Glock 17 Recoil Spring Help...

[Deepwoods]

I have a Glock 17, with a Zev comp on the barrel and a red dot, that doesn't seem to like proper recoil. I know the weight of the comp usually requires a lighter spring.

The OEM spring (17 lbs...?) didn't work. I have since tried a 15lbs and 13 lbs spring and neither work, although they seem to get progressively less bad.

I do have an 11lbs spring I can try, but before I try that, is there anything else that I should be aware of?

I'm using regular 124 gr range ammo (Fioochi and Federal).

 

[Bluedog82]

What Gen Glock and what issues are you having specifically?

 

[308pirate]

doesn't seem to like proper recoil.

Wtf does this even mean?

If you're down to a 13 lb spring and the gun still doesn't run something with it is majorly fucked

 

[Deepwoods]

Ha, yes, that wasn't particularly clear.

Some of the time, there's a failure to extract, and some of the time the slide cycles enough to extract but not feed the next round.

As to the second part, yes. I'm not a frequent Glock user/ shooter and so looking for a list of potential fuckary to check.

It's a P80 frame and (gen 3) Zev slide with Zev comp

 

[reelserious]

The 11 lbs will do it

 

[Bluedog82]

I had similar issues with a P80 and Herrington comp. I went down to 11 and still had issues; switching the ejector to a 47021 seems to have finally fixed it.

 

[Deepwoods]

Thank you both for the input. I'll try the 11 lbs, as well as a just-ordered mini comp; see if something much lighter helps.

 

[Racer88]

It's a P80 frame and (gen 3) Zev slide with Zev comp

Ah, so it's not a Glock. It's a P80 build.

It could be a lot of things. But assuming the rest of the build is up to snuff.... it could be that it needs a lighter recoil spring. But if even the 13-lb spring didn't do the trick, I'm wondering if it's something else. If you remove the compensator, does it work flawlessly then?

I recently built a P80 PF940V2 (which is the G17 clone frame). I used an extended and ported barrel, which similarly tames the recoil / muzzle flip by venting gas... which reduces the force against the recoil spring. So, often with ported or compensated barrels, a lighter spring is needed.

I had to go down to a 14 pound spring to get it to cycle reliably.

But, in your case, it may be something else, AS WELL. How does your RSA channel look in the frame? Seeing some photos of the inside of your frame would help. Like these:

Also, if the slide lock spring isn't seated completely, it can interfere with the recoil spring assembly. Is your slide lock spring protruding into the channel? Or is it flush, like this?

Are you rails level? If you put the slide on the frame with only the rails installed... Does the slide move easily on the rails? Or is there friction?

Other photos like these can help, too:

Lastly... for your internal frame and slide parts... OEM Glock? Or aftermarket?

 

[Charmingmander]

All of the above is great info. If you have a custom built clone please don't say it's a Glock 17. That confuses the fuck out of everyone lol.

 

[Deepwoods]

Thank you. Those are all great places to investigate. I appreciate the visuals.

I thought it was "Glock enough," but clearly the differences are actually substantial enough.

Its a P80 frame, with Zev innards & trigger, and a (complete) Zev slide and the "matching" Zev comp.

 

[Racer88]

Thank you. Those are all great places to investigate. I appreciate the visuals.

I thought it was "Glock enough," but clearly the differences are actually substantial enough.

Its a P80 frame, with Zev innards & trigger, and a (complete) Zev slide and the "matching" Zev comp.

So, is it an "80%" P80 frame (PF940V2) that you worked (drilled the pin holes, removed the RSA channel block, etc)?

Or is it a "100%" / serialized P80 frame (PFS9)?

If you finished an 80% frame, then all the stuff I posted about seeing the inside matters. Obviously, if it's a 100% finished frame from the factory, we can assume the frame is "kosher."

I've heard mixed reviews on Zev stuff. But no personal experience. I've heard that their slides have very tight tolerances, which can work against the intentionally "loosey-goosey" Glock design.

 

[Racer88]

I have a Glock 17, with a Zev comp on the barrel and a red dot, that doesn't seem to like proper recoil.

