Girlfriend Advice

[Sharpline]

My girlfriend told me today that she wanted a rifle. This is a new and novel idea for her and I was rather surprised. I asked her what she wanted to do with it and she wants something that she can use in her home for defense and something that she can take hunting with her dad. This narrowed the rifle possibilities to a semi-automatic with a powerful round. The first thing that came to mind was a .308 (I love my .308 Remington). While I would love to share a $1500 ar10 with her or a FN-FAL, she/we do not have the funds and am looking for something around $500. Because she wants to use it for hunting it needs to be accurate to 300-400 yards. So far I have found the Saiga .308, which is in our price range, and more than powerful enough for hunting. How is the accuracy? Should I consider the 7.62x39 for her? What other platforms do I have to choose from?

Thanks for your input

 

[tireys]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Maybe a Mini-30 (7.62x39). You could maybe find one in your price range used or just slightly more. Its short and compact for home defense and would do a descent job huntin also.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I would love to stick with the .308 as it would go well with my Remington, but the 7.62x39 and the mini-30/ak47 are alternative options.

 

[Silverbullet2]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Here is what I did, found a pawn shop Remington 700 in 6mm Remington for 260.00, and had my buddy bed it into a left over PSS stock, recrown, and adjust the trigger to 3lbs, and blew the scope mounting holes to 8x40's for 200.00, mounted an old Leupold 2x7 which I had lying around, and poof, a great little soft kicking hunting rig for the little lady. Shoot around 1MOA all day long.
I would rock this set up anyday, and for what I have into it, you can't go wrong.
In the future, I will Duracoat the whole package, so it looks like mine.
Just be creative, good luck, JPG

 

[Ishikawa]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Get her an AR in 6.8 SPC....with Pink Furniture

She'll love it!

If you weren't so concerned with hunting...I'd go with a standard 5.56 AR, which could be built very close to your price considerations. Teach her the mechanics of shooting with open sights, and train her how to shoot.

I've had success hunting our small deer here in Central Texas with my AK. It puts them down, and I use it with original open sights. The problem is, I'm still not confident with it out past 50 yards to "ensure" a clean kill. I will keep practicing at 100yds, but the damn deer here are so small, that I'm not sure I'll ever get the guts with these sights / trigger to "pull the trigger" so to speak. It's ok though...I just make a corn chum line straight to me, and wait in hiding

 

[mdesign]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

An AR in .223 kills deer, has low recoil, not too expensive to shoot and costs about what you want to pay. You can always up grade if she really likes it.

Sometimes novel ideas don't last and so you don't want to spend too much going in.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

308 really isn't the best home-defense round. It sure would suck for something to go bump in the night and in response she ends up killing her neighbor two doors down while he sleeps in his bed. Consider a 20ga shotgun and some slugs for deer hunting.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Good point. I would love to get her a .223 for hunting but I believe it is not legal in Colorado. How does the 20ga do for deer hunting?

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharpline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good point. I would love to get her a .223 for hunting but I believe it is not legal in Colorado. How does the 20ga do for deer hunting?</div></div>
20 Gauge with a slug should anchor just about any animal on the face of the planet at the correct range and at the proper shot placement. Range can be extended with rifled barrel and sabot slugs if they are even made for the 20 gauge (12 gauge they are plentiful).......It's hard to argue with a slug.
SmokeRolls

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 really isn't the best home-defense round. It sure would suck for something to go bump in the night and in response she ends up killing her neighbor two doors down while he sleeps in his bed. Consider a 20ga shotgun and some slugs for deer hunting.
</div></div>

While I am not attempting to state that a .308 is the answer to her particular problem, the above quote is FAR from the truth, especially considering some of the ammo we were testing last week. If you want a residential round, take a look at the Hornady 110gr TAP. It's not a great long range round, but it's devastating up close. Amazingly enough it even worked through glass although with a LOT of spall/frag.

For her requirements I would suggest an AK47. When loaded with expanding ammo it's a solid defensive carbine and I have heard they are decent on deer. Although I don't hunt, I can't imagine an AK would be less capable than a .357mag (legal for pistol caliber carbines here).

