Has anyone used Gordons Reloading Tool yet and compared it to Quickload? It seems to be a much much more up to date user interface. It's free...so maybe some of you can try it out...and see how it compares. It looks cool...but is it accurate?
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Gordons Reloading Tool Software
- Thread starter b2lee
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Looks like they're in the process of collecting information/data. Lord knows QL needs a fair amount of tweaking to get useful information out the other end.
They get some bonus points for making the effort to support something besides Windows; if I can get the Linux version working on my Chromebook (via crostini) that would be *awesome*.
Given the recent passing of Ed Dillon (proprietor of Neconos.com, US distributor of QL), I wonder what's going to be happening there...
They get some bonus points for making the effort to support something besides Windows; if I can get the Linux version working on my Chromebook (via crostini) that would be *awesome*.
Given the recent passing of Ed Dillon (proprietor of Neconos.com, US distributor of QL), I wonder what's going to be happening there...
Have downloaded from your link and will see how it compares.
It's a beta version and just in my initial doing somewhat of a quick look, it looks to have some potential. But obvious, it needs a little more work to make it more user friendly. Will compare QL data with this Gordons app and report back when I can get around to it.
It's a beta version and just in my initial doing somewhat of a quick look, it looks to have some potential. But obvious, it needs a little more work to make it more user friendly. Will compare QL data with this Gordons app and report back when I can get around to it.
The biggest hurdle atm for Gordons reloading tool is the powder manufacturers are very reluctant to hand over any bomb data. You can import QL files but it doesn’t marry up 100% as the equations used are different (QL is 2point curve and GRT is 3 point curve). But in saying that, there is a team behind GRT which is gathering data to calculate more powder profiles.
If you find the powders you use are not listed or have decent profiles within GRT, feel free to provide GRT with any field verified data so the profile can start to be built. There is specific data required and if you are interested, let me know and I can list what is required by GRT in another post.
Overall the program is leaps and bounds ahead of QL and the team is constantly adding additional features to GRT. The latest being automated OBT calculation depending on which node you want to aim for. GRT has huge potential but will only be as good as the community that uses and feeds back any issues, required changes.
If you find the powders you use are not listed or have decent profiles within GRT, feel free to provide GRT with any field verified data so the profile can start to be built. There is specific data required and if you are interested, let me know and I can list what is required by GRT in another post.
Overall the program is leaps and bounds ahead of QL and the team is constantly adding additional features to GRT. The latest being automated OBT calculation depending on which node you want to aim for. GRT has huge potential but will only be as good as the community that uses and feeds back any issues, required changes.
What I'm most interested in is to see how close the velocity is given the precision loading details entered and how consistent it can be between various powder loads (understand differences in powder burn data due to manufacturers reluctance to disclose propriety formulas).
I see there are some cool features in GordonsReloading Tool (e.g. the Powder mass Steps and the ShotGroup history).
I see there are some cool features in GordonsReloading Tool (e.g. the Powder mass Steps and the ShotGroup history).
It's interesting how GRT is able to provide this sort of software available for free download over the internet.
Whenever people complained about why, in this modern day and age, QL was still only available via mail order on CD... the answer was always some excuse about ITAR, or extremely tight German software export restrictions.
I can't imagine that it would have changed any for GRT vs. QL... ??
Whenever people complained about why, in this modern day and age, QL was still only available via mail order on CD... the answer was always some excuse about ITAR, or extremely tight German software export restrictions.
I can't imagine that it would have changed any for GRT vs. QL... ??
I played with the program a little more last night. It has a long ways to go on powders and bullets that I use...but I think it has a lot of potential. I know I shouldn't look down on QuickLoad because it looks like some of the FORTRAN programs I wrote back in the day...it works..and works great...but I like both pretty and customizable interfaces. I think in 2019 we can expect apps that both look good and work good.
I know...rather have accurate data over good looks...but I want BOTH!
I know...rather have accurate data over good looks...but I want BOTH!
I've been messing more with this tool and I did a little guessing on some input variables as I couldn't find them for the Hornady 300 PRC Cartridge....so I had to make my own. Here's what I'm looking at:
Matched against this real world data a few weeks ago:
What do you guys think?
Matched against this real world data a few weeks ago:
What do you guys think?
I need some Quickload type calc's for a cartridge. Searching this forum brought me to this. I tried to register last night but never received the "activation code". For those that have been able to download, how long did it take to receive the code?
Thank you,
MrSmith
Thank you,
MrSmith
I received the quote almost immediately, but it won't run on my Windows 10 computer.
Running fine on Windows 10 here. And my reply was within 5 mins...but that was a month ago.
I've tried three times to register for the download. Yesterday with a username and password, second time about 4 hours later with a different username and password because the site recognized the first username was in use. Then again today using the original username and password, as the site didn't say the username was already in use.
