I'm glad you got it cleaned up & running. The other thing I would have checked is the headspace. If it's tight, you will probably have to clean more frequently. I've seen that problem with NiB coated bolts in 5.56 guns.
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Go-To Mods for reliable AR10 Platform?
- Thread starter shields shtr
- Start date
i like reel oil and marine grease,
salt water reels are obviously torturous and get super hot and operate at sub zero temps.
also reel oil has additives to prevent corrosion so good protection as well.
you can get lucas marine grease for a fraction of the price of their extreme gun grease, and it is likely the same thing.
salt water reels are obviously torturous and get super hot and operate at sub zero temps.
also reel oil has additives to prevent corrosion so good protection as well.
you can get lucas marine grease for a fraction of the price of their extreme gun grease, and it is likely the same thing.
Glad it is running. Great advice in the replies.
Strictly speaking, your gun is not an AR10. Only Armalite makes AR10's. The reason I bring that up is because as mentioned there is a lot of variance in the the AR10 clones. Most of them are out of spec and as a result, they can be very finicky. The adjustable gas block is a must have. This is because you can compensate for an out of spec gas port and tube, which is a common problem.
Just out of curiosity, you might want to check how far your gas tube enters the chamber. It should be dead center of the cam pin cut out. Too short (an AR15 tube) and it lessens the timing. Too long and it will increase the timing. Manufactures have been known to drill the hole both over and undersized and in the wrong spot. If your gas block is up against the barrel shoulder, chances are it is in the wrong spot. That adjustable gas block will not only will help compensate for those common mistakes but has the added benefit of having the gun operate in different environments.
One more thing to add that wasn't mentioned are your gas rings. That is another common problem and an easy fix. Check you BCG as you would an AR and make sure the bolt passes the gravity test. I would as a matter of course replace them with with McFarlans. And another thumbs up on running it wet.
Strictly speaking, your gun is not an AR10. Only Armalite makes AR10's. The reason I bring that up is because as mentioned there is a lot of variance in the the AR10 clones. Most of them are out of spec and as a result, they can be very finicky. The adjustable gas block is a must have. This is because you can compensate for an out of spec gas port and tube, which is a common problem.
Just out of curiosity, you might want to check how far your gas tube enters the chamber. It should be dead center of the cam pin cut out. Too short (an AR15 tube) and it lessens the timing. Too long and it will increase the timing. Manufactures have been known to drill the hole both over and undersized and in the wrong spot. If your gas block is up against the barrel shoulder, chances are it is in the wrong spot. That adjustable gas block will not only will help compensate for those common mistakes but has the added benefit of having the gun operate in different environments.
One more thing to add that wasn't mentioned are your gas rings. That is another common problem and an easy fix. Check you BCG as you would an AR and make sure the bolt passes the gravity test. I would as a matter of course replace them with with McFarlans. And another thumbs up on running it wet.
I have a recently purchased DB-10 6.5 Creedmoor too. It hates (with a deep and abiding passion), a certain brand of 125 grain round with "whitetail" in the name. My 5 round magazine will misfeed about 3 rounds out of 5 of that round. My 20 round magazine will misfeed about 1 to 2 rounds out of 20.
Out of curiosity, did you use the same brand and type of ammo on your "test" the other day? AR-10 platforms are well known for favoring some rounds, and having a rough relationship with others. These days it can be difficult to find a specific round which your AR-10 has a deep and abiding love for. I had to burn up about 60 rounds of the troublesome rounds today (I was using them to rough zero a scope, and occasional jam would be less of an issue than hunting). Three of the rounds became too damaged from Misfeed to use, and one of them failed to fire from the impact of the firing pin. Needless to say, it absolutely confirmed my Diamondback Creedmoor dislikes that round. For the record, the rounds are ejected at the 4 to 5 O'Clock position as expected.
It moderately annoyed me that this AR-10 got some rather favorable reviews when it was first released, AND the currently sold version has changed some features which were attractive in the video reviews from a couple years ago. (It now has a less desirable pistol grip, less precise fit on hand guard, less effective muzzle brake, etc.
Out of curiosity, did you use the same brand and type of ammo on your "test" the other day? AR-10 platforms are well known for favoring some rounds, and having a rough relationship with others. These days it can be difficult to find a specific round which your AR-10 has a deep and abiding love for. I had to burn up about 60 rounds of the troublesome rounds today (I was using them to rough zero a scope, and occasional jam would be less of an issue than hunting). Three of the rounds became too damaged from Misfeed to use, and one of them failed to fire from the impact of the firing pin. Needless to say, it absolutely confirmed my Diamondback Creedmoor dislikes that round. For the record, the rounds are ejected at the 4 to 5 O'Clock position as expected.