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Saiga is essentialy an AK47? How is the reliability? I was looking at Hungarian Sa85m's, any others I should be considering? I really like the idea of the .308 though, it would be using fragmenting rounds for sure.

 

[Oodin]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I hope this isn't too far from what you want to hear but here goes. I'm not a big fan of an All Purpose Rifle. If she wants a defensive rifle/plinker get her one.

Couldn't she just borrow a rifle for hunting?

I also think the 20 gauge or even a 12 gauge with reduced recoil loads would be worth mentioning.

(I've heard that a 12 with reduced recoil is about like a 20, not to mention the platform is more flexible. Of course a 20 is usually a lighter, handier weapon so the choice would depend on her size.)

All of this is moot if she WANTS a rifle. Believe me I've been there, it's why I don't own a shotgun yet: I WANTED a rifle.

ETA: HD doesn't have to be semi automatic. Many people run lever guns; maybe a .357/.44/.45 Colt. Just another thought.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Fellows, I don't think many deer are killed in Colorado with slugs.
Since the OP is talking about across-the-canyon shots, he should be thinking full caliber rifle. Them mulies can get big.

Hows about a used Remington 742 or BAR in 30-06 or .270? I think high cap (10rd) mags are available for social occasions.

The 7.62x39 is OK for Texas whitetails to 200-220yd, but trajectory gets loopy, and accuracy of semiauto offerings makes them solid performers only to 150 yd or so. My 77MKII bolt gun is another matter, but I would never shoot unwounded game over about 220y with the little thirty. You're down to about 800 ft/lb @200yd. I'm using Speer's 130 HP @ 2400fps.

Cut the stock to a proper length, put a good pad (KickEez or Decelerator) on it.

If it has to be tactical, a 6.8 or 6.5 sounds good.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

the rub of the matter is the $500.00 and as such limits your options.

A AK or a variant will do everything you are asking. Just dont expect it to be a sub MOA rifle.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

She sure could use my rifle, but she also wants to go shooting with her dad. She said she would be fine with a 20ga, but I am worried about it's range (I have never used a shot gun for hunting, let alone a 20ga). Lever action is a good thought, maybe a nice model 94.

 

[frog5215]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Neither an AK nor a M-94 is much good over 150yd, 1/2 or less than the stated need.

How about a used 20ga 1100 and a Savage 110 package in a deer caliber?

 

[black_ump]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

i would also say an ar15 with say 20" barrel or a mini 14 but if 223 isnt legal why not try a g3/cetme for the all round gun that does it all id also vote for a 12ga but id get a mossburge 930 just my opinion

 

[okiefired]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

SKS? Problem is, accurate to 400 isn't gonna happen for <$500 AND for self defense AND for hunting cross canyon unless you're comfortable with a LONG gun for self def. There are a lot of older military bolt guns chambered in 7.5 to 8mm that are kick ass hunting rifles but are a bit long for CQB. Its pretty amazing to me that folks are even mentioning shotguns with the distance you're talking about. How bout a good German made Makarov (9x18....pistol) for about $150(?) for self defense and then a good clean Yugo 8mm mauser for knocking a deers d--- in the dirt (muley or not)? Also depends on how reciol sensitive she is. All together, well within your price w/ammo. Just another route.

okie

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Someone is interested in trading me a Century Arms FAL for one of my EoTech 557 and $400. I have heard that the Century Arm's models can be hit or miss although I do not know much about FALs, but it sounds like it would fall into my price range and needs. It sounds like a decent deal, but I will see if I can get $300. Here is his message, what do you think?

How bout the Eotech and $400 for a like new Century FAL. R1A1 configuration with carry handle, sand cut bolt, bipod, original/possibly new chrome-lined British barrel and 5 new magazines (I think I put a few rounds through 2 of them). Total round count under 100 and accuracy of 1 moa with handloads (will provide details of load used). Has both orig and rail equipped top cover. Receiver is one of the desireable ones that Century produced and uses both standard and metric mags. This is a beautiful rifle. You will love it if you are interested in a FAL.
It has spent the last two years sitting in the safe.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I would go with the FAL, great guns. Price sounds fair to me.
It wouldn't hurt to try the $300 extra instead of $400. I don't understand how you can have a possibly new barrel with a round count? Good luck,

Strangedays

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I will see if I can get ahold of it.

