I can't decide which barrel to get. The Douglas, Krieger or the Bartlein? Is it worth the extra money to upgrade to the Bartlein or Krieger?
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Going to order a Compass Lake SPR upper
- Thread starter beaverpelt
- Start date
I'm not too picky on the gas system length. On their website they do offer the option for intermediate length gas on the Kreiger and Bartlein so if I went that route I would go with that.
Get the Compass Lake Krieger 18" Barrel with intermediate gas, 1.7.7 Twist, CLE Match Chamber or the Wylde chamber they both shoot lights out. You will not regret your purchase at all.
This is a Compass Lake 18" Krieger intermediate gas, fluted wylde chamber. Only thing I did different was run 9/16 threads versus 1/2 inch threads, I prefer to have a bit more meat at the end of my barrel.
Just ordered a Vltor MUR to use or send to Compass Lake to build on. What is the consensus on the Rainier Arms UM mod 2 SPR barrels?
CLE has had my Vltor upper receiver since January. Waiting for them get in a new batch of Bartleins to spin one up for me and install it. My specs are 17.9 inch, 1:7.7, intermediate gas, and CLE chamber.
Just my .02, but I've had every brand of barrel CLE has to offer and I can't tell the difference between Bartlein or Kreiger when it comes to small frame builds, but what I can say is that I've had two Bartlein Duds and zero issues with every Kreiger barrel I've had large or small... Just something to think about if you don't feel like waiting any longer for that Bartlein.
Jake
I was looking at the WOA SPR barrels and they have them in stock for $275. How do they compare to the CLE Kreiger barrels?
They are a quality budget barrel, but I've only had them from Brownells, CLE usually only has Criterion, Douglas, Bartlein and Krieger. A lot of it has to do with how clean CLE Chambers their barrels, but I've never had one that can hang with a Kreiger.
One thing I've noticed with the CLE Match or Wylde chamber is every barrel I get from them will shoot Black hills 77gr at 1/2 inch or less.
WOA and Criterion seem to need handloads and a little luck to achieve that.
If you've never done business with CLE you're in for a treat, CLE is kind of like The godfather of quality AR barrels they've been doing this for a very long time and their customer service outstanding.
I've been working with Frank for about a 1.5 on testing different barrels contours and how their harmonics come in to play. my most recent build I've done has been on a 16" Krieger with a modified SDM contour and the results have been phenomenal.
I've been working with Frank for about a 1.5 on testing different barrels contours and how their harmonics come in to play. my most recent build I've done has been on a 16" Krieger with a modified SDM contour and the results have been phenomenal.
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Thank you for your input. I think I will order the CLE Kreiger SPR barrel in 7 twist, intermediate gas, wylde chamber, matched bolt and the black duracoat option. I'll also order a gas block and have him pin and dimple the barrel for it.
Well shit. Now you got me thinking.
When I called and spoke with CLE (consistent with your comments, they were great on the phone) prior to ordering the barrel, Theresa put me on the phone with one of the techs to go over my build. One of the things I asked was: "Kreiger v.s Bartlein, which would you recommend for this SPR build?" The answer was "Either. The Barleins shoot pretty good." So, I took the understated nature of the comment as an endorsement of the Bartlein.
Theresa tells me the Bartleins should be in any day now. I'll give it another week. If they are not in, perhaps I'll switch to a Kreiger.
I do appreciate the input though. Thank you, Jake.
I have a compass lake 20” Bartlien and I couldn’t be more pleased with the purchase. It has a rifle length gas system and shoots lights out with a variety of factory ammo.
I got the 18" spr profile Bartlien, 1:7.7 with cle match chamber. Shoots great. 77gr Black Hill, Prime and FGMM all shoot excellent. Service is second to none as well.
CLE delivered my Bartlein 18" SPR upper on Monday. I provided them an upper, a GB, barrel nut for my rail, and a barrel wish list. They did the rest. And they were really fantastic to deal with. Paul even called me as he was machining the barrel to make some suggestions based on the fit between the barrel and the upper I had provided. Now to find some time to get to the range and shoot this thing before summer really sets in here......