It moderately annoyed me that this AR-10 got some rather favorable reviews when it was first released, AND the currently sold version has changed some features which were attractive in the video reviews from a couple years ago. (It now has a less desirable pistol grip, less precise fit on hand guard, less effective muzzle brake, etc.
The thing that is tough about Large frame AR's is that since there really is not an industry accepted standard, like has been adopted with the AR15, a lot of companies spec out there rifles using somebody elses work as an example, especially when you get to the lower end of the budget range. Thats not to say one cant QC their work and have a functional rifle.
I understand that not everybody has the budget to drop money on a Knights, but I think That for a few hundred dollars more than what is often spent on some of these budget brands, one may be able to get a more functional rifle
I understand that not everybody has the budget to drop money on a Knights, but I think That for a few hundred dollars more than what is often spent on some of these budget brands, one may be able to get a more functional rifle
I used 3 different kinds. Two types of Hornady, and some Winchester stuff. After a thorough cleaning and re-assembly, they all fed well with no failures. I still don't think 60 rounds is much of a cross section, but it is better than nothing.
You are 100% right. Most frustratingly, budget wasn't really the issue. I was just being a dumb ass and hoping I would be the guy who gets the budget model and it "works just as good" as a more vetted rifle. I have a lot of hobbies and I know that this is almost never the case, no matter what discipline or hobby.
Well we've all done it, and most of us will do it again with something, if not a rifle...
I prefer to build mine only because I can then pick the individual parts I want to use, BUT, there's a lot to be said for buying a quality AR-10 or variant where another trusted company has already figured out "this and that" about these various parts and how they are combined.
I think many forget that when you buy a "JP, or Knights" ect... you aren't just buying the rifle as a sum of the parts... you are buying Those parts being formulated and tested to work together in that configuration. You are buying "not having to do all the headache (some of us call it hobby) of working out the design elements and function of the various parts working together " .
This is why the JP's of the Rifle Manufacturers get what they get for their guns, beyond the guns having quality parts.
In my case, it was simple availability. Most of the highly desirable Creedmoor AR-10 rifles are simply sold out and unavailable. I think most people feel that if you spend North of $1500 dollars for a rifle, it should feed, accurately fire, and eject without drama. I do not feel that expectation is excessive. I need more stick time with the gun at the range to figure out which ammo it likes the most. The 140ish grain ammo seems to feed and eject without drama.
I'm still in awe at the people they manage to wrangle into the 'buy this gun oil' wagon even after all these years.
me too
I am always shaking my head at them
Mobil 1 is all anyone will ever need. Marketing is strong with a lot of people and you can tell by how they describe their rifle. I say my 308 but the guy with, my mega upper lower, radian ch, etc etc...lol
great post
too many here ragging on the guy for going budget. I'm not sure why as we've seen high end sticks have issues. Price doesn't mean quality when the product is commoditized. If people don't understand that, that's their problem
sometimes it's nice to build a nice, lower cost, option to beat the fk out of because FEW here are driving their rigs (or should I say safe queens) hard. No need to be judgemental
I've used Mobil 1 for years. I got sidetracked along the way at times with 'too good to be true' things and arguments down to the nano metalurgical level of being better like Cherry Balmz, but the cost vs performance over a quart of Mobile1 just isn't there.
The ONLY other oil I have is the one specifically mentioned in the M249/MK46 FM for my MK46 that I can't remember the name of. I did that just to see if this was a 'one off' thing where it was better for just the MK46 because its a finnicky little bitch and the oil seems thinner.
eta - CLP is G96.
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According to Chris Bartocci these are pics of actual rifles submitted for the XM110 trials. Screen shots taken from one of his videos on the Armalite rifles.
I don’t know the full specs of the rifles. I have no official documentation of their performance during the trials.
ETA: In this video, ( ), he mentions JP Enterprises competed as well. I’ve never seen any information on the JP Submission but would love to if anyone has any or could direct me on the right path.
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As long as the shooter learns something from the choices its all good. At the end of the day, that shooter really needs to come to a conclusion on what does or does not work for them. Buying an APC, and dropping an LPVO/w offset RMR into a 1.97 height mount and call it a long range rifle is just as silly as somebody buying an PSA AR10 and saying its just as good as a Kac.
I am personally waiting for people to start mounting their offset RMR's on the left side of the main optic, so that they would not need to rotate the rifle for use. I am sure some insta trainer will call it a modified binden aiming concept or some shit like that. More tactical Yo!!!
Rumor has it that Costa did this once, and dialed back his LPVO to 1x and actually gained the ability to divide by zero.
While I do indeed like my higher end stuff, I do have a PSA freedom line, 20 inch A4 that I think is a blast to shoot and seems solid from the rounds I put though it.