 

[BigBoss0311]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

cetme maybe?

 

[Big_Thunder]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

dpms in 243 or 260 and dont look back http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=2004&cat=1760

 

[LimaBravo]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

In regard to the issue of over penetration with a .308 you will see some big hunks of frag exit a human body and continue for about 10-20 ft.I don't know what kind of velocity to expect on the frag but the pieces are sizable.(Federal 168gr BTHP out of a 24 inch barrel from about 40 yds)

The larger issue,IMHO,is what happens to that round if you miss your intended target? In a residential setting that round will travel until something or someone stops it. Under stress even the best combat shooters can miss.

For urban areas I like the Federal 55gr .223 TRU round. Designed for AR platform,no over penetration issue and will knock down full grown people all day long with good center mass hits. In the event of a miss the round doesn't usually survive the first impact depending on what it hits. I've seen it sail through drywall and then hit 2x4 studs and disintegrate. Also saw one hit T-111 siding and not penetrate into the home.

Good round on coyotes, dogs and like sized critters but moderate range only.

Just my .02 worth on the topic.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I am not sure what to think about the FAL this guy wants to trade me for my EoTech, I have read good and bad reviews. But it is gigantic. Is there any market for resale of these things? If so what do you think I could get for it?

 

[keithtb1]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I would sell the eotech and bank the money towards something more usefull. Trying to fill the bill with one weapon is always going to leave an area wanting. A good home protection weapon is probably not going to be a good hunter and vice a versa. You have to pick what is going to be more usefull and what is more important to your needs. Any good hunting rifle, Lets say a bolt action .308 with a 3x9 scope would be better for home protection than nothing at all. If danger came a calling and she could get to a safe area in the house, and arm herself with her rifle while calling the police. I pity the fool who approached her prior to PD responding. Its still all mindset and training even with that weapon. Maybe down the road you could save up for an inexpensive shotgun or handgun which would better fit the bill for home defense and give her a new area of shooting to discover. Just my .02. Good luck.

 

[A33S]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

+1 on the 6.8mm My buddy built one for his daughter to take out while hunting and she loves it. She also takes it out shooting when they go out target.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Yea, we are looking at a .243 hunting rifle now, remington. Just for a starter, maybe a shotgun later.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I say a 6.8 SPC. Mild recoil comapred to a .308 Semi and Great velocity...if not mistaken it has the same energy at 100 yards as a 5.56 has at its muzzle. Good home defense round and can easily take a deer at 100-200 yards as long as there is good shot placement. SSA has the comabt rounds that are very violent and have great ballistics, plus you can build a good 6.8 AR platform for around $700. I mean it may not be with Noveske stuff but you could still build a nice AR set up for that amount.

Also, IMHO a bolt gun is not my first choice for home defence. I mean if its all you go, but I think you could have the best of both worlds with the set up I listed above. Just my $.02

 

[Rundownfid]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

As many are saying above, the problem of a powerful round for hunting out to 500 yds and a home defense round, are incomparable. She needs two rifles, eventually, but she needs to learn to shoot first. you might consider a .22 to learn rifle shills and then a compact rifle for home defense, an M4 or AK are possibilities, a Marlin 336, or any number of similar carbines should work.

You have a number of months until she needs to be ready to hunt with her dad, so there is time to get a rifle ready after she learns to shoot and secures her premises.

So, get her a Marlin 795, put an inexpensive scope or Tech Sites on it and let her learn to shoot (you might go to an Appleseed with her). This will set you back nearly $300, but she should then be a competent shot, and even a .22 well handled is much better than a 911 call.

Stevens and Marlin make short action bolt guns for very little money, and both are plenty accurate for hunting and honing her longer range shooting skills. When hunting season rolls around you can have her ready for an additional $350?

It sounds like you will have a lot of fun work in the months ahead, best of luck.

 

[divejay]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k9222</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say a 6.8 SPC. Mild recoil comapred to a .308 Semi and Great velocity...if not mistaken it has the same energy at 100 yards as a 5.56 has at its muzzle. Good home defense round and can easily take a deer at 100-200 yards as long as there is good shot placement. SSA has the comabt rounds that are very violent and have great ballistics, plus you can build a good 6.8 AR platform for around $700. I mean it may not be with Noveske stuff but you could still build a nice AR set up for that amount.