Then I attempted to join the GRT discussion board to ask for help. As with the registrations they were to send an activation code. With each of the 4 attempted registrations, after not receiving the code, I clicked to request they resend. As yet I've received nothing at all.
I believe the problem to be on my end since others have had success. I've disabled add blockers and allowed access to information usually kept blocked. I'm lost.
So, anyone have a suggestion? Or maybe someone could just run a few loads for me on their software?
Just road kill on the information super highway,
MrSmith
Then I attempted to join the GRT discussion board to ask for help. As with the registrations they were to send an activation code. With each of the 4 attempted registrations, after not receiving the code, I clicked to request they resend. As yet I've received nothing at all.
I believe the problem to be on my end since others have had success. I've disabled add blockers and allowed access to information usually kept blocked. I'm lost.
So, anyone have a suggestion? Or maybe someone could just run a few loads for me on their software?
Just road kill on the information super highway,
MrSmith
That was it! I was amazed I had "junk mail". Now I'm amazed what was in "junk mail"
Like RG, now to figure out the new program.
Thank you,
MrSmith
@MrSmith I think I saw you on GRT's Discord server. I chatted with Gordon a bit and I ended up adding entry's for the 300 PRC Cartridge, an Edit to the 225gr ELD-M, and built new entries for the 230 and 250 grain A-Tips. Hopefully they are included in the next update. I had to do some guessing and extrapolating some variables from other sources...but hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong on a thing or two.
I'm going to try and use his Powder Measure Template to see if maybe I can go to the range soon and gather data for Retumbo. There is much work left to be done to fill in the blanks that a lot of shooters here in the USA use. Luckily I use N565 powder and someone already did the work for me on that one.
I'm going to try and use his Powder Measure Template to see if maybe I can go to the range soon and gather data for Retumbo. There is much work left to be done to fill in the blanks that a lot of shooters here in the USA use. Luckily I use N565 powder and someone already did the work for me on that one.
On the latest build which can be found on their Patreon page, two of the bullet models I compiled for the 230 and 250 grain A-Tips are now included. The 300 PRC cartridge isn't included yet because C.I.P. hasn't yet certified it. I did my modeling for my personal build of 300 PRC based on the SAAMI specs and a little guess work using the parent case and some knowledge gleamed here on SH Forums.
Yes, it is a way to reverse engineer all the data you need for powders when the powder companies keep that stuff secretive. Strap a string gauge on your rifle and play with different charge weights and seating depths...and of course record muzzle velocity.
I had downloaded it but never really tested it. Tonight I had some time but the old version had expired so I updated it and played for a bit with the software.
Once you get used to the interface it is really nice. I created four cartridge files 308, 223, 6.5 Creed and 6mm Creed.
The 308, 6.5 Creed and the 223 velocity predictions were right on the money, the 6mm Creed velocity predictions were a bit slower than my results .
It displays the bullet barrel time and the optimum barrel time numbers for your barrel length and velocity, I am going to have to look into this deeper as I am not sure if optimum barrel time is an effective method to help pick nodes or is it snake oil.
I hope that the author keeps moving forward with this software as it looks very promising.
Once you get used to the interface it is really nice. I created four cartridge files 308, 223, 6.5 Creed and 6mm Creed.
The 308, 6.5 Creed and the 223 velocity predictions were right on the money, the 6mm Creed velocity predictions were a bit slower than my results .
It displays the bullet barrel time and the optimum barrel time numbers for your barrel length and velocity, I am going to have to look into this deeper as I am not sure if optimum barrel time is an effective method to help pick nodes or is it snake oil.
I hope that the author keeps moving forward with this software as it looks very promising.
The calculations look close between this tool and Quickload. I am getting about 50 fps faster prediction with Gordon's Tool.
The OBT correction feature based on observed velocities is nice.
The OBT correction feature based on observed velocities is nice.
could you explain this feature to a newbie to this type of software. I have it and have been playing with it.
How about I just link the white paper to you and let you read: http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm
if i understood correctly it's for linux and windows...but i don't think it is set up for apple/mac
Yes, currently for Linux and Windows. The current release is only a few days old with a few improvements to uploading your data to help truing the powder models.
There is software that let’s you run windows apps on a Mac in containers. I’m doing it with GRT. I forget what it’s called, I’ll look it up tomorrow.
The OBT paper is a great resource.
The largest variable I have seen over time is when switching batches of powder. The burn rate (Ba) can vary about +/-3%. Using the observed velocity feature you can quickly shot a few rounds of a new batch of powder and calculate your new charge weight. Or you can manually vary the Ba factor to match your observed velocity. With enough data the burn rate chart in the upper right corner of the Gordon's tool should actually show error bars or a shaded area around the burn rate line.
