Gunsmithing Go-to for high end files?

[HSNARC]

I’m at a point in life where it has become worth it to try and get the best possible tools money can buy, especially hand tools.

A few years back I bought a big Pferd brand (German made) flat file with weird square teeth that don’t look like they’d do anything but grate cheese, but it cuts like crazy. It takes “curls” of steel or chips like a sharp lathe bit rather than scratching the surface like sandpaper. It leaves a nice ish finish, but it’s way too big and aggressive for most stuff.

The only place I can find that brand is Amazon and it’s difficult to judge quality/cut size without holding a tool in person.

I have some made in India Nicholson’s and china’s best that have collected over the years. The nicholsons work but they gouge/scratch rather than “cut” it seems.

What brand do the guys who use files professionally go with?

 

[shoobe01]

I don't have this money myself, have gotten by with mostly a random collection of things inherited, and it does from what I see and hear, seem that old Nicholson is not new, I like my old ones. This seems to be the usual, old were all made by one old man in a factory in Indiana, new are outsourced to two different overseas factories which vary in QC. Some are okay, some not so much. (ETA: also have an old Diamond (brand not material) file, and an old Master Mechanic US made that seems to be something good as a rebrand only).

Also have a set of mini (not micro, sort of half sized instead) Bassoli I really like. Italian made in the old way, and I bought them in Italy, but cannot find out if they are beloved generally for metal cutting as they are only discussed for their farrier rasps etc where they are the absolute go-to top-end brand if you need to file horse hooves ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pferd, Simonds and Grobet are the GOOD file brands, but I've never bothered to buy one (or been able to inherit one). Though I really should I guess.

The shape you have is the "chip breaker" style, more specifically the chip breaker channels. I think they make varying widths of this, but it helps the cut because each tooth cuts individually to make a nice little chip, instead of trying to peel wide swath of metal.

 

[secondofangle2]

Diamond files

And Chinese ones are ok. They’re consumables

 

[HSNARC]

Diamond files

And Chinese ones are ok. They’re consumables

I have a few harbor freight diamond grit sharpening stone with the plastic block peeled off. They work great for taking out scratch marks and cutting hardened stuff, but they can’t move a lot of metal.

 

[Makinchips208]

The Stihl brand flat files work pretty good. they probably are a rebrand.
Made in Swiss or Sweden? I’ll update that tonight.

 

[secondofangle2]

Before I got my Tormek machines, I used to sharpen axes, made out of very hard steel with these and they removed material much better than regular steel files, but I never used a German one I was using Nicholson files and I would go through the Nickelson files quickly, dulling them to the point where they wouldn’t remove material from the ax.

These diamond files work darn good especially for the price

8'' inch Diamond Coated File Flat Style Grit 120 Needle Board File Filling Tool Hand Tool for Grinding on Glass, Stone, Ceramic, Marble, Rock, Bone
https://a.co/d/e29dspR

 

[J. W.]

Glardon-Vallorbe Swiss-made

Nicholson, but only the USA-made (getting harder to find).

If it says China on it, odds are it’s only a case-hardened file-shaped object.

 

[Ledzep]

Grobet, Italian. I bought a few sets several years back and they've held up very well.

 

[Marinevet1]

Good tools aren't cheap. cheap tools aren't good..............

 

[Fig]

I don't have this money myself, have gotten by with mostly a random collection of things inherited, and it does from what I see and hear, seem that old Nicholson is not new, I like my old ones. This seems to be the usual, old were all made by one old man in a factory in Indiana, new are outsourced to two different overseas factories which vary in QC. Some are okay, some not so much.

Also have a set of mini (not micro, sort of half sized instead) Bassoli I really like. Italian made in the old way, and I bought them in Italy, but cannot find out if they are beloved generally for metal cutting as they are only discussed for their farrier rasps etc where they are the absolute go-to top-end brand if you need to file horse hooves ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pferd, Simonds and Grobet are the GOOD file brands, but I've never bothered to buy one (or been able to inherit one). Though I really should I guess.

The shape you have is the "chip breaker" style, more specifically the chip breaker channels. I think they make varying widths of this, but it helps the cut because each tooth cuts individually to make a nice little chip, instead of trying to peel wide swath of metal.

Honestly, there is absolutely no need to spend that kind of money on a bespoke French file. The Nicholson's I've heard aren't what they were, and are no longer worth it, but you better be making a living with them to spend $275 for a single file, or $1,800 for a set of files. The only guy I know who has Grobet files hand carves burl stocks. I guess there are some high end custom cabinet makers who it might be worth it for, but for any casual user it's burning your money. Sometimes "The Best" is an utter waste of money, and I would put files in that category for sure.

 

[lariat]

Good files are worth the money. I know, I use them every single day in the shop on metal. The ones that dull quickly are not worth my time. Pferd are good. They have all types of files that you need and don't need.

OP, take a look and see if they have they file you want in a less aggressive cut.