Also, IMHO a bolt gun is not my first choice for home defence. I mean if its all you go, but I think you could have the best of both worlds with the set up I listed above. Just my $.02</div></div>

i would agree about the 6.8 spc for her. but u'll be very lucky if you find an upper for $500.
bolt gun like a 243 migh be on that price range used one!

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

We did find a .243 at a local shop here, remington bolt action, I think it was the 770 maybe? It came in at about 500 with a Nikon scope. That maybe the direction we go. She does have a .22 that I gave her to learn on, iron sights only, and she uses my 10/22 with the scope. She is getting there, nice weather is right around the corner, time to start shooting more.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

If i could find a 6.8 for cheap I would jump on that, I love the AR platform..

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

20ga Sabots are made as Rem Copper Solids and Hornady SST's. There may be others as well, but these are my choices. I use 'em and they are both accurate and effective.

IMHO, the 20ga is preferable to 12ga. I think they shoot flatter and straighter.

Recoil from my 12ga 870 with Copper Solids is simply brutal. The 20ga is a lot more sustainable for sighting and practice.

No matter what platform you use, simply sighting and going hunting is not sufficient. One needs to practice; and the 20ga makes this a lot more friendly, especially for smaller framed shooters.

For shotgun slugs, either guage, I think it's practical to limit shots to within about 125yd. In our area, mostly wooded, that's a really long shot.

For open ground, I use a .30-'06.

For the girls, I load it with Remington 125gr (Core-Lokt) Managed Recoil loads. These are effective at 250yd, and don't beat up the user. Then, if I'm using the gun, I substitute Remington 150gr Core-Lokt loads, which are easily good for another 100yd, but the point here is not about effective range; but rather, about sustainable practice.

Using commercial Managed Recoil loadings allows a consistent performance with a load that's had a lot more development than I can provide as a handloader. Meanwhile, the rifle is still usable with stiffer loads. And the brass works very nicely as handloads in my Garand.

I don't think an autoloader is a good choice for a newer hunter. I want them to have the opportunity to think a bit longer between shots.

Greg

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I think ratbert has the right idea with a 20ga shotgun. I think that would be great for what your requirements are...hunting or home defense.

How about a new/used lever action in 30-30 winchester? I think just about everyone has a tirty tirty for deer huntin' round here. The 30-30 is an excellent deer cartridge and the lever action would give you slightly more rapid fire than a bolt would. I would go with a carbine version if home defense was also a priority.

Just a thought...

 

[FARGO]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

+1 on the 6.8SPC... You wont be disappointed...

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=13_22&products_id=210

Great little guns, low recoil, and she can customize it in the future...

Here is a old pic of my 6.8 ... it smoked two large sized muley does last year at 150-200yards... good shot placement and it puts them down.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Nice Rifle.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharpline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My girlfriend told me today that she wanted a rifle. This is a new and novel idea for her and I was rather surprised. I asked her what she wanted to do with it and she wants something that she can use in her home for defense and something that she can take hunting with her dad. This narrowed the rifle possibilities to a semi-automatic with a powerful round. The first thing that came to mind was a .308 (I love my .308 Remington). While I would love to share a $1500 ar10 with her or a FN-FAL, she/we do not have the funds and am looking for something around $500. Because she wants to use it for hunting it needs to be accurate to 300-400 yards. So far I have found the Saiga .308, which is in our price range, and more than powerful enough for hunting. How is the accuracy? Should I consider the 7.62x39 for her? What other platforms do I have to choose from?

Thanks for your input </div></div>

Whose idea is the semi-auto, you're s or hers? Forget semi-auto, look for a used bolt action and perhaps a scope. Your budget is $500 and it's not only her first rifle but she wants to hunt as well. You insistence on some sort of military rifle defeats(somewhat) a hunting application within your budget constraints. Especially for a beginner.

You won't get any AR type for $500 and a shotgun has limited hunting utility as compared to a rifle, especially in Co. A used Rem 700 in .243 to 30-06 will last her a long time. Not only that you can kick her dad to the curb and go hunting with her yourself!