Remember when you first posted this workup in the 300PRC forum. Started looking into the tool yesterday due to a brass / powder swap on 6.5CM, and wanting to workup a heavier 6.5 PRC. 6.5CM data seems very good compared to real world. Verified and updated: Case length & volume, Cartridge length, Projectile length, Boatail length. Compared the data vs. actual ladder. MV seems pretty close with amended inputs and GRT data predicted Pmax -15% and Pmax Absolute pretty close to where I started seeing pressure signs. GRT Predicted PmA around 41.8G. I started seeing flattened primers at 41.2, ejector swipes at 42.10G, heavy bolt at 43. *Load workup: 6.5CM Virgin Lapua/SMK 142/RL16/Ladder 40.0 > 43.3G-in 0.3 / 50.6 H20 / CasL 1.912 / CtgL 2.853 / BrlL 24 / ProL 1.38 / L/D .23. Curious to see if you've continued having success using GRT and see what (if any) issues you've found to watch out for?
Gr Actual GRT V.dif
40 2693 2703 10
40.3 2725 2723 -2
40.6 2749 2743 -6
40.9 2761 2762 1
41.2 2781 2782 1
41.5 2787 2801 14
41.8 2815 2821 6
42.1 2835 2840 5
42.4 2839 2859 20
42.7 2872 2878 6
43 2892 2897 5
43.3 2901 2915 14
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I went back and compared my 300 PRC data to predictions in Quickload and GRT (after measuring water capacity of cases). GRT was generally within 30 fps for everything. Quickoad was off by over 100 fps most of the time. QL also claimed case fill with RL33 was only 98% when it was a very compressed load. Unfortunately GRT is still missing a lot of powder data, but at least for that cartridge it seems to be a far better option.
Funny you'd say that because I just realized today there's no RL-26 data in GRT. I'd like to see deeper into my 300 PRC / RL-26 / 230 BHT combo. 230 BHT's gave me trouble from day one for some reason. Finally got them dialed in but they were a PITA for some reason.
Hello...I was supposed to get some solid RL-26 data for GRT. But.....competition season got in the way and I neglected some responsibilities and things just fell behind. I'm also supposed to be getting some BL-C(2) data for 308....I'll try to do that soon as well.
However, if any of you guys have RL-26 data with a MagnetoSpeed or Labradar....and would like to send it in....Gordon would appreciate it. I did the work for the 300PRC cartridge addition and N565 powder data....and that is basically what I almost always use now. The 230 and 250 A-Tips I spent a lot of time gathering data on as well.
Tuesday I'll be at the range again gathering data on 250 A-Tips, ADG Brass, and N565 Powder. I'll be slightly playing with charge weights....eventhough I know within a half grain of where I will be.....but mostly playing with seating depths. My loads will ALL be too long to magazine feed. I'll be shooting the 2020 TVP ELR Invitational on the 19th with targets from 1760yds to 2400yds. The 300PRC barrel has 1200 rounds on it....so we will see if I can hold my high muzzle velocities....with low SD/ES.
However, if any of you guys have RL-26 data with a MagnetoSpeed or Labradar....and would like to send it in....Gordon would appreciate it. I did the work for the 300PRC cartridge addition and N565 powder data....and that is basically what I almost always use now. The 230 and 250 A-Tips I spent a lot of time gathering data on as well.
Tuesday I'll be at the range again gathering data on 250 A-Tips, ADG Brass, and N565 Powder. I'll be slightly playing with charge weights....eventhough I know within a half grain of where I will be.....but mostly playing with seating depths. My loads will ALL be too long to magazine feed. I'll be shooting the 2020 TVP ELR Invitational on the 19th with targets from 1760yds to 2400yds. The 300PRC barrel has 1200 rounds on it....so we will see if I can hold my high muzzle velocities....with low SD/ES.
Just like with any powder you should obtain, realize that there are often differences from lot to lot. Someone's chrono data can certainly help to get one started, the initial chrono testing to get the MV of your current lot of powder is what you need for an app like this to give you meaningful help. An initial somewhat mild to moderate load helps to safely get you a burn rate to use. Then, once you've adjusted the burn rate accordingly, the app should be helpful with the rest of your load development.
So you're saying if I can send him chrono data he'll reverse engineer the RL-26 Pbomb? How do you figure he determines I'm not throwing him a crap data set due to a bad chrono or maybe simply I'm just some wacko?
Well...you need to send him a lot more details besides muzzle velocity and powder weight....H2O volume of a fired cases, OAL, bullet used...if new then all the details of the bullet....ambient temperature....barrel length......
basically you build a profile of the round in your GRT tools....import your chrono data....and export that file to Gordon....
AND THEN....it is put in with other users data until a confidence model can be calculated....the more users data...the higher the confidence of that data.
Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I got some GRT skool'n to do.
