kit instead of the Hornady.
2. Collet style bullet puller like the Hornady Cam-Lock work better than the inertia/hammer style but requires buying collets for various bullet diameters.
3. Chronograph - you're not gonna know unless you have a way to measure, spend the money on a radar style chronograph.

^^^^THIS ^^^^

I never understood the appeal for the Hornady die bushings. I was curious and timed the effort for removing a die from the press. It took less than 10 seconds to do it. Those bushings seem to me to be a waste of money.

The real time saver for me is the Giraud case trimmer for large volume case trimming.

The one thing that Hornady makes as an accessory is their die lock rings. Well worth the money to upgrade to their rings compared to most other die rings.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yup. Most Hornady products suck but their die lock rings are among the best. I don't understand why so many companies uses lock rings with a set screw that drives right into the die threads. There is a pile of Wilson, Redding and Forester die rings in one of my drawers.. they all get replaced by Hornady. 6 for like $15 or something.

 

[Devildog]

Don’t get into reloading because you think you are going to save money. Ain’t going to happen.
I reload because I enjoy it and I like the challenge of making ammo that shoots well in my rifles.
I started with a basic RCBS kit like this one https://www.natchezss.com/rc-supreme-master-reloading-kit-rc9366 , upgrade as you go along. It can be a deep rabbit hole, I don’t even want to think how much I’ve spent on upgrades, additional presses, exc. Just my 2 cents

 

[Emerson0311]

Uhm. I came here for help with reloading, not with family advice and platitudes from anonymous people on the internet. Can we at least try to stay on topic?

Never mind. You know best. Us idiots farther down the same road learned zero on the journey. Have fun.

 

[R_A_W]

but for the cost of one more press, I can be a lot more efficient.

Do presses really matter? I mean, if I get a good deal on any single stage press (any half decent one), does it make much of a difference?

I’d take one Co-ax or one Nexus over two Rock Chuckers any day of the week.

The components you use (brass, bullets), along with your ability to set up dies and lube cases consistently are going to have a much greater impact on the quality of your ammunition than what press you (correctly) use.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Thanks for the writeup, I actually found it very helpful and informative. Particularly that I could use "custom" dies instead of "match" dies and get the (more or less) same results. I'm not an F-class guy, I just need something "good enough" for PRS and NRL Hunter. As it is, the Hornady Match I've settled on for now is more accurate than I am...

Basically, I want to get something a bit better than that, and save some money long term.

Glad you found some value in it. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Never mind. You know best. Us idiots farther down the same road learned zero on the journey. Have fun.

He came in asking for advice to shoot NRL and PRS and you pointed him to rimfire? That's not the same road... it's not even in the same state.

 

[JustSendit]

I use Imperial sizing wax and wipe off with a micro fiber rag as the next one goes in. The inside of the necks get brushed out after trimming and chamfer debur

Cool that makes sense to me, i use the same process when im working with a small number of stuff to reload. Typically my batches are 3-500, so I tend to be a little more industrial and one shot my brass then for efficiency I tumble for about an hour. Just enough to get the lube off.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Item Type	Item Name	Notes
Single Stage Press	RCBS 9356 Rock Chucker	Don't care - if there is something better, please advise The Rock Chucker is widely regarded as one of the best single stage presses. Not a bad choice at all.
Case Ejector System	InLine Fabrication	Seemed like it was worth the $60. Thoughts? As someone else said, not needed.
Die Bushings	Hornady Lock N Load Die Bushings	allow hot swapping between calibers if I ever go to 6 Dasher or whatever for PRS Or... instead of the Rock Chucker, go with a Redding T7 or the Lyman turreted press. I've got the T7 and used it for many years. It's as "fire and forget" as you can get and you can get three calibers onto one turret (or more if you use an arbor press for seating). The only reason I moved away from it is that I had 3 turrets and swapping between them was a bit of a pain - not horrid, just a bit.,.
Headspace Gauge Kit	Hornady HK66
Comparator Body	Hornady Lock-N-Load
Sizing / Seating Die Set	Forster Ultra Die Set	Read a gazillion thoughts on this. Right now I'm just under the "good enough and good price". Thoughts?
Bullet Puller	Lyman	If you don't already have one, look at: https://grip-n-pull.com/
Powder Dispenser	Hornady Auto Charge Pro	I saw a few videos showing that this, on medium, was pretty precise and excellent vs all others at similar price point This is one area where I recommend you spend up. I'll get out of the way that I am not a fan of most Hornady products. That said, if you end up going any deeper than the basics in precision loading, you will end up ditching this in the not-so-distant future. For a scale, the "standard" in precision the A&D Fx120i. You can get one from one of the reloading outfits for under $500. Add in a simple hand trickler and a manual powder throw and you'll be able to get charge weights consistent to the second decimal (well... almost, to .02 gr). Then, when you want to speed things up a bit, get the latest model of Autotrickler. Of all the things I did on my reloading journey, not spending up for the scale at the beginning was the biggest mistake. I spent more on all the scales I tried before getting the A&D/Autotrickler, than I did on the A&D/Autotrickler itself.
Case Lube	Hornady One Shot (10oz)	Not a fan. See below.
Stuck Case Remover	RCBS	I have one, primarily for when I was using One Shot. Haven't needed it since.
Scale	Thinkscale	Backup scale in addition to powder dispenser No need for a backup scale - see above - get the A&D and be happy knowing you've got a highly accurate, fast-settling scale. If you don't want to spring for the Autotrickler, you can add that later. I did this. As soon as I did so, I realized how stupid I'd been by delaying.
Checkweight Set	Lyman
Case Primer	Frankford Arsenal Hand Primer
Brass Cleaner	Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler	Honestly, if I can find anything used that does dry tumbling, I'd take it.
Universal Loading Block	Hornady Universal Loading Block	Not sold on this, but need something to hold my cases throughout the process. Think multiples.
Annealer	Burstfire 2 in 1	Ok, we all love AMP, but this is cheap as crap and comes with options for case prep as well built in.
Feed Ramp for Annealer	Short Case Feed Ramp
Case Prep - Trim, Chamfer, Debur	Burstfire Case Prep Tool	That will work fine, but you'll likely end up putting the chamber/deburring fittings into a drill.
Funnels	Lyman Brass Smith Pro Funnel	Almost went with the Are 419, but this was almost the same and much cheaper.