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

She likes my semi-autos, but we have been looking at bolt actions too. In the end it is her choice, I am just trying to find the best options for her.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharpline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">She likes my semi-autos, but we have been looking at bolt actions too. In the end it is her choice, I am just trying to find the best options for her. </div></div>

A big advantage of a bolt is handloading like Greg suggests "For open ground, I use a .30-'06.

For the girls, I load it with Remington 125gr (Core-Lokt) Managed Recoil loads. These are effective at 250yd, and don't beat up the user. Then, if I'm using the gun, I substitute Remington 150gr Core-Lokt loads, which are easily good for another 100yd, but the point here is not about effective range; but rather, about sustainable practice.

Using commercial Managed Recoil loadings allows a consistent performance with a load that's had a lot more development than I can provide as a handloader. Meanwhile, the rifle is still usable with stiffer loads. And the brass works very nicely as handloads".

A light handload is a great way to learn to shoot. And light handloads will not cycle most semi-autos.

 

[Elxx]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I don't think I saw anyone mention this but wouldn't a 6.5 grendel be great? Ammo could kinda be an issue but it doesn't sound like she is gonna wanna shoot more than 200 rounds per year.


Edit: Saw the 6.8 recommendation...ya that might be the better route.

 

[Bigbrotheretter]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

For a good cheap bolt action you can get a marlin xs7 or xl7, stevens 200 and get a good scope on it. OR save a little more and get used Remington 700 bdl or something. Good luck!

 

[Quicky06]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

for your budget the only only two things that come to mind are a shot gun or a lever action 30-30.

Both allow a couple hundred yards of minute of deer.

Theyve been around long enough that getting ammo shouldnt be a problem.

the shotgun would be the best though. easy to change barrels to suit the purpose. cant be beat for home defense. and with the right barrel and sabots you can stretch it out farther than you would need in my area.

yet i dont own one..... and have to reason why

 

[athanasios23]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

i would go with the 5.56 or 6.8 semi auto and just let her borrow one of your guns for hunting...308 u spoke of....if she turns out to like shooting at the range and hunting she will most likely be like everyone on this site and constantly want a new gun or parts to make her current gun better. If it turns out to be just a novel idea u get a new gun.

 

[500grains]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharpline</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Because she wants to use it for hunting it needs to be accurate to 300-400 yards. </div></div>

$500 + 400 yards

Get her a bolt action .260 or .308 in a Rem model 7. The 7.62x39 is not a 400 yard hunting cartridge.

By the way, an FN FAL is not a girl-friendly rifle, and it is not that great with a scope on top.

 

[cmh2007]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

i have just the ticket

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

Until the lady develops a true appreciation for the hunt, a Rem 770 .30-'06 is both economical and effective. This low cost solution has been developed to serve the larger market, and achieves that goal very admirably.

The true connoiseur will understandably balk at the choice; but push comes to shove, they could still use it very effectively.

Greg

 

[NY700]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

The rem 770 is not a bad choice, but the bolt is very hard to manipulate and is a far cry from the 700. I've seen used rem 700's at gander mountain for almost the same price as a new 770.

 

[Sharpline]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

I passed on the FAL, just going to sell/trade the EoTech for something else. I told her she could have her rifle in pink, she hated that idea, she wants a real looking gun she said. She is saving some more money, and we are probably going to build her a 6.8 spc ar. But we will see when the time comes.

 

[hopps]

Re: Girlfriend Advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Until the lady develops a true appreciation for the hunt, a Rem 770 .30-'06 is both economical and effective. This low cost solution has been developed to serve the larger market, and achieves that goal very admirably.

The true connoiseur will understandably balk at the choice; but push comes to shove, they could still use it very effectively.

Greg </div></div>
I support the economy 7 series remington offers but if my wife wanted to start hunting I would find her a used 760 / 7600 remington pump in 6mm, 270 or 06. note here the 3006 pump kicks noticeably less than a 3006 bolt action. Run a tip off scope mount, peep sights on these rifles easily reach to 200 yards and a cheap scope gets you a little further.

watching gun shows/ gun shops and pawn shops I see these rifles come around for 350-500 all the time.