I went back to the OP. Not sure what this means.

I know the weight of the comp usually requires a lighter spring.

To my knowledge (which I do not claim is complete)... the weight of a compensator on the barrel has no bearing on recoil. The weight of the optic on the slide could possibly have an effect. But I doubt it's enough in most cases. I have not found it to be the case with my optic-equipped pistols.

The effect of the compensator on recoil isn't the weight. It's the diversion of the explosive gases. Less "gas" pushing the slide backwards.

A compensator (or ported barrel) reduces the force of the gases on the slide (making it go rearwards). With less "push" available to make the slide cycle all the way back, a standard recoil spring may be too "strong," preventing it from fully cycling. So, a lower weight spring is often needed.

But, as I mentioned before... other things can also hinder the smooth and complete cycling of the the slide. Interference in the RSA channel is probably the most common with P80 builds.

You may find this video helpful pertaining to finishing the RSA channel in P80 builds:

P80 Channel Finishing Part 2 - Beyond the Molded U

More on fine-tuning the finish of the RSA channel in your Polymer80 build.

odysee.com

 

[Deepwoods]

It was an 80% that I finished a while back. At the time, I had done a few 80%s and found, in my limited experience that, yes, they were tight as compared to an OEM Glock, and didn't like having companies mixed and matched. So eg the Zev slide was unhappy with the not Zev barrel.

This one in particular *was* functioning fine for a while. It was never a high round count pistol--I liked the 1911-grip angle and also it "being" a Glock--but it did cycle with the few different types of 124g ammo I fed it. It has an SRO on top too (and yes, I realize now that detail ought to have been included above.

Then earlier this year I got it serialized (state thing) and thereafter it has been temperamental. This has to be coincidence, vs causal, but it has been a surprising head scratcher.

"didn't seem to like to recoil" was a poorly worded way of saying failure to eject or failure to feed.

Thank you for the additional links.

 

[Racer88]

Then earlier this year I got it serialized (state thing) and thereafter it has been temperamental.

Maybe it "knows!" The frame is pissed off because you serialized it!

 

[Deepwoods]

Maybe it "knows!" The frame is pissed off because you serialized it!

Stranger things have happened...

I did take a look (and listen) at the recoil spring channel and when I installed it slowly, and listened, I could hear rubbing. I cleaned that up with a file/ demel and it sounds better, though theres not a lot of space with the recoil spring I am using; maybe that is also an issue. (its from GlockStore).

Anyway, I'll give it a try and see if it helped

 

[Racer88]

Stranger things have happened...

I did take a look (and listen) at the recoil spring channel and when I installed it slowly, and listened, I could hear rubbing. I cleaned that up with a file/ demel and it sounds better, though theres not a lot of space with the recoil spring I am using; maybe that is also an issue. (its from GlockStore).

Anyway, I'll give it a try and see if it helped

Photos or it never happened! But yeah... photos of the RSA channel would help. I've seen a lot of them that the builders THOUGHT were finished... but not so much.

For most of my builds, I use OEM Glock RSAs. For the "Tank" build pictured previously, with the ported barrel, I used an uncaptured spring from Wolff Springs on an RSA guide from Rook Tactical.

 

[Deepwoods]

So... the RSA channel cleanup helped... maybe. With the 15lb spring--being cocky, I went back to that--it ejected cleanly but didn't feed. I will probably clean it up a bit more.

Next step is to try a micro comp, mostly bc it came in the mail this afternoon and looks cool on the pistol.

 

[Racer88]

I went back to that--it ejected cleanly but didn't feed.

Didn't feed meaning it didn't pick up the next round at all (leaving it behind still in the magazine)?

Or didn't feed meaning it picked up the round but it didn't go all the way in the chamber... like this?

I guess we're never going to see any photos of the inside of the frame.

 

[Deepwoods]

After the initial slide drop/ load round, it was a mix of failing to fully eject the spent case and pickup the next round. I think as the recoil spring weight went down (17 to 15 to 13, it went more to successfully ejecting but not picking up the next round.

I did take some pics, but in the process, realized that I needed to file a bit more.

