Ghost-Gun Company Raided by Federal Agents

[Rthur]

Authorities Warn More Criminals are Using 'Ghost Guns' to Get Around Tough Gun Laws

Since the gun is put together from separate parts and doesn't have a serial number, it's almost impossible for law enforcement to track

time.com

It is time though so not the greatest resource.

You'll have to do better than "authorities warn".
Show me an article where my criteria happened.

R

 

[...]

I understand that point of view as the founders explicitly wanted arms in the hands of all citizens. I am not sure that not having some sort of check to try and stop criminals from obtaining guns is a great idea.

but we have already established that they dont have any trouble getting them....so who is this really helping?

also, the constitution supersedes "what we think is a good idea"

 

[LawnMM]

You'll have to do better than "authorities warn".
Show me an article where my criteria happened.

R

I edited my post above, details of the firearm are in the shoot letter as a photo caption of the bad guy from the body cam.

 

[Romeo458]

I'm seeing this sentiment a lot in the "2A" community

 

[AngryKoala]

but we have already established that they dont have any trouble getting them....so who is this really helping?

also, the constitution supersedes "what we think is a good idea"

I agree as the constitution is the law. The problem is we don't know. We know that some criminals have guns. If we were to abolish background checks, would we see an increase in crime?

 

[Animal357]

So legal part + legal parts = illegal??

 

[...]

I agree as the constitution is the law. The problem is we don't know. We know that some criminals have guns. If we were to abolish background checks, would we see an increase in crime?

do you really think people arent committing crimes because they dont have a gun?

"ah man i was going to rob that guy.....but all i have is a knife/bat/ pipe.....guess i cant do it"

also, what do you think is more likely.....that homeboy is going to spend $600 and learn amateur gunsmithing and spend hours building a gun?......or spend $200 and buy a gun from his drug dealer?

 

[Rthur]

I edited my post above, details of the firearm are in the shoot letter as a photo caption of the bad guy from the body cam.

Verified.
One example so far.
Did it cause anyone to be more dead or wounded than a legal weapon?

R

 

[lash]

I agree as the constitution is the law. The problem is we don't know. We know that some criminals have guns. If we were to abolish background checks, would we see an increase in crime?

What we do know is that an increase in gun laws and heavier restrictions on gun ownership do in fact account for increases in violent crime. It would seem then that the answer to your question is hinted at, if not provided for you already, by existing history and statistics.

ETA: by the way, your screen name seems to indicate that you are from Australia.

 

[LawnMM]

what do you think is more likely.....that homeboy is going to spend $600 and learn amateur gunsmithing and spend hours building a gun?......or spend $200 and buy a gun from his drug dealer?

 

[AngryKoala]

do you really think people arent committing crimes because they dont have a gun?

"ah man i was going to rob that guy.....but all i have is a knife/bat/ pipe.....guess i cant do it"

also, what do you think is more likely.....that homeboy is going to spend $600 and learn amateur gunsmithing and spend hours building a gun?......or spend $200 and buy a gun from his drug dealer?

Please answer the question. If we abolish background checks, would we see an increase in gun crime?

I 100% agree with you. A criminal has other means to obtain a gun other than purchasing a 80% kit.

 

[AngryKoala]

What we do know is that an increase in gun laws and heavier restrictions on gun ownership do in fact account for increases in violent crime. It would seem then that the answer to your question is hinted at, if not provided for you already, by existing history and statistics.

ETA: by the way, your screen name seems to indicate that you are from Australia.

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

 

[LawnMM]

Verified.
One example so far.
Did it cause anyone to be more dead or wounded than a legal weapon?

R

Nope, just saying, it does happen. It's likely not the only time. Do I think that matters or changes anything as far as P80 is concerned? Nope.

Not their responsibility to ensure their products are used legally. No different than GLOCK who ACTUALLY makes firearms used in crimes.

 

[Rthur]

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

Why aren't those guns a problem where they are imported from?

R

 

[...]

Please answer the question. If we abolish background checks, would we see an increase in gun crime?

well im not a fucking fortune teller..so i really cant say.....but im inclined to say "no".

what i do know is that historically, we have had less gun restrictions, and lower crime rates.

i really dont feel that gun laws impact crime levels at all.....i feel socio-econimic policies impact crime FAR more than gun laws do.

 

[MtnCreek]

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

Are you saying these criminals aren't obeying the strict gun laws in Chicago?

 

[lash]

Legally, yes I agree with you.

However, I know I'm going to get told to fuck off and every other word in the book for this post but should we allow those who cannot legally obtain a firearm the means to manufacture one for themselves?

