Got My CHL ,need an opinion about small carry gun with high capacity.

Atti_Mac

Atti_Mac

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Apr 15, 2010
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#1
I thought it will be easy just pick something, but like always , I come to the same conclusion , I can't decide :)
I have the Bloodwork S&W 627, but it is too big to carry , and my 1911 way to big :(

I am looking for ,
- possible double auction
- at least 8-rounds but prefer over 1o
- 9mm , or if you can talk me into a .380 :)
- small , easy to carry

I am thinking about :

- S&W M&P Shield
- CZ 2075 RAMI BD
- Walther PPS

Hope you guys can help me out :)
 
#2
I know nothing of the cz. I have a shield and really like it. I looked at the pps. Imo the pps isn't in the same league size wise as the shield. Another to look at is the kahr pm9.

I've carried an mp9, mp9c and 642 for the past few years and now that I have the shield I doubt I'll carry the 642 or mp9c again.

That's my opinion. Im sure somebody else has a different one.
 
#3
The CZ83 in .380 is a very nice carry package, it has a double stack mag. Loaded with buffalo bore ammo, it is quite potent but easily controllable.
A very good copy of the PPKS is the Bersa Thunder. They are very accurate, reliable and well made.

Many folks poo-poo the small .380's like the kel-tec, ruger and taurus, but remember, the number one rule of a gunfight is to have a gun.
If the gun requires a certain level of dress to conceal, you will find yourself leaving it at home when you make a quick trip to the store. These are called pocket pistols for a reason.

I have carried guns from an airweight (which I am actually carrying this week), to an N frame .41 magnum.
My normal off duty gun is a Taurus 24/7 pro 9mm. It is accurate, absolutely reliable and lightweight for a 17 shot 9mm.
 
#4
Glock 19, S&W mp9 compact, XDm 9

I tried the subcompact route and was ultimately unhappy with the results. The Ruger LC9 is extremely picky on ammo and often has problems with stuck primers. The other pocket 9s will have varying levels of performance and reliability but I think I'll skip the pocket/sub-compact category for the rest of my life and be happy with compact sized pistols. Honestly, if you get the right holster, no one will be able to tell your carrying unless they're trained to look for it in your gate.
 
#5
fdkay said:
The CZ83 in .380 is a very nice carry package, it has a double stack mag. Loaded with buffalo bore ammo, it is quite potent but easily controllable.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that, because I was about to. I've got one of the few ones in 9mm Makarov, and my only misgiving is that the spare magazines are uncomfortable on the waist. Other than that, it's a good compromise. Beretta and Browning made practically identical pistols (the M84 "Cheetah" and the BDA .380) that also fit the bill.
 
#9
I've been carrying a Glock 27 for a few months now and am very happy. If you want a 9, then the 26. Very light, good capacity, and it disappears on your waist. I've even stuffed it in cargo pocket of my shorts (in a holster) without too much bulk. My $.02.
 
#10
I am currently carrying the glockenspiel 26. Love it, but it is what it is. As mentioned above, when you go sub compact, you run into issues. I am very seriously considering a sig scorpion. It has a nice slim frame and is a 45. Just a thought. You may not like the idea of a 1911 style pistol. Some don't.
 
#12
If you are looking for something to carry around for your CHL, I would suggest giving a very good look & feel over to the Ruger LCR in .357
You can choose then from .38 special, .38 special +P or .357 wild loads depending on what you feel more comfortable with.
It is the opposite of high capacity having only 5 rounds, but that is more than enough to get the job done on a couple of bad guys.
You also have the advantage in bad breath range of being able to shoot from your coat pocket. The handle on the normal one (NOT the laser grip one) is excellent.
You can drop it in a pocket with a pocket holster and nobody knows it is there.
 
#17
I can NOT be happier with my XDS in 45. With 6 in the weapon and 7 more in single stack mag holder on the hip,, if I can't solve my problem with 13 .45 Black Talons, I'm basicly in combat and really need to leave now. The XDS in a Desantis mini-scabbard just disappears at my 7 O'clock, I'm very pleased with how it hadles as well.
It's out in 9MM now too,, not sure the capacity tho..
 