Not that I know of. They are both comparable and are both a one piece design. There might be a variance in manufacturing dimensions. I know guys have had luck with both. Since they are relatively cheap, you might want to try both and see which one (if any) does better on your particular bolt. As long as it supports the BCG standing up, you should be good to go.
I haven’t read all the comments in the post, but I’ve seen more then one person mention getting rid of Frog Lube. That shit is complete trash and will gum up anything. I was a fan of it for a while and was slowly switching all my guns over to it started running into trouble when it started getting cold, but I held on hope until I took out our M107A1 and went to chamber a round and it had pretty much turned to glue. Striped it off all my guns switched over to Slip 2000 and never looked back.
Also if you want to keep your large frame AR reliable, buy a quality factory one and leave it the hell alone. I’ve fixed way to many 308 and 6.5 gas guns because people wanted this or that on them. They aren’t 556 AR’s they are not as forgiving and the parts spec’s are not the same across the board.
Also if you want to keep your large frame AR reliable, buy a quality factory one and leave it the hell alone. I’ve fixed way to many 308 and 6.5 gas guns because people wanted this or that on them. They aren’t 556 AR’s they are not as forgiving and the parts spec’s are not the same across the board.
i think people just like to think they are treating their guns better?
personally never bought "lube" for a gun except CLP, which i don't really use as lube but more for cleaning.
i got a sample of lucas extreme grease with my p229 and looked it up to find it is probably the same thing as their marine grease, at 10x the price.
of course, what do you expect from a fucking poor. i'm too cheap to buy bullshit snake oil.
What's Really in Gun Cleaners and Lube? - Real Gun Reviews
In almost every gun forum I’ve participated in, practically every question or discussion regarding firearm cleaning and lubrication products quickly descends to the same inevitable result: a stream of “sounding off” about what each shooter uses personally, an explanation of why they love it...
www.realgunreviews.com
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Easier to search for if it is spelled right. Here:
Tech Tip: Fit One-Piece McFarland™ Gas Rings in Your AR « Daily Bulletin
If you use an AR-platform rifle for varminting, multi-gun matches, or Service Rifle competition, one simple upgrade you can make to enhance reliability is to replace the mil-spec gas rings with a one-piece McFarland™ bolt gas ring.
I use Tri-flow on everything. Work and play.
www.triflowlubricants.com
Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant Aerosol – Triflow Lubricants
Tri-Flow Lubricants, Greases & Degreasers are the preferred choice of biking enthusiasts everywhere. And our new website was designed specifically for you - so you could easily find the product you need to keep you going.
www.triflowlubricants.com
it is amazing how many people struggle with sticky locks for years that can be fixed with a squirt.I use Tri-flow on everything. Work and play.
Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant Aerosol – Triflow Lubricants
Tri-Flow Lubricants, Greases & Degreasers are the preferred choice of biking enthusiasts everywhere. And our new website was designed specifically for you - so you could easily find the product you need to keep you going.
I carry a tube of graphite in my tool bag just for that.
1 tube will last years
Get the heavy SCS for the buffer. That gun needs to be dripping wet when you shoot it or the carrier will gum up, especially with that frog lube shit, and you'll get bolt bounce and light strikes and that puts you a short hair from an out of battery detonation.
Clean everything, field strip and clean the bolt and carrier, then lube the fuck out of everything as you put it back together.
If you lock the bolt open and drop it the carrier should slam forward and lock in place immediately. If it bounces or does anything but lock closed you have more cleaning to do.
For several years I used Kroil for cold weather and never had any issues. I have changed over to CLP and haven't really hunted in below zero weather with it yet but don't anticipate any problems. Glad you got it figured out.
I think the reason most have issues with "Frog Lube" is that they don't follow the directions when applying it. (Though I don't know if the OP did or not). Aren't you supposed to use heat and wipe off the frog lube as the last step in the application of it? I don't use it but I'm pretty sure that's where some folks get tripped up with it and have things gum up in their guns.
That said, I still would use something else.
That said, I still would use something else.
I use very small amounts of copper Never Seize and Moly-Lit grease on some action parts. Never considered using Lock-Eze graphite but it does stand to reason.
If your wonder lube requires directions, you’re doing it wrong. A quart of Mobil 1 full synthetic is like $10 and is a lifetime of lube for many shooters.
I've still got a bottle of frog lube sitting around somewhere. MSRP is $20.99 for a 4 ounce bottle? FML.
On a side note, my GSP has vasculitis on her ears. If you don’t know what that is, it is a dry, cracked, thickened, bald patch of skin that starts on the very fringes and can spread across the entire ear fringe. Vets don’t know what causes it, but they think it is brought on by damage that leads to a loss of blood flow. If you’ve seen the ear fringes of a GSP, you know they are already really thin, so blood flow can’t be great to start. Anyway, the treatments that the vet gave weren’t working, but on a whim I started rubbing coconut oil into her ears, slowly softening, loosening, and eventually removing the dry dead skin. Now they look great and you can’t tell that last year at this time they looked like the upper 1/2 of each lad been burned in a house fire. I wonder if frog lube would work on that...