What we do know is that an increase in gun laws and heavier restrictions on gun ownership do in fact account for increases in violent crime. It would seem then that the answer to your question is hinted at, if not provided for you already, by existing history and statistics.

ETA: by the way, your screen name seems to indicate that you are from Australia.

Please answer the question. If we abolish background checks, would we see an increase in gun crime?

I 100% agree with you. A criminal has other means to obtain a gun other than purchasing a 80% kit.

I already answered your question above. Ignore it if you will.

Btw, are you Australian as your name seems to indicate?

 

[Rthur]

Please answer the question. If we abolish background checks, would we see an increase in gun crime?

I 100% agree with you. A criminal has other means to obtain a gun other than purchasing a 80% kit.

We abolished guns at school, has that lead to less school shootings?

R

 

[...]

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

most of the guns are purchased out side of chicago....because there are no gun store IN chicago......

also, just because they are purchased, doesnt mean they were obtained legally.....most of them are stolen from people who legally purchased them.

 

[lash]

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

That’s your answer though. Don’t change the question and make it a moving argument. And no, it’s not just about Chicago, it’s been shown to be true in most every state and city in this country. The unfortunate fact that gets completely ignored by every anti gun nut, such as yourself, is that gun laws do not stop criminals from obtaining and using guns to commit crimes.

 

[AngryKoala]

well im not a fucking fortune teller..so i really cant say.....but im inclined to say "no".

what i do know is that historically, we have had less gun restrictions, and lower crime rates.

i really dont feel that gun laws impact crime levels at all.....i feel socio-econimic policies impact crime FAR more than gun laws do.

Crime is higher geographically in the lower economic tier which seems to correlate with democratic leadership which also correlates with stricter gun laws (surprise surprise).

If those laws were instituted nationally so that individuals couldn't obtain the guns in a more gun lenient area would we see less gun crime? I think not but is there any evidence to support it?

 

[AngryKoala]

Are you saying these criminals aren't obeying the strict gun laws in Chicago?

I think it is well established criminals do not obey laws. I am asking something a little different.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Hi,

Just keep kicking the dog and then wonder why it finally bites you.......

When people stop trying to skirt, swerve and pick apart the lines then you will see this stuff stop.

When people stop trying to think they are going to out smart and circumvent the ATF (As wrong as some of their policies may be) you will see this stuff stop.

There is a reason that short barreled AR uppers are kept in different locations from ANY lower until your SBR stamp is approved.

Sincerely,
Theis

You're really blaming the people? Were at fault here? Bullshit, It's in some of our DNA not to be submissive cuckolds to masters.

Law abiding gun owners following the GOV guys bullshit lines and they are overreaching. So the line isnt really the line we have to stay 10 feet from the line? Thats the theoretical line? And if we dare to get close to their new line we're the bad guys? We're at fault? And they keep moving the line. They allow us to do this or that. GTFO. That's not how it's supposed to work.

If it wasnt a constant Tug of War for our constitutional rights then you would see this shit stop.

 

[MtnCreek]

Crime is higher geographically in the lower economic tier which seems to correlate with democratic leadership which also correlates with stricter gun laws (surprise surprise).

If those laws were instituted nationally so that individuals couldn't obtain the guns in a more gun lenient area would we see less gun crime? I think not but is there any evidence to support it?

So your argument is that you don't have a fucking clue, but want to ponder throwing freedoms in the trashbin to find out.

 

[AngryKoala]

That’s your answer though. Don’t change the question and make it a moving argument. And no, it’s not just about Chicago, it’s been shown to be true in most every state and city in this country. The unfortunate fact that gets completely ignored by every anti gun nut, such as yourself, is that gun laws do not stop criminals from obtaining and using guns to commit crimes.

God you must be a liberal.....oh he's white must be racist. Poses a simple question....ANTI GUN NUT....Biden Voter. Get a grip.

 

[lash]

I think it is well established criminals do not obey laws. I am asking something a little different.

What you are saying is that we should have strict national gun laws enacted at the federal level to take all of the guns out of the hands of the people, since that is the only way to gain complete control of the population. I see exactly what your argument is, you fucking anti-gun shill. Take your bullshit back to Australia and New Zealand, where it worked so well.

 

[MtnCreek]

I think it is well established criminals do not obey laws. I am asking something a little different.

Yes. What you're asking is if more restrictions were placed on law abiding citizens, would that prevent some violent crimes. That's what you're saying.

Fuck


Off

 

[AngryKoala]

So your argument is that you don't have a fucking clue, but want to ponder throwing freedoms in the trashbin to find out.

I'm asking a question. Did I say anything about taking away rights?

 

[AngryKoala]

What you are saying is that we should have strict national gun laws enacted at the federal level to take all of the guns out of the hands of the people, since that is the only way to gain complete control of the population. I see exactly what your argument is, you fucking anti-gun shill. Take your bullshit back to Australia and New Zealand, where it worked so well.

