Hi I was wandering if there is a difference In glass Between the 5-25x56 with dt lp turrets compared to the 5-25x56 with locking turrents or are they the same scope with just different turrets. If you look at a photo of them side by side they look different in size.
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Rifle Scopes Glass quality in S&B models
- Thread starter jarredsc
- Start date
OP, scope company marketing literature doesn’t ever seem to be correct. It’s almost like a universal truth.
This is simple. I have owned Nightforce, Minox ZP5 series, vortext RazorHD, Zies, Leupold. The Schmidts are the best glass on the market. I run a Minox zp5 only because of the reticle. I have used all of those to look at a sporting clay while shooting at it out to 1 mile. If you are buying a new Schmidt, you will be buying the top of the line glass.
I’ve had a 5-25 and 5-45 and my eyes like NF glass better.
I’ve heard NF describes as blue and crisper/colder. And Bender as brown and warmer. Seems to fit my experiences.
What does @Bender have to do with it?
I really like my S&B and also like the NF 7-35s I’ve looked through. I hope to someday get the NF so that I can compare them.
Agree with this as far as the newer SB scopes are concerned; my 5-25 PSR is noticeably clearer/brighter/more resolute than my 3-12x50 and 4-16x42 but about the same as the 3-20/5-20 US I have been behind. The 4-16 and 5-25 have Horus reticles while the 3-12 has a gen2 Mildot...The difference isn’t huge but is noticeable at equivalent magnification settings. I had a much older SB 2.5-10x56 hunting scope made in W. Germany that had absolutely phenomenal glass, shouldn’t have sold it.
Glass appears different for everyone so it could just be me...Either way, I enjoy looking through all my Schmidts.
I guess he is a little brown and warm. Never met him lolWhat does @Bender have to do with it?
I really like my S&B and also like the NF 7-35s I’ve looked through. I hope to someday get the NF so that I can compare them.
Upgrading a 4-16 atacr. Leaning towards a ZCO 5-27 or NF 5-25 or 7-35
I should just stick a minox 5-25 on and be happy
I’ve had both the DT MTC turrets for the marine version and the DT MTC LT turrets and the glass is literally identical. Highly recommend. If a ZCO is in your budget tho, get one of those.
I am working with the SFP 3-21x Exos and brought it to Alaska with me,
The air there is very humid, wet is a word, and once the temps creep above 70 it's a wall of water to see through. The S&B Cut the mirage better than 99% of the scopes on the line. The students all took a turn checking it out, this is where differences in glass and coatings come into play.
Everyone is used to comparing it to good conditions or during competitions where things are laid out nice and neat for you. Once the air quality turns sour, and you start magnifying the problems glass quality starts to take front and center. Because the range is not graded and actually has a lot of holes in it, we have targets that are off the ground very high but sit just level with the shooter's positions. The mirage just covers things up really bad.
So bad in AK last month we could not see the MagnetoSpeed T1000s flashing except when the very slight breeze moved it. I had one higher-end, popular scope not see targets on the berm at 600 yards, they just disappeared. The S&B Cut the mirage enough to see everything including 5" Clay pigeons.
Here in CO where the air is dry, most scopes look great, very little downside and very little mirage even in the high heat. Add in variables, better glass shines. The Coatings on the S&B also help pull colors out of vegetation so you can identify objects in the woods. If you want to look at glass quality put out reds and yellows and see how they look, use the main primary colors too, Blue, Red, Yellow, vs just White or black targets and that is glass starts to shine.
The new turret design is also pretty friggin sweet,
This is a BAD ASS SCOPE even if its SFP
The air there is very humid, wet is a word, and once the temps creep above 70 it's a wall of water to see through. The S&B Cut the mirage better than 99% of the scopes on the line. The students all took a turn checking it out, this is where differences in glass and coatings come into play.
Everyone is used to comparing it to good conditions or during competitions where things are laid out nice and neat for you. Once the air quality turns sour, and you start magnifying the problems glass quality starts to take front and center. Because the range is not graded and actually has a lot of holes in it, we have targets that are off the ground very high but sit just level with the shooter's positions. The mirage just covers things up really bad.
So bad in AK last month we could not see the MagnetoSpeed T1000s flashing except when the very slight breeze moved it. I had one higher-end, popular scope not see targets on the berm at 600 yards, they just disappeared. The S&B Cut the mirage enough to see everything including 5" Clay pigeons.
Here in CO where the air is dry, most scopes look great, very little downside and very little mirage even in the high heat. Add in variables, better glass shines. The Coatings on the S&B also help pull colors out of vegetation so you can identify objects in the woods. If you want to look at glass quality put out reds and yellows and see how they look, use the main primary colors too, Blue, Red, Yellow, vs just White or black targets and that is glass starts to shine.
The new turret design is also pretty friggin sweet,
This is a BAD ASS SCOPE even if its SFP
How easy to get behind? With the truncated length, what does it give up - if anything.
My experience lies much more in not shorty scopes, but I see how that would be very useful in certain applications. And the folder is hella sweet, it makes my old-ass AIAW seem so antiquated.
This site has cost me more money than last least my first car, if not my first 2.
Were there any TTs on the line? I often shoot in high temp/high humidity and my TT does better than anything I have run side-by-side.
We had 4 TTs on the line,
I am going to avoid talking about them, guys like them, and they are hella money compared to other scopes on the market. We pulled one for an undiagnosed reason, it tracked correctly but the rifle would not shoot. We put my loaner SWFA SS on it, and it worked, letting the shooter finish up the class. We never figured out if it was the scope.
The Kahles, Zco, TTs were all good looks, but the S&B had the attention of the entire class.
I have a ton more pictures, I just have to move them to my desktop.