 

[hewlett260]

Cool that makes sense to me, i use the same process when im working with a small number of stuff to reload. Typically my batches are 3-500, so I tend to be a little more industrial and one shot my brass then for efficiency I tumble for about an hour. Just enough to get the lube off.

I run batches of 100 per caliber throughout the week to relax before bed. Full case prep with size/ trim debur and prime takes about an hour per hundred.

 

[kravi]

Quote == @Rocketmandb :
This is one area where I recommend you spend up. I'll get out of the way that I am not a fan of most Hornady products. That said, if you end up going any deeper than the basics in precision loading, you will end up ditching this in the not-so-distant future. For a scale, the "standard" in precision the A&D Fx120i. You can get one from one of the reloading outfits for under $500. Add in a simple hand trickler and a manual powder throw and you'll be able to get charge weights consistent to the second decimal (well... almost, to .02 gr).
Then, when you want to speed things up a bit, get the latest model of Autotrickler. Of all the things I did on my reloading journey, not spending up for the scale at the beginning was the biggest mistake. I spent more on all the scales I tried before getting the A&D/Autotrickler, than I did on the A&D/Autotrickler itself.

(sorry, the quote function wasn't working on embedded comments on my quote )

I hear ya, but I saw several "tests" of different automated "budget" tricklers, and the Hornady (I have no particular loyalty to any company anywhere - I like to judge product by product) seemed to have the best performance across the board for "budget" automated tricklers. The scale and the number of times it went over weight. The scale itself seems to be very accurate, and I already have calibration dies (an OHAUS set) from my fletching addiction (hey, besides 2-gun, USPSA, and now PRS/NRL, I'm also a still hunter with a longbow).

While some day, I'd love to get the super fancy autotrickler and, while I'm at it, the AMP v2 system, until then I'm trying to get by with "good enough" to have better SDs than my boxed ammo. If the scale is accurate, then the powder should be consistent (even if you have a fair number of do-overs), right?

Or could I save a ton by getting a good scale and going manual trickler like you suggested? I don't want to slow myself down too much. Tempus does, in fact, fugit.

Cheers!

 

[Rocketmandb]

If the scale is accurate, then the powder should be consistent (even if you have a fair number of do-overs), right?

The budget scales and auto throwers will measure to =/- .1gr accuracy (or a .2gr spread - actually slightly higher), while the Fx120i goes to +/-.02gr. My take on reloading is to control the things you can control to the maximum extent to which you can control them. The easiest thing to control is charge weight. It likely only means single-digit FPS differences in spread, but as you try for low-single-digit SDs, that makes a difference.

When I use smaller kernel powders, I measure exactly to the 10th of a grain - example: for my 6 BRA, I charge at 30.60 grains - not 30.58 and not 30.62. For larger powders, where the kernels weigh more than .02gr each, I throw to -0/+.02 - example: for my 300 PRC, I charge to 75.0 or 75.2 gr.

