Gew 98 custom? What do I have?

[MTS308]

Ok so I was in a local gunshop last weekend and picked up what I think is a gewehr 98 that has been custom built at some point. It is in a walnut stock with a heavy barrel supposedly chambered in 243 Winchester.
I am having several problems with this rifle. First a live round is extremely hard to chamber and the bolt is very hard to close and open. I’m fairly certain some of the problem is a rough bolt face. Second whoever drilled and tapped the rear base messed it up and it is not level to the front base but I think it can be fixed. Third the tip of the firing pin is bent a little but it still comes out of the bolt face. Not sure how much of a problem that will be.
The barrel is stamped a stahl & j whitfill. I can’t find anything out about the whitfill name but the a stahl could possibly be Archie Stahl from bowling green Kentucky. From what I’ve read he passed away in the early 2000s. Any help with figuring out what I have is greatly appreciated.

 

[roostercogburn98]

More pics of the top and breech side of action if possible good sir.

 

[MTS308]

 

[MTS308]

 

[roostercogburn98]

Looks to be a 1918 DWM gun

 

[MTS308]

Looks to be a 1918 DWM gun

Worth possibly rebarreling ? The bolt face is a lot rougher than I thought when I picked it up. And the bolt lugs are only making 10-25% contact with the action so they need to be lapped.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Interesting stock…

You sure .243? Chamber cast might be in order. Could be one of those oddball inter-wr Euro calibers.

The rest is fixable.

Nice rifle!

Sirhr

 

[MTS308]

It will chamber a cartridge but it’s tight. I took a round and painted it with a black marker and chambered it , worked the bolt up and down and ejected. The only contact on the case or bullet was on the case head and the shoulder of the cartridge. No marks on the body, neck and bullet.

 

[roostercogburn98]

243 should headspace of the mouth. Did you mark the mouf up and see if it is making contact?

Not sure why I said mouf. Clearly not right here, sorry to type while I am doing other things.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Worth possibly rebarreling ? The bolt face is a lot rougher than I thought when I picked it up. And the bolt lugs are only making 10-25% contact with the action so they need to be lapped.

10-25% contact for a 104 or so year old gun is probably what is started life like?? Maybe just super dirty

 

[MTS308]

No contact on the case mouth

 

[roostercogburn98]

I adjusted my post, was trying to do more than one thing at a time. Sorry to mislead you

 

[Son of Dorn]

Interesting stock…

You sure .243? Chamber cast might be in order. Could be one of those oddball inter-wr Euro calibers.

The rest is fixable.

Nice rifle!

Sirhr

I see a "243 W." marking on the barrel, if that's the calibre marking?

Wonder if it couldn't be a goof and it's actually in .243 Win Improved/Ackley...

 

[MTS308]

I see a "243 W." marking on the barrel, if that's the calibre marking?

Wonder if it couldn't be a goof and it's actually in .243 Win Improved/Ackley...

Could be. The chamber is so tight I can chamber a round and open and close the bolt 5 times and it is rubbing brass off the case head excessively. I don’t know anything about the ackley improved so I’m not sure. I feel firing a case in it like the rifle sits now is not a good idea. Lol

 

[Son of Dorn]

Could be. The chamber is so tight I can chamber a round and open and close the bolt 5 times and it is rubbing brass off the case head excessively. I don’t know anything about the ackley improved so I’m not sure. I feel firing a case in it like the rifle sits now is not a good idea. Lol

.243 Ackley Improved on the left, .243 Win on the right (courtesy of Wikipedia):

I don't know anything about them either, actually. But it was a thought, and one I'm not so sure of now. My vote is for chamber cast and measure across the bore too. The "243 W" on the barrel looks like it COULD be the calibre but I'm not entirely convinced.

 

[MTS308]

Yea after looking at that picture I highly doubt it is a ackley chamber. The rifle has a parkerized finish and I’m wondering if it had the finish applied some time after the original barrel installation was done. I know the parkerizing is inside the action and on the bolt and is making the bolt drag. Kinda thinking maybe the parkerizing is on the bolt face, bolt lugs and lug abutments and causing the headspace issue.

 

[Supersubes]

Please dont lap the shit out of the lugs.

 

[pmclaine]

Lots of war rifles were built over seas for soldiers on occupation duty by skilled german gunsmiths.....

Any chance it could be an overseas build stahl and whitfill could be German. Full picture of the rifle, whats the front of the stock look like.

 

[MTS308]

Please dont lap the shit out of the lugs.

Not planning on lapping unless I have it rebarreled but I’m hoping I won’t have to.

 

[MTS308]

Front of the stock is has a target/beaver tail shape to it. I’ll try to post a full picture.

 

[MTS308]

The stock has some scallop like cuts starting just in front of the bolt handle cutout. Measuring the width starting at the beginning of the scallop towards the end of the barrel the stock tapers from 2.4 inches to 2.25 inches wide using my calipers to measure.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I have never seen a gunsmith “mis-mark” a barrel. If it says .243 W, then you can be pretty sure that’s .243 Win it is.

Try cleaning everything with some scotch brite and oil. The Clean really well to get any grit off and lubricate with light gun oil.