PFERD Tools – TRUST BLUE

us.pferd.com

 

[shoobe01]

Honestly, there is absolutely no need to spend that kind of money on a bespoke French file. The Nicholson's I've heard aren't what they were, and are no longer worth it, but you better be making a living with them to spend $275 for a single file, or $1,800 for a set of files. The only guy I know who has Grobet files hand carves burl stocks. I guess there are some high end custom cabinet makers who it might be worth it for, but for any casual user it's burning your money. Sometimes "The Best" is an utter waste of money, and I would put files in that category for sure.

Oh wow, I had been looking at (and not buying) $80 instead of $6-18 files. Never considered multi-hundred dollars, didn't know these went that high.

Are they legit that expensive, in their home countries, or is it the scarcity as imports?

 

[ACard]

Grobet files are very good

 

[lariat]

A little more color to this may help: it isn't just the cost of a file. It is the steel, the temper, the profile, the tooth cut and how it is used. If you take a cheap Nicholson file vs a quality one and run them side by side (properly) the quality files are going to last much longer. That can translate into years of use. Now if you take a file that is expensive and price out the cost of each stroke across the life of the file you will find that for most files the cost may be more than a cheap file, but it really isn't that much. A good file is just a dream to use. A cheap file will come with uneven teeth, leave gashes in the work, etc. They really are a pain. I understand why people use them; my beef is with the people who make them, especially finishing files. A bad cheap file can take what could be a zen moment and turn it into a nightmare, especially when you are relying upon the file to do finish dimensions, whether it is a rifle or a leg on Momma's coffee table.

All my comments above are totally dependent upon an individual knowing how to run a file correctly for the task at hand.

 

[carbonbased]

Tinmantech.com carries a number of good files. Tend to be auto-oriented.

Files, Rasps, Brushes & Holders for Sheetmetal

TM Technologies: Tools, Sheet Metal Shaping Machines, Gas Welding Supplies, Articles & lWorkshops for Better Metalworking

www.tinmantech.com

 

[J. W.]

I’ve been bladesmithing for 25 yrs or so. Back before I had a belt grinder, I used to draw-file A LOT. Works like a dream (pre-hardening of course), leaves a nice satiny 320-grit-like finish with smooth flat surfaces. I still utilize that technique on occasion. Try it with a cheap file and you’ll have some patches on the file that cut and some that want to skate, or you’ll gouge the crap out of your work with the chips the crappy teeth hold onto. Which is another point. Even with a good file, you need to clean your teeth out with a couple swipes on a file card or a few sharp taps against the bench after every few strokes.

ETA: also, don’t let ‘em get rusty.

 

[Bigfatcock]

I buy NOS Nicholson files or Corradi files. I get good use out of them and they leave nice finishes.

Boggs can sharpen your files if they stop playing nice.

I chalk my files during use and brush frequently.

 

[carbonbased]

I chalk my files during use and brush frequently.

A trick I use to keep the chalk handy (and not all over the place) is I use a teachers chalk holder. Kind of like a lead holder, but for standard chalkboard chalk.

 

[carbonbased]

Also, a great resource for all things tool-related is the garagejournal.com forum. Love that place.

 

[Yondering]

A little more color to this may help: it isn't just the cost of a file. It is the steel, the temper, the profile, the tooth cut and how it is used. If you take a cheap Nicholson file vs a quality one and run them side by side (properly) the quality files are going to last much longer.

That "properly" is another side of this worth mentioning - it disgusts me how many mechanics and self professed craftsmen scrub their files back and forth both directions across a part. (We're talking normal files here, not diamond stones or specialty stuff made for cutting both directions.) Files should be used in the cut direction only, never drag the file backwards over the work. It dulls files quickly, even high quality stuff depending on the hardness of the work piece. No point in buying high end files if one is going to do that.

 

[Brym427]

I have some matco ones that are pretty good and when i wear one out it gets warrantied

 

[matthias]

That "properly" is another side of this worth mentioning - it disgusts me how many mechanics and self professed craftsmen scrub their files back and forth both directions across a part. (We're talking normal files here, not diamond stones or specialty stuff made for cutting both directions.) Files should be used in the cut direction only, never drag the file backwards over the work. It dulls files quickly, even high quality stuff depending on the hardness of the work piece. No point in buying high end files if one is going to do that.

That is what I was thought as well. But fireball tool has an interesting test he did with some automated machines that makes a guy think. I will continue to use the method of lifting on the return stroke , interesting none the less.

 

[Fig]

I rest my case.

A little more color to this may help: it isn't just the cost of a file. It is the steel, the temper, the profile, the tooth cut and how it is used. If you take a cheap Nicholson file vs a quality one and run them side by side (properly) the quality files are going to last much longer. That can translate into years of use. Now if you take a file that is expensive and price out the cost of each stroke across the life of the file you will find that for most files the cost may be more than a cheap file, but it really isn't that much. A good file is just a dream to use. A cheap file will come with uneven teeth, leave gashes in the work, etc. They really are a pain. I understand why people use them; my beef is with the people who make them, especially finishing files. A bad cheap file can take what could be a zen moment and turn it into a nightmare, especially when you are relying upon the file to do finish dimensions, whether it is a rifle or a leg on Momma's coffee table.

All my comments above are totally dependent upon an individual knowing how to run a file correctly for the task at hand.