Or could I save a ton by getting a good scale and going manual trickler like you suggested? I don't want to slow myself down too much. Tempus does, in fact, fugit.

The lower-end scales are basically strain-gauge-based and don't get the same level of accuracy. Higher-end scales of that type are capable of getting high accuracy, but they take longer to settle, which, in addition to taking up time, also make them less applicable to auto trickling powder.

There are a number of good threads on this site that go into the benefits. I can't find the one I was looking for, but here is one:

Does A&D 120i scale make a big difference?

For those who upgraded to this scale after using a +/-1 0.1 grain scale, did you see noticeable improvements in your ES & SD after upgrading? If you had the "before" and "after" numbers, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Old Man with Gun]

The budget scales and auto throwers will measure to =/- .1gr accuracy (or a .2gr spread - actually slightly higher), while the Fx120i goes to +/-.02gr. My take on reloading is to control the things you can control to the maximum extent to which you can control them. The easiest thing to control is charge weight. It likely only means single-digit FPS differences in spread, but as you try for low-single-digit SDs, that makes a difference.

When I use smaller kernel powders, I measure exactly to the 10th of a grain - example: for my 6 BRA, I charge at 30.60 grains - not 30.58 and not 30.62. For larger powders, where the kernels weigh more than .02gr each, I throw to -0/+.02 - example: for my 300 PRC, I charge to 75.0 or 75.2 gr.


The lower-end scales are basically strain-gauge-based and don't get the same level of accuracy. Higher-end scales of that type are capable of getting high accuracy, but they take longer to settle, which, in addition to taking up time, also make them less applicable to auto trickling powder.

There are a number of good threads on this site that go into the benefits. I can't find the one I was looking for, but here is one:

Does A&D 120i scale make a big difference?

For those who upgraded to this scale after using a +/-1 0.1 grain scale, did you see noticeable improvements in your ES & SD after upgrading? If you had the "before" and "after" numbers, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

www.snipershide.com

I've used those cheaper scales and am currently using a RCBS Charge master Supreme. I had no problem getting single digit SD with them. I understand the argument, but does it make a real world difference for PRS shooters?
Most powders will varry more from how long they sits in a hot chamber before firing than .02 grains.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I've used those cheaper scales and am currently using a RCBS Charge master Supreme. I had no problem getting single digit SD with them. I understand the argument, but does it make a real world difference for PRS shooters?
Most powders will varry more from how long they sits in a hot chamber before firing than .02 grains.

True - most PRS shooters don't care about a few FPS difference in SDs. I will say that the argument about variances introduced by heat in the chamber actually bolsters the reason to be more attentive to reducing other variances. Error upon error just makes a larger error.

 

[mkollman74]

Forget your PRS ambitions, it's not important at all in the scheme of things in life.

The cost is to high to the family, in time spent and money is wasted...especially if you go deep into the rabbit hole of shooting hobbies.

Nothing you could accomplish here is important, and noone cares about your shooting skills or accomplishments ...really.

What you do with an individual shooting hobbie should be very limited in expense and time.
Try have as many immediate family members as possible involved....which is likely not many, but you'll build relationships where it matters.

Spend your time where its most important.
Your wife and kids are your top priority, as they actually need you, and care at least to some extent...teenagers can be difficult.

You'll thank me a few yrs down the road.

This is pretty good advice. I have no regrets. I stopped shooting competitively years ago so I could watch my kids grow up. I was happy to save the money, but the time I repurposed towards making every memory I could with my wife and girls, well that has been beyond priceless...

 

[Emerson0311]

He came in asking for advice to shoot NRL and PRS and you pointed him to rimfire? That's not the same road... it's not even in the same state.

He sounds like he has no clue how incredibly expensive in time and $$$ the leap he is contemplating really is. Not even a reloader yet? But again, what do I know??

 

[jpjulian]

If you haven't already discovered, guys here are really good at spending other guys money. A Rockchucker is a good press. You can spend more but not necessarily buy better. Don't bother with a case eject thingy. L-N-L bushings to me are a solution to a nonexistent problem. An annealer may give you longer brass life, but really, it's not needed just starting out. Burstfire annealers don't trim so you'll need a trimmer. I haven't cleaned a primer pocket or deburred a flash hole in decades. The backup scale isn't needed either if you have check weights and use them often. Don't overthink things. Basic equipment and tools have loaded very good ammo for an awful long time. Upgrade as you go as your budget and family considerations allow.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I really like the L-N-L bushings, but I reload a lot of different calibers on a single stage.

With the bushings I can drop in a seating die and it will be exactly how I had it setup last time. When I was screwing in dies I didn't get as repeatable results and would end up making minor adjustments. Not required for sure, but I really like them.