That's cool. I have an akita. He's my buddy. The ruff greens stuff works pretty well too and helps skin a lot if you need further help for your girl.
marketing is strong with the gun crowd. Just look at the 'my midlength is way softer than my carbine' to see this. it's funnyi think people just like to think they are treating their guns better?
personally never bought "lube" for a gun except CLP, which i don't really use as lube but more for cleaning.
i got a sample of lucas extreme grease with my p229 and looked it up to find it is probably the same thing as their marine grease, at 10x the price.
of course, what do you expect from a fucking poor. i'm too cheap to buy bullshit snake oil.
What's Really in Gun Cleaners and Lube? - Real Gun Reviews
In almost every gun forum I’ve participated in, practically every question or discussion regarding firearm cleaning and lubrication products quickly descends to the same inevitable result: a stream of “sounding off” about what each shooter uses personally, an explanation of why they love it...
As an update, managed to get 100 or so more rounds down the tube of my budget gasser. I found some hornady brass laying around and worked up some really mild handloads for it. I am only getting about 2700 fps with 130s, but I am getting pretty decent accuracy, about 3/4" MOA and...so far not another single failure to feed or operational issue. At the end of my shooting session yesterday I decided to let loose with a full 20 round mag at some steel at 700. I was trying to hit the target of course, but I was kind of interested in shooting at a faster cadence to see if the gun would jam. I managed to get through the mag pretty quickly, all rounds fed, and I even got a few hits on steel. I will say my gun was dirty as shit after that and my suppressor was pretty frickin hot! I gotta say these things are pretty fun when everything works well, although given the ammo situation I should probably slow my roll a little bit.
just hate the stupidity of people. No one can actually 'feel' the difference and to suggest you can shows how little about this you know. You being universal and not actually 'YOU". It's beyond retarded to think you can and say you do. Anyone with half a brain understands it's about setting up your rig and not the dwell time for 'feelz'
Hate to break it to you, but it's absolutely possible to feel the difference. And even more possible to see it in reticle movement. Then it's undeniable if you shoot in front of a grid with a camera rolling. Shoot a 5 round string as fast as you can on a big sheet of paper and measure the hit dispersion on target. I've done all that in the same day with the same rifle swapping from a 16" clgs to 16" mlgs to 16" intermediate to 16" rlgs and keeping all other parts the same. If you do that you will change your mind real fast on what can be felt.
Edit to add, you're kinda right, most people that don't care that much can't tell the difference. But if you are a serious competitor or just nerd out on rifle tuning the feeling is night and day different.
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no it's not, it's the dumbest most ill informed thing a person can say. dwell time is so miniscule that it's physically impossible to feel.
competitive shooting is vastly different and so many changes to a rig that it's not the dwell time people are feeling.
Never said it was dwell time that you feel. Pressure at the gas port is more likely the difference that you feel. But you do feel it. Have you tested it?
As another update...Took the rifle down to Texas for my annual ham slam. I was down there when TX was making national news on how cold and snowy it was. I did get in some shooting during those times, I actually shot a few hogs early in the am when it was about 8 degrees, which is pretty much unheard of down there. That isn't very extreme for where I live, but still pretty cold. I am actually happy to say the gun functioned flawlessly the entire time I was down there. I would say most of the shooting involved about one volley of 6-8 shots, but I did get in a few full mag dumps and things worked great. All my brass looked good and was pretty easy to find along a pretty darn consistent 3 o clock ejection pattern. Probably shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-120 rounds through it altogether.
I guess 2 things made all the difference in that particular platform.
1. Adjustable gas block
2. Different lube
Amazing to me how those small things made such a big difference. Basically went from being frustrated and angry to zero issues. I realize my rates of fire and relatively small sample size doesn't constitute it being "gucci" or get the seal of approval from the afficionado's on here, but I would have a tough time not recommending this rifle for hunting/plinking if the same performance could be achieved by utilizing the same things I did.
Now, of course I am obsessed with some of these larger frame gassers and am looking at going high end for the next one now that I have a little bit of a taste for it.
I guess 2 things made all the difference in that particular platform.
1. Adjustable gas block
2. Different lube
Amazing to me how those small things made such a big difference. Basically went from being frustrated and angry to zero issues. I realize my rates of fire and relatively small sample size doesn't constitute it being "gucci" or get the seal of approval from the afficionado's on here, but I would have a tough time not recommending this rifle for hunting/plinking if the same performance could be achieved by utilizing the same things I did.
Now, of course I am obsessed with some of these larger frame gassers and am looking at going high end for the next one now that I have a little bit of a taste for it.