Kind of my point. I have a couple of reconditioned Hilti power tools I got cheap. These reman tools are way, way better than any new Dewalt or Milwaukee on my shelf. They’re also twice as expensive, and would probably last three times as long. Thing is, I’m not a carpenter. I don’t use them every day. The box store tools will probably last me the rest of my life. What am I paying for? So that some stranger gets a steal at a garage sale when I’m dead? Hell, I’ve bought stuff from Harbor Freight BECAUSE I only plan on using it a few times.
I like nice tools too. If money were no object I’d have the best of everything. It is an object, so I buy stuff intelligently, and based on projected use.

I have a Meisrerstuck pen that’s in my pocket every day. I use it many, many times per day. Who is going to pay that kind of money for a pen? Someone who has one in their hand all day every day and likes nice things (truth be told it was a gift, fuck paying that much for a fucking pen!).

​

 

[secondofangle2]

Each time anyone of us dies, some jack wagon stranger is going to get some sweet deals at the garage sales, auctions and estate sales

 

[shoobe01]

I rest my case.

Kind of my point. I have a couple of reconditioned Hilti power tools I got cheap. These reman tools are way, way better than any new Dewalt or Milwaukee on my shelf. They’re also twice as expensive, and would probably last three times as long. Thing is, I’m not a carpenter. I don’t use them every day. The box store tools will probably last me the rest of my life. What am I paying for? So that some stranger gets a steal at a garage sale when I’m dead? Hell, I’ve bought stuff from Harbor Freight BECAUSE I only plan on using it a few times.
I like nice tools too. If money were no object I’d have the best of everything. It is an object, so I buy stuff intelligently, and based on projected use.

I have a Meisrerstuck pen that’s in my pocket every day. I use it many, many times per day. Who is going to pay that kind of money for a pen? Someone who has one in their hand all day every day and likes nice things (truth be told it was a gift, fuck paying that much for a fucking pen!).

​

I know this math precisely for some stuff closer to my day job. Some hospitals used to use ruggedized laptops or tablets; when they get splashed with blood they aren't ruined but DO become a bio-hazard so some IT guy with extra contamination training has to take a day to take it apart and wash down all the bits, because: $3000 computer. Now they use iPads and even at $500 each, the rate of getting contaminated is such that it is cheaper to throw them in contaminated waste and get another off the shelf then clean them.

I have seen consumer grade (e.g. B&D Firestorm) tools in factories, assume that they simply get dropped, etc. enough it's not worth repairing expensive tools over getting good-enough tools and tossing them.

Same for us, or most consumers. If it's good enough for your work type and use rate: it's good enough. Less so things like cut quality, but if it's longevity, how much do most people use a metal file?

 

[lariat]

Each time anyone of us dies, some jack wagon stranger is going to get some sweet deals at the garage sales, auctions and estate sales

And I bet most won’t know the quality of what they got or how to use it.

 

[ScottVA]

Bahco

 

[Yondering]

That is what I was thought as well. But fireball tool has an interesting test he did with some automated machines that makes a guy think. I will continue to use the method of lifting on the return stroke , interesting none the less.

Eh, I’ve seen the real world results too many times, and even did it myself as a kid not knowing any better. That holds a lot more weight than any “test” someone came up with to make you think otherwise.

I’m a test and development engineer by trade, have been for many years, and can say for certain that it’s really easy to conduct a “test” that looks good but gives flawed results. Most consumer testing on YouTube falls into that category, or worse since a lot are obviously flawed from the start. The test itself has to be evaluated; if it gives different results than the real world, then you don’t just accept those results, you go back and figure out what you did wrong and try again.

 

[LeftyJason]

Eh, I’ve seen the real world results too many times, and even did it myself as a kid not knowing any better. That holds a lot more weight than any “test” someone came up with to make you think otherwise.

I’m a test and development engineer by trade, have been for many years, and can say for certain that it’s really easy to conduct a “test” that looks good but gives flawed results. Most consumer testing on YouTube falls into that category, or worse since a lot are obviously flawed from the start. The test itself has to be evaluated; if it gives different results than the real world, then you don’t just accept those results, you go back and figure out what you did wrong and try again.

Did you check out the video?

 

[Yondering]

Did you check out the video?

Nah. And don't see any need to watch something that by your description attempts to "make me think" about whether something I've seen first hand can really happen. Seems like a waste of time for no benefit.

It's not a matter of theory, or thinking it "might" happen - dragging a file backwards can definitely dull the file. It won't always, because it depends on the material being filed, but it can and does happen. With evidence showing that it does happen, any test attempting to prove otherwise is a waste of time.

Here's a file my son damaged a couple years ago when he was learning. You can see the shiny drag marks, and feel the difference with a finger. Zooming in with a loop shows exactly what can happen to files , machine cutters, and knives when dragging a sharp edge backwards - the sharp edges are rolled over. In this case, there's no doubt about what happened; I saw him do it, and the file was fine before that - he rubbed it back and forth over the handle end of a knife blank while trying to fit a set of scales. No big deal for a kid like him in middle school learning how to use tools, but grown men and especially self professed craftsmen should know better.