Believe it or not, this experience is echoed in the benchrest world by quite a few shooters I've talked to. Not trying to shit on Bartlein at all, their stuff is state of the art and they make great barrels, but atleast a very successful BR gunsmith I've talked to says he thinks atleast sometimes the steel Bartlein uses might not be quite as good as Krieger's, and he believes a huge reason for a barrels accuracy is the steel quality. So I suppose take that for what its worth..
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+1 & nice shooting.
The one & only Kreiger that I have is w/o a doubt, my best barrel; no experience with Bartlein, but lots of competiters use them; Douglas can be very good but is more of a crap shoot..................don't know of anyone with a "bad" Kreiger.
But CLE is top shelf in every way & it would be a rare exception if you had any problem with their products or their service.
Don't sweat the rifle vs intermediate vs mid-length gas systems; with an AGB, all can be made to shoot similarly, but yes, gas port pressure will go up slightly as the length gets shorter, translating into some (small) level of port life reduction for the shorter systems, but again, the effect of that can be delayed by the AGB so not a real life issue for most people within "normal" barrel life.
MM
I don't think that there's a barrel manufacturing company that hasn't Shit The Bed one time or another. There are quite a few Barrel manufacturers out there that make quality Single Point Cut Barrels, but like a lot of people I'm stuck in my ways I stick with Bartlein or Krieger barrels, one of these days I'll try a Hawk Hill or a Brux.
I am not at all opposed to quality or expensive gear. That being said, there is a reason the Navy went with Douglas and it was not price. After extensive testing, the Douglas barrels clearly had higher velocity, longer accuracy life and peak accuracy was as good or better than the others. If you are only shooting for targets the velocity makes little difference. If you are hunting with it, the difference shows.
That was a long time ago and Douglas has only held it's popularity because Crane started pushing out the MK12 and it's variances with the SOCOM community, which in turn has made it popular with civilians because of history same as the MK110. Douglas barrels makes decent Button Cut Rifled Barrel but is far from the industry standard of today.
Another thing I'd like to add.. again I really hate for this to sound like I'm shitting on Bartlein. But I feel like a metric shit ton of folks look at the "What the Pro's Use" thing re: barrels, and Bartlein tops that list. Keep in mind that list is for PRS practical positions - type shooting. A better indication to what barrels are at the tip top in quality/consistency/accuracy(at least currently..things change obviously), is Benchrest equipment lists, short range and 600/1000yd BR. Obviously the 600/1000yd BR stuff is a LOT closer to what we do and which brands/components are hot right now and what you'll want to keep a eye out for.
F-Class.... same thing, many I've talked to prefer Krieger/Brux as they're more consistent barrel-to-barrel, no duds, yada yada yada... With that said, 1000yd F-Open requires SERIOUS accuracy to be in the top ranks, BUT when you get right down to it, benchrest is and always will be the standard/measuring stick/etc when it comes to pure precision/accuracy.
I feel I must reiterate I really hope ain't coming across as shitting on Bartlein, Mr Frank Green is AWESOME(!) and they're a great supporter of our sport as well as other disciplines. Their products are AWESOME(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)... if they weren't, Mr. Tony Boyer(the hands down greatest Benchrest shooter currently living, and probably of all time - ie the Michael Jordan of BR per se) wouldn't use Bartlein's barrels. WITH THE CAVEAT that he stacks the odds in his favor, he'll buy many many barrels from many(if not basically all) barrel companies(eg: most recently I think he used Hawk Hill or Hart's new 5R??? Can't quite remember).. ie in his prime/heyday, and before the Benchrest world accepted/caught on to cut-rifled barrels(think Obermeyer being just about pretty much the only game in town), Shilen was pretty much at the top of the heap... LOL Tony Boyer would buy like 20-30 Select Match's at one time, and throw out 15 or more of them). And Mr Boyer aint the only one, there are several fantastic BR shooters that run Bartleins.
Keep in mind Mr. Boyer is a 100/200/300yd BR shooter(short range Benchrest) though. As said, the 600/1000yd Benchrest equipment lists give a better indication of who's barrels we'll want to look at to stack the odds in our favor. Bartlein makes up a good proportion no doubt. Don't overlook button barrels either... IMO if I was looking for a barrel ATM, I'd take a look at Rock Creek's new 4-H rifled barrels, Krieger, Mullerworks(button or cut), James Lederer, Brux, Broughton, and no sir I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Bartlein either, in no particular order. Also Proof's steel barrels!!!!! Been hearing good things about their steel barrels from that same successful BR gunsmith mentioned above, however their options/variety are limited as hell and they're definitely not as established of a choice as the others.