My next range trip will see if that--with no comp--helps. If so, I will try the Zev and the micro comp.

 

[91Eunozs]

Could be so many things. Have you tried the slide/barrel on a known good (preferably stock) G17 frame first?

And vice-versa if that passes muster.

 

[Deepwoods]

Could be so many things. Have you tried the slide/barrel on a known good (preferably stock) G17 frame first?

And vice-versa if that passes muster.

I have not. I don't have any (gen3) Glocks and this pistol has been much more an occasional project/ range toy that it only occasionally gets placed on the front burner. And currently my leftover OEM gen 3 G17 slide is being used elsewhere. But good ideas.

That it had functioned well/ better in the past is part of the issue.

Obviously, "what changed" is the relevant question; it may have been putting in a different recoil spring & rod. Issues and timeline are a little fuzzy for me.

 

[bonifacio]

I'd say remove the comp.
Throw in the factory #17 spring.
Grab some +P rounds.
Shoot it. Break it in well.
Until it shoots reliably with standard ammo.
Then try it with the comp.

Even racking the slide a bunch of times can do the trick.
Once that fire reliably, then revisit the comp. I'd say that's the best course when troubleshooting in this scenario.

Had a P80. I had to keep shaving things down.
Racked the hell out of it and it worked.
Got rid of it and went with a serialized P80. Now that just hangs on the wall. Never shot it.

 

[Racer88]

Had a P80. I had to keep shaving things down.
Racked the hell out of it and it worked.

I've never had to "rack" any of my P80 builds... or "shave" anything down to get them to run. But, I build them very meticulously and very very slowly.

 

[308pirate]

I've never had to "rack" any of my P80 builds... or "shave" anything down to get them to run. But, I build them very meticulously and very very slowly.

Workmanship matters?

Who knew!

 

[Racer88]

Workmanship matters?

Who knew!

Well, we've got anti-gun activists, anti-freedom pundits, Fudds, and anti-constitution politicians including the "big guy," who vocally insist and mendaciously claim that "anyone without any training or skill can build one in 30 minutes." It takes me 2 - 3 hours just to finish the RSA channel. Not that ease / difficulty has ANY bearing on exercising our 2A Rights. So, why is it that they LIE about it? Hmmmmm???

Here's a factory finished (and serialized) P80 frame on the left vs my 80% P80 frame on the right.

Another one of my 80% frames:

But this is what we also see "out there" with questions, "Why won't my build cycle?"

A recent anti-2A article I read falsely claimed that building one of these required only that ONE hole be drilled:

In some cases, a ghost gun buyer can build a working gun after drilling a single additional hole in the kit’s frame.

The Supreme Court’s very brief, very revealing new decision about guns, explained

Why the Supreme Court just smacked down one of the judiciary’s worst GOP partisans.

www.vox.com

This article was FULL of fallacious claims about privately made firearms (PMFs).

 

[Deepwoods]

I'd say remove the comp.
Throw in the factory #17 spring.
Grab some +P rounds.
Shoot it. Break it in well.
Until it shoots reliably with standard ammo.
Then try it with the comp.

Even racking the slide a bunch of times can do the trick.
Once that fire reliably, then revisit the comp. I'd say that's the best course when troubleshooting in this scenario.

Had a P80. I had to keep shaving things down.
Racked the hell out of it and it worked.
Got rid of it and went with a serialized P80. Now that just hangs on the wall. Never shot it.

Thanks all for the additional input.

This is basically what I am going to do. I ordered a kit with a few color coded springs, because the various springs I did have fell into a big jumble and I pulling my hair out trying to assess which ones are what weight. So I am starting over.

Once the springs arrive, I'll work more methodically with the various spring/ comp/ no comp options.

This had been a "wall gun" for a while; I was perfectly happy with my 2011s. But then all the unused Glock magazines got to me... A Platypus is now a viable solution for that.

 

[Deepwoods]

In case any of you having been biting nails awaiting this story's conclusion...

I put in a different recoil spring and rod, picked a 15lbs spring and it cycles fine. I ran out of 115 gr, and I have a feeling it might hiccup with that, but with a few 124gr commercial loads it was fine.