I am going to avoid talking about them, guys like them, and they are hella money compared to other scopes on the market. We pulled one for an undiagnosed reason, it tracked correctly but the rifle would not shoot. We put my loaner SWFA SS on it, and it worked, letting the shooter finish up the class. We never figured out if it was the scope.
The Kahles, Zco, TTs were all good looks, but the S&B had the attention of the entire class.
I have a ton more pictures, I just have to move them to my desktop.
These comments assume S&B engineers are stupid and don't know what they're doing.
What are the odds of that?
The external dimensions are different but not in the area where it affects the optics. The turret housing is a little wider on the locking turret model. But the glass is positioned exactly the same. No difference.
Do you happen to remember what the humidity level was, or was it actual rain?
I was wondering because certain times of the year, we might have similar conditions here to pull out some scopes and see how they do.
Yeah I love mushy turrets and a warranty that you know you will have to use.
I always like the S&B for glass quality but didn't like the PM2 turrets. Since the release of the DT2+ turrets I now have 3 with the MSR2 reticle. The scopes are money and while my TT may have a touch better glass, all the different manufacturers have conditions that make their scopes perform better than others. On a different day with different conditions a different scope looks better. It seems all designs have to make compromises of some sort but the S&B always performs well. What is also interesting to me is with more than one identical scope you also have slight variability from scope to scope (one will look better than the others).
Someone up above edited their post but he was saying in so many words that turrets don’t matter and insinuating that vortex has just as good glass as the top tier scopes. And the top tier scopes aren’t worth $2000 more than gaytex
In other words the poors were posting
Both, we had rain and well over 75% humidity, it almost always rains in AK, the air is super thick and heavy,
Also we see a lot of Snell's law, because the cold air will get trapped under warm air, and cause problems with Mirage, you can almost count on our data being corrupt when it happens, we see as much as a 1 Mil of offset at 1000 yards, usually, it averages about .5 mils high, but in bad mirage conditions it's terrible. When it rains we like it better because the air is flat, no sun.
Minox are a solid option, Andy who designed the PM2 5-25x did the Minox, same guy
I had a Vortex 4.5-27 for a week a couple years ago. Compared it to my Schmidts and it was night and day, and not in a good way. received it on a Monday and sold/shipped it by that Friday.
I can personally say if you are comparing a Vortex, I have seen it not work as well with hidden targets in the woods.
Happened at the SHC, I was running a Vortex Gen 2 Razor, had a hard time picking out targets in the woods. In the last stage I was out of ammo, so I borrowed an AT with Sig Tango 6 on it, (Same general design as the Vortex) and it kicked the Vortex ass to see the targets in the woods.
I find the Vortex darker, especially if you dial a lot of elevation, you can watch it get darker.
Like I said, guys who shoot competition like certain scopes but they are not working as hard as you think. Once you start putting them to the test in hard see situations the cream rises and you can tell where the money difference comes from, the Vortex are great scopes, but under less than optimal conditions, I think they drop a notch compared to others. Most have no clue because they only look when things are nice, vs taking them to task when things are not.
Happened at the SHC, I was running a Vortex Gen 2 Razor, had a hard time picking out targets in the woods. In the last stage I was out of ammo, so I borrowed an AT with Sig Tango 6 on it, (Same general design as the Vortex) and it kicked the Vortex ass to see the targets in the woods.
I find the Vortex darker, especially if you dial a lot of elevation, you can watch it get darker.
Like I said, guys who shoot competition like certain scopes but they are not working as hard as you think. Once you start putting them to the test in hard see situations the cream rises and you can tell where the money difference comes from, the Vortex are great scopes, but under less than optimal conditions, I think they drop a notch compared to others. Most have no clue because they only look when things are nice, vs taking them to task when things are not.
Frank,
Thank you for speaking your mind and sharing your experience. I know in your position you are limited in what you can say.
Your opinions carry weight with a lot of folks.
Thank you for speaking your mind and sharing your experience. I know in your position you are limited in what you can say.
Your opinions carry weight with a lot of folks.
Air Sits heavy in AK,
The lane holds everything in and no wind gets past the berms and trees enough to push it out.
Then when the sun is out, you can see it in the air,
It's not Hot per se, it's just bright, and with the water vapor trapped in the lane, it's like a wall,
I switch my Zeiss Spotter to a non-reticle variable and use 15x to spot.
It can get soupy, like the 800-yard target on the left can blend into the background
Just past 600 yards the wall begins, you can almost see it. The duelling tree is at 500.
The lane holds everything in and no wind gets past the berms and trees enough to push it out.
Then when the sun is out, you can see it in the air,
It's not Hot per se, it's just bright, and with the water vapor trapped in the lane, it's like a wall,
I switch my Zeiss Spotter to a non-reticle variable and use 15x to spot.
It can get soupy, like the 800-yard target on the left can blend into the background
Just past 600 yards the wall begins, you can almost see it. The duelling tree is at 500.
We mostly see NF SHV up there, not so much the higher end ones.
The SHV are proven and they tend to track 100%, not really sure on the mirage side of it, but those are mostly 14x so the mirage is not a big concern overall.
The SHV are proven and they tend to track 100%, not really sure on the mirage side of it, but those are mostly 14x so the mirage is not a big concern overall.
They are out,
www.eurooptic.com
Schmidt Bender Exos 3-21x50 SFP Riflescope LRH-MOA Illuminated 1/4 MOA 757-911-72D-L3-F1Y
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No Sir there is no difference in glass between 5-25x56 SCOPES with different turrets.
Few questions for you sir. Are you still running the EXOS? If one is indifferent to sfp and ffp, is there a scope in this power range you would recommend over it? Lastly, how would you compare the scope to the 3-20 pmii, the non ultra short version. Thanks!
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