ETA: I been talking about bolt gun barrels here. As bigjake said, Douglas barrels are GREAT!!! Though quite a few folks get the feeling that 6mm and .30cal are where Douglas shines.. Also, according to Padom and MANY others, the Shilen/Rainier Ultramatch's were very very good, and I'm sure a Shilen Select Match still a fantastic choice for a gas gun barrel, along with Rainier's Ultramatch Gen 2, whatever button barrel supplier they're currently using(??)......
And
F-Class.... same thing, many I've talked to prefer Krieger/Brux as they're more consistent barrel-to-barrel, no duds, yada yada yada... With that said, 1000yd F-Open requires SERIOUS accuracy to be in the top ranks, BUT when you get right down to it, benchrest is and always will be the standard/measuring stick/etc when it comes to pure precision/accuracy.
I feel I must reiterate I really hope ain't coming across as shitting on Bartlein, Mr Frank Green is AWESOME(!) and they're a great supporter of our sport as well as other disciplines. Their products are AWESOME(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)... if they weren't, Mr. Tony Boyer(the hands down greatest Benchrest shooter currently living, and probably of all time - ie the Michael Jordan of BR per se) wouldn't use Bartlein's barrels. WITH THE CAVEAT that he stacks the odds in his favor, he'll buy many many barrels from many(if not basically all) barrel companies(eg: most recently I think he used Hawk Hill or Hart's new 5R??? Can't quite remember).. ie in his prime/heyday, and before the Benchrest world accepted/caught on to cut-rifled barrels(think Obermeyer being just about pretty much the only game in town), Shilen was pretty much at the top of the heap... LOL Tony Boyer would buy like 20-30 Select Match's at one time, and throw out 15 or more of them). And Mr Boyer aint the only one, there are several fantastic BR shooters that run Bartleins.
Keep in mind Mr. Boyer is a 100/200/300yd BR shooter(short range Benchrest) though. As said, the 600/1000yd Benchrest equipment lists give a better indication of who's barrels we'll want to look at to stack the odds in our favor. Bartlein makes up a good proportion no doubt. Don't overlook button barrels either... IMO if I was looking for a barrel ATM, I'd take a look at Rock Creek's new 4-H rifled barrels, Krieger, Mullerworks(button or cut), James Lederer, Brux, Broughton, and no sir I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Bartlein either, in no particular order. Also Proof's steel barrels!!!!! Been hearing good things about their steel barrels from that same successful BR gunsmith mentioned above, however their options/variety are limited as hell and they're definitely not as established of a choice as the others.
ETA: I been talking about bolt gun barrels here. As bigjake said, Douglas barrels are GREAT!!! Though quite a few folks get the feeling that 6mm and .30cal are where Douglas shines.. Also, according to Padom and MANY others, the Shilen/Rainier Ultramatch's were very very good, and I'm sure a Shilen Select Match still a fantastic choice for a gas gun barrel, along with Rainier's Ultramatch Gen 2, whatever button barrel supplier they're currently using(??)......
And
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i just put an upper together with a Rock Creek barrel, just to see what I will see..............haven't shot it yet but I'm hoping for good things, maybe not quite Kreiger level, but hopefully close.
MM
MM
I had a M24 clone that would shoot 5 shot groups into a quarter sized circle at 200yds almost every time! It had a Rock Creek barrel. I'm a believer. Next barrel I put into a bolt gun will be another Rock Creek.
Forgetful Coyote is quite right, as is Bigjake. BR is where you go if you wan to see the N'th degree. But for small frame you cannot go wrong with the cut barrels there are. I just bought a Rock Creek cut after hearing really good things, but Bartlein or Kreiger would have done just fine too.
I don't think CLE would offer a bad choice, but I think a difference of Douglas vs Krieger that I've asked people who build rifles is that the cut rifled barrels seem to hold accuracy longer and then sharply drop of, where the button rifles loose accuracy spread out slowly over a longer a time period. I think Krieger vs Bartlein is a preference question. I've heard great things about both.
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