I said this where? Easily triggered like a weak minded liberal.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

These type of instances always bring out the Constitutional overrides this and that conversations and I am pretty sure we ALL agree on that.
But how many here have a non stamped NFA item? Because clearly the Constitution allows such.
But how many in this thread are in States that have crazy restrictions on magazine capacity or AR15 bans? The Constitution allows it so throw the pictures up, lol...J/K.

Clearly nobody in this thread knows what was validated or not validated for the ATF to obtain search warrant. BUT what is pretty disturbing from the half page WSJ article is they listed "not paying taxes" as one of the reasons.
THAT in itself should be the issue we all have with this situation because the ATF has zero authority and dealing with taxes..EVEN the Federal Excise Tax of manufactured firearms are NOT handled by ATF.

IF we really wanted to talk Constitution then disbanding the IRS is much more important than disbanding the ATF, IMO.


Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Animal357]

All this talk of the Constitution is great, but clearly the politicians, gov agencies and courts don't care about it

 

[lash]

God you must be a liberal.....oh he's white must be racist. Poses a simple question....ANTI GUN NUT....Biden Voter. Get a grip.

No, I’m simply calling you out for what you are, so that there’s no mistake. Your argument is exactly the platform that has been used so successfully so far to advance gun control. If you are not exactly an anti-gun shill then you ARE exactly the real reason why the 2nd amendment has been so successfully attacked. You are indeed the exact type of person that Benjamin Franklin warned us about.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[AngryKoala]

Should the ATF also start cracking down on felons who decide to purchase metal working equipment and machines?



Your questions miss the Forest for the trees. Would citizens be better off in general would be a better question. I think the fact that in 1996, in the UK, the year before the 1997 gun ban, that there was a total of 119 homicides and in 2018, there was a total of 726 homicides, speaks for itself. So, not only did homicides skyrocket after the gun ban but violent crime skyrocketed at an even higher rate.

I would agree with your question being better suited and thank you for the intelligent response. I will use this in my argument with this Democrat at work (when I am allowed back from the covid).

 

[lash]

I said this where? Easily triggered like a weak minded liberal.

Lol, now who’s using wild insults instead of answering the question?

You did not come out and state it. Your argument begs the question, which is exactly the same thing as stating it. A technique that is used in a court of law all of the time and always objected to. I was objecting to your statement by argument.

And you’ve now ignored my question 2 times. Are you going to answer? Are you not from Australia?

 

[LawnMM]

Interesting things I've noticed in this conversation:

The point about history showing that gun control, in general, is ineffective is valid.

People talking about how criminals attain guns in terms of theft are forgetting straw purchases. I've talked to gang investigators who had cases on GFs of thugs that had literally purchased 40/50+ of the same handgun, because they could do it legally, and were paid to do so.

Shitcago pretty much proves gun control doesn't work.

Would gun crime increase in the absence of background checks? I believe it would. Not because it would embolden criminals but just the convenience of it.

So what's the answer?

I'm a fan of arming everyone. Ever see the movie hell or high water?



That's how you stop robberies. By getting everyone involved and letting the bad guys know they're going to walk out the door and be confronted by the whole of society for whatever douchebaggery they're engaging in.

 

[Slash0311]

At the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing, criminals will find a way to do criminal shit, regardless of laws. Laws only take away rights from those who obey the law.

Wave a magic wand and make all firearms disappear a d criminals will use knives. Take knives and they'll use clubs.

 

[hlee]

No, I’m simply calling you out for what you are, so that there’s no mistake. Your argument is exactly the platform that has been used so successfully so far to advance gun control. If you are not exactly an anti-gun shill then you ARE exactly the real reason why the 2nd amendment has been so successfully attacked. You are indeed the exact type of person that Benjamin Franklin warned us about.

Ironically, in context, that quote means almost the direct opposite of what you think it means...

 

[lash]

Ironically, in context, that quote means almost the direct opposite of what you think it means...

Not in the context that I used it.

 

[AllenOne1]

If we are talking about Chicago, most of the guns are purchased outside of Chicago and transported in.

But the majority are still purchased in Illinois if not in Chicago proper. You cannot go to Ohio and buy a gun and bring it back to Chicago legally.

 

[AngryKoala]

Lol, now who’s using wild insults instead of answering the question?

You did not come out and state it. Your argument begs the question, which is exactly the same thing as stating it. A technique that is used in a court of law all of the time and always objected to. I was objecting to your statement by argument.

And you’ve now ignored my question 2 times. Are you going to answer? Are you not from Australia?