Get a scope in chamber if you can (you can get one for android or iPhone cheap). But a bit of rust in a chamber can cause a lot of havoc! A fun fact… rust is 9x thicker than the metal it replaces. So a .001” deep rust pit raises a rust “dome” of .009”. That will jam things up every time.

Do a chamber cast if in doubt or take to a gunsmith. See rooster’s Winchester 54 thread for some great chamber cast pix.

Sirhr

 

[pmclaine]

Good looking rifle.

The park looks fresh.

If the chamber and firing pathways are parked that is typical for military work done on Garands.

It will wear with use. I wouldn't polish it, just sit and watch TV while working the well oiled bolt, run a piece of brass while doing it.

What's the butt pad manufacturer?

Just looking for anything to see if it was built overseas. Any sort of proof marks on it other than what would be expected from when it was in its military Trim?

 

[MTS308]

The recoil pad is a red pachmayr. The only marks or stamps I can find that look out of place are under the serial number just above Tye stock line and the other is on top of the bolt handle. The one under the serial number looks like a lower case cursive d. the one on the bolt handle I can’t remember. I’ll look when I get a chance.

 

[rgg_7]

Your stock was manufactured by "Fajen" and is their "varmint" profile. Company out of Missouri and has been defunct for many years. mostly likely an USA assembled rifle seeing the details you posted.

Good suggestions on inspecting and casting the chamber. If that's not possible cycle brass until it feels "right" - tight chamber is a good thing. Your caliber is most likely 243 Win.

 

[MTS308]

I suspect the rifle just has a really tight chamber. A live round is hard to chamber but the rifle will cycle the blue a zoom snap caps fine. Bolt handle still closes hard but not as bad. I measured the lengths of the live rounds and the snap caps using a hornady case comparator on my calipers and the snap caps are .003 shorter than the live rounds. Kinda wondering if I should try to take some factory I fired brass and push the shoulder back shorter than the snap cap and see if it will chamber any better.

 

[nksmfamjp]

243 should headspace of the mouth. Did you mark the mouf up and see if it is making contact?

Not sure why I said mouf. Clearly not right here, sorry to type while I am doing other things.

Are you sure about that? Looking at the SAAMI print will clarify that for you.

 

[tomme boy]

243 should headspace of the mouth.

Darwin award right here

 

[nksmfamjp]

Cool rifle. I’m thinking it was barreled in Europe somewhere. It has extra markings on the barrel. I’m guessing proof marks. We dont and never have had proof houses in the USA.

I think you need to clean the chamber well and cast it with cerrosafe or something….maybe try a GO gage too.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Are you sure about that? Looking at the SAAMI print will clarify that for you.

I corrected my post bi was working in another gun and replying as I typed. My bad

 

[MTS308]

Just out curiosity if I wanted to strip the parkerizing and cold blue the barreled action. What’s the best way to strip the parkerizing besides sand/bead blasting?

 

[1588]

The cartridge should headspace off the datum line. It just might be a tight chamber. I would clean the chamber thoroughly and not force the bolt closed on a loaded cartridge. If the rifle sat for years, the slightest bit of crud build up or corrosion can add up to a few thousandths of an inch. Personally, I would not use any power driven tools for clean up. I've used JB Bore Paste with success.

If you have any shooting buddies with a .308 Winchester Go Gauge, that should fit a .243 Winchester chamber and would be the best way to verify safe headspace. You should not feel any resistance when closing the bolt on a Go Gauge.

If you insert a .243 Winchester cartridge into the muzzle, will the projectile enter the muzzle to the bullet ogive?

 

[MTS308]

I’m pretty sure it’s 243 Winchester. I sized 2 pieces of Winchester unprimed factory brass last night as short as my die would let me. Put me pushing the shoulder back .002-.003 what it was straight from the bag. Those 2 case chambered smooth with no effort to close or open the bolt. I checked the muzzle end with a small hole micrometer set I have and got .240 on the lands. Can’t really check the groove depth with it but I feel safe to assume 243 caliber.

 

[Gary/CO]

Remove the extractor and then check it with a .243 go-gauge. If it won't close, then I'd chamber cast it.

If it is .243, then the chamber may need some light polishing.

You could also slug the bore with pure lead to confirm the diameter.

 

[larryh128]

The difference in height of the bases is normal in a Mauser. The rear base is higher. Looks like a stock military action that has had the bolt forged (bent) not cut and welded. A common thing years ago but tends to make the bolt handle a bit short. When you chamber a round are you loading into the chamber or feeding from the magazine? Mausers need to be fed from the magazine with authority. If in doubt about proofing it with a round, put it in a 1 piece rest, strap it down and fire it with a cord. Every one that I've ever done was proofed this way to ensure I didn't miss an action flaw.

 

[Astahl]

You are correct. The A STAHL is for Archie Stahl of Bowling Green, Kentucky. I am his grandson and recognize that stamp anywhere. Not sure who J Whithill is, unfamiliar with that person. As previously recommended, give it a good cleaning and the expense of a chamber cast might not be a bad idea given what unknowns this other gunsmith might have done to it.