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Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents
- Thread starter Animal357
- Start date
It appears that the ATF considers bundling an approved 80% lower with the parts to finish it constitutes a firearm.
It is definitely riding a fine line. An 80% lower by itself would be fine.
It’s not like those parts can’t easily be found elsewhere
I have never seen the definition of an unfinished lower to include "as long as you don't sell it with the parts to finish it"
True, but I can kind of (although not the same) equate it to having a m16 bcg but not the other parts for a full auto. M16 bcg by itself is fine, having all the other parts makes it illegal.
I know this is not the same thing.
Hi,
Just keep kicking the dog and then wonder why it finally bites you.......
When people stop trying to skirt, swerve and pick apart the lines then you will see this stuff stop.
When people stop trying to think they are going to out smart and circumvent the ATF (As wrong as some of their policies may be) you will see this stuff stop.
There is a reason that short barreled AR uppers are kept in different locations from ANY lower until your SBR stamp is approved.
Sincerely,
Theis
Just keep kicking the dog and then wonder why it finally bites you.......
When people stop trying to skirt, swerve and pick apart the lines then you will see this stuff stop.
When people stop trying to think they are going to out smart and circumvent the ATF (As wrong as some of their policies may be) you will see this stuff stop.
There is a reason that short barreled AR uppers are kept in different locations from ANY lower until your SBR stamp is approved.
Sincerely,
Theis
The kit comes with EVERYTHING necessary to build a pisol.
- PF-Series™ 80% Pistol Frame Kit
- 9mm Complete Slide Assembly
- Stainless Steel Slide w/ Black Nitride Coating
- Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Black Nitride Coating
- P80® Slide Parts Kit
- P80® Pistol Parts Kit w/ Trigger
- 15 or 17 round Magazine (10 round mags are included for states with restrictions)
- Black Carrying Case
They would probably have been golden if they had left out the barrel...
Fuck the ATF and their constant 'reinterpretation' of the law, as if that's their job.
All of which are legally attainable by anyone. It's not a firearm, the fact that they're facilitating the end users ability to produce a firearm is irrelevant since it doesn't actually become a firearm till you do the work.
This agency needs to go away.
Hi,
Absolutely true. That could be said for pretty much any LEO and .Gov entity.
Sincerely,
Theis
Of all those parts, only one is legally considered a firearm. And in this case, it appears that part doesn't meet the threshold of firearm.
Disagree. There are some agencies who do it right, enforce what's written. For whatever reason the ATF seems to think they're part of the judicial branch.
Don't post pictures of it, dude...
how is it riding a fine line?
an 80% is not a firearms.....its not different that shipping a block of wood with a bunch of gun parts.....
this is just more ATF harassment and them not abiding by their own rules.
Unless they can make a firearm out of the provided parts this is a ruse.
What I really see is a lengthy court battle intended to cost this crew more
coin than they have.
Meant to discouraging any others from same practice.
R
What I really see is a lengthy court battle intended to cost this crew more
coin than they have.
Meant to discouraging any others from same practice.
R
QuietBore changed its policy. You now need an approved form 1 before you can even order your trap.
Man, those were the days. Order your stuff, follow the law, get your form 1... then build it. Too many people circumvented this process and of course... ATF stepped in.
Maybe I'm just ignorant as I never looked into purchasing a %80. Isn't the frame and everything mostly finished but a jig is needed for completion?
If that is the case I really don't see that as the same as a block of wood.
i am under no obligation to live by their thoughts of what the law should be.......i am only obligated to live by what the law actually says.
and the law (and the ATF themselves) says 80% lowers are not a firearm.....therefore, i can ship a lower with as many gun parts as i want......thats not "skirting the law"....thats abiding by it.
now if the ATF does not agree with that, they need to have the laws changed.....they dont just get to arbitrarily decide one day that they can change it themselves.
My uncle could be my aunt if he is modified a bit.
Check Buffalo winters post above and rethink.
R
legally speaking....its the same as a block of wood.
the amount of tools and jigs they include with it doesnt change its legal standing.
did you read what i wrote?......LEGALLY speaking....they are the same thing.
perhaps you should refrain from discussions you dont understand.....i can only explain it to you, i cant understand it for you.
Please tell us which one of those is a firearm.
Legally, yes I agree with you.
However, I know I'm going to get told to fuck off and every other word in the book for this post but should we allow those who cannot legally obtain a firearm the means to manufacture one for themselves?
whats stopping them from buying a block of aluminum and a milling machine and making one themselves?
hell, i can, and have, made a firearm from $20 worth of black pipe i bought at Home depot.
whats stopping them from buying a black market gun from someone on the street?
criminals dont seem to have a hard time finding guns as it is.
also, should we start curtailing the rights of law abiding citizens because someone may abuse it?......if thats the case, whats the argument against universal gun licenses, 10 round mags, bullet button mandates, no semi autos, ect?
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So we should impede the rights of the law abiding folks because criminals might break the law?
R
Agree 100% I don't see how they did anything wrong either. It is a pile of gun parts not a firearm. It is up to you to make it a firearm, which is also legal to manufacture your own firearms, so therefore fuck the ATF.
So let's punish the law abiding "just in case" somebody decides to break the law?
You're a Biden voter aren't you?
I removed my post, showing some pipes and a block of wood, asking if this is now a gun. I just don't need the hassle of arguing with anyone. As for the ATF Rusty Shackleford/Dale Gribble meme, the ATF knows who I am. They know I have guns. It's a a matter of public record. I have a Concealed Carry Permit, an FFL, and several NFA registered items. My fingerprints and DNA are in the system from the Army. I'm pretty sure the ATF realizes I know how the system works and don't have a problem working within it.
Challenge for the posters in this thread.
Find me an instance where a "ghost gun" was used to wound or kill a victim.
Wonder why they aren't raiding parts of Chicago every week?
R
Find me an instance where a "ghost gun" was used to wound or kill a victim.
Wonder why they aren't raiding parts of Chicago every week?
R
Had a cop shot with one in Denver, was actually shocked they didn't make a thing of it because of the felon and 'ghost gun'
Standby.
DAs Office Shoot Letter
Standby.
DAs Office Shoot Letter
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Don't be too hard on him. Depending on what state you voted in, you could actually be 2/5ths of a Biden voter.
Authorities Warn More Criminals are Using 'Ghost Guns' to Get Around Tough Gun Laws
Since the gun is put together from separate parts and doesn't have a serial number, it's almost impossible for law enforcement to track
time.com
It is time though so not the greatest resource.
Your average criminal/felon who cannot legally buy a gun can usually obtain one much cheaper and easier on the street than bothering with all of the hassle and trouble to buy a kit and use tools to build one. Most are not inclined to work much themselves, especially when the easy button is to just flash some cash for a heater.
I understand that point of view as the founders explicitly wanted arms in the hands of all citizens. I am not sure that not having some sort of check to try and stop criminals from obtaining guns is a great idea.
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