I was simply asking for evidence and you attacked me as if I were some anti-gun asshole. I'll put it this way, it is my only hobby as I only have time for one. I would protect the 2A with my life. I voted for Trump (who hasn't been great for 2A either). I am from Northeast Ohio.

I like hearing intelligent arguments on the questions I ask because I always hear these questions at work so having other peoples arguments other than my own helps me gather more ammo to throw against the libtards I have to work with.

People really need to stop the labeling bullshit, yes I did it too and I apologize.

 

[AngryKoala]

But the majority are still purchased in Illinois if not in Chicago proper. You cannot go to Ohio and buy a gun and bring it back to Chicago legally.

Is that just handguns or is that all guns? In Ohio handguns have to be purchased in the state but all other guns can be purchased outside state lines.

 

[Doc68]

Well now I know who not to talk guns in front of. Some of you people disgust me.

What part of "shall not infringe" dont you all get?

Imagine the colonists if they were alive today, they would bitch slap some of you.

Doc

 

[hlee]

Not in the context that I used it.

Actually, you cited “Benjanim Franklin’s warning.“ His quote, which your used, was in SUPPORT of taxation for frontier defense. That “essential liberty” was frontier defense provided by the governement of Pennsylvania. He was warning against those that would look to their own interests (temporary safety) before the collective good (essential liberty). That is the opposite of how you intended to use it.

All I’m saying is that the quote is not the anti government quote that people think it is.

 

[LawnMM]

Let's all agree that, logistically, removing 300 million+ firearms from 100 million+ owners in a country whose population will not surrender them, willingly, is impossible.

So with that in mind, what's another solution beyond more ineffective laws? That's the part the lefty's have trouble with.

The only play in their book is outlawing firearms and that's preposterous in America.

Ask them about another solution at the water cooler I'd be interested in the responses.

 

[LawnMM]

Actually, you cited “Benjanim Franklin’s warning.“ His quote, which your used, was in SUPPORT of taxation for frontier defense. That “essential liberty” was frontier defense provided by the governement of Pennsylvania. He was warning against those that would look to their own interests (temporary safety) before the collective good (essential liberty). That is the opposite of how you intended to use it.

All I’m saying is that the quote is not the anti government quote that people think it is.

 

[lash]

I was simply asking for evidence and you attacked me as if I were some anti-gun asshole. I'll put it this way, it is my only hobby as I only have time for one. I would protect the 2A with my life. I voted for Trump (who hasn't been great for 2A either). I am from Northeast Ohio.

I like hearing intelligent arguments on the questions I ask because I always hear these questions at work so having other peoples arguments other than my own helps me gather more ammo to throw against the libtards I have to work with.

People really need to stop the labeling bullshit, yes I did it too and I apologize.

All right, fair enough. To be honest though, your manner and approach were exactly how I see and hear this argument couched all of the time. Perhaps that was intentional, but having watched for too long the insipid invasion of weak minded persons coming on this forum to try and dilute the argument for private gun ownership, I’m more inclined to call them out now.

We spend enough time arguing and fighting amongst ourselves for simple shit like reloading techniques and equipment choices, like any other typical messed up family of like minded individuals. I hardly think that we should be entertaining any thoughts to turn up the heat on this frog soup any more.

 

[AllenOne1]

Is that just handguns or is that all guns? In Ohio handguns have to be purchased in the state but all other guns can be purchased outside state lines.

Fair point, I'm not up on IL gun laws but suspect this may only apply to handguns if you are buying from a bordering state. However handguns would make up the majority of guns used in crimes in Chicago.

 

[AngryKoala]

All right, fair enough. To be honest though, your manner and approach were exactly how I see and hear this argument couched all of the time. Perhaps that was intentional, but having watched for too long the insipid invasion of weak minded persons coming on this forum to try and dilute the argument for private gun ownership, I’m more inclined to call them out now.

We spend enough time arguing and fighting amongst ourselves for simple shit like reloading techniques and equipment choices, like any other typical messed up family of like minded individuals. I hardly think that we should be entertaining any thoughts to turn up the heat on this frog soup any more.

100% agree and they were posed that way as that is how the questions are posed to me. My usual argument is mostly what was posted here. The tid bit about UK was new so that was good stuff.

I should have probably stated my intentions initially and I'll take responsibility for that mistake. We are on the same team brother.

 

[hlee]

View attachment 7497943

Mangled, butchered, misattributed, apocryphal, and otherwise dubious quotes are a peeve of mine. Check my sig line...

 

[AngryKoala]

Mangled, butchered, misattributed, apocryphal, and otherwise dubious quotes are a peeve of mine. Check my sig line...
View attachment 7497950

God that hurt my head reading that meme.