#20
Sig P239 or small Glock. P239 has a great trigger, is easy to shoot accurately. G26 if you want something really small. I would rather have something medium and thin, though. However the Glock 26 is pretty light.

s
 
#21
You should NOT discount Glocks. In the compact pistol world, they're among the best. Frankly, there is no such thing as "the best" in this conversation. You need to line up a Shield, XD compact, compact Glock, and anything else you're curious about and shoot them all. Go with what you can shoot the best and fits your needs. Also, try out a Springfield revolver for a true lightweight carry rig. My old sergeant major said that if you get yourself into a situation that five rounds of 38 Spl+P can't get you out of, it's your own fault. There's some truth in that statement, though when I have the chance to CCW, I only carry my Glock 23. We've given you your best options, the only way to find out what works for you is to find a range that will let you try before you buy. Have fun, these are First World problems!
 
#23
For high capacity, look at Sig P224. Short grip reduces printing, 10 rounds .40 or 12 rounds 9mm.

Also Wilson Combat Spec-Ops 9. 16 rounds in a 1911!
 
#27
+ 1 for the Glock 19, Best analogy I have heard was if you can keep your Harley or Hot Rod on the road then you can run a 1911,
If you treat your gun like you treat your Lawn Mower then you need a GLOCK!

G 19 replace the sights (10-8 Performance rear and tritium front) add a spring and a disconnector and its damn hard to beat.
 
#30
< < < SC state certified CWP instructor

Glocks sucketh. Grip is made for orangutans.

Try a Kahr CW9 or P9.

80+% of "gunfights" the person defending with a gun never actually fires a shot.

Of the remaining 20%, the vast majority of those the fight is over in 2-3 rounds fired.

As such, capacity is over rated. Yer not a cop, or a SWAT team members, with prolonged Hollywood-esque shootouts being the norm.

More important than capacity is having a gun that you will carry with you every single time, and that you will practice with. The super tiny guns are very difficult to practice with, and the high capacity guns get left home, or in the car.

I recommend mid-capacity guns (6-8 rounds) that carry most easily. Hence the Kahr CW9, or XDs (9mm over 45 ACP)
 
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#32
I think folks tend to look at CWP pieces as jewelry, or shoes. They want Jewelry to show off. They want shoes to fit just right. I tend to view them as tools. When I need to drive a nail I don't care if I use a Snap-On Hammer or a Wal-Mart Hammer. I just need a hammer. Lots of folks rule out Glocks because of the "looks", or the way they "feel". My advice would be to buy or borrow a Glock 19. Put a thousand or so rounds through it, and re-evaluate your anti-Glock stance. From a practicality stand point, Glocks are hard to beat. They are relatively in-expensive (especially with a GSSF membership), they are easy to work on, they have a proven track record, they have interchangeable parts, they have interchangeable magazines, and best of all the holsters are interchangeable. I like the Raven Vanguard, and the Comp-tac MTac holsters. Any Glock (9, 357 sig or 40) that I own will fit the same holster. There is a lot to be said for that practicality. Remember should you ever have to use the weapon (God Forbid) you may not get it back, and if you do it might not be serviceable. Also, I would highly recommend that you purchase a pistol in 9mm.

Chip
 
#33
The_Count said:
I think folks tend to look at CWP pieces as jewelry, or shoes. They want Jewelry to show off. They want shoes to fit just right. I tend to view them as tools. When I need to drive a nail I don't care if I use a Snap-On Hammer or a Wal-Mart Hammer. I just need a hammer. Lots of folks rule out Glocks because of the "looks", or the way they "feel". My advice would be to buy or borrow a Glock 19. Put a thousand or so rounds through it, and re-evaluate your anti-Glock stance.

Chip
Click to expand...

I've tried Glocks. The grip angle is (for me) horrible. It is BAD advice to tell people to forget their physiology / anatomy when purchasing a CWP gun. Under stress, your skeletal structure is gonna win out over any training. To fight against your skeletal structure in the choice of your CWP gun is gonna slow you down. And in this "game" slow = dead.



Above all, the choice of carry gun should be one that points naturally for the shooter. Glocks don't for me. If they don't for others, I as a CWP instructor will remain adamant they NOT purchase a Glock for CWP.
 
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#34
garandman said:
I've tried Glocks. The grip angle is (for me) horrible. It is BAD advice to tell people to forget their physiology / anatomy when purchasing a CWP gun. Under stress, your skeletal structure is gonna win out over any training. To fight against your skeletal structure in the choice of your CWP gun is gonna slow you down. And in this "game" slow = dead.



Above all, the choice of carry gun should be one that points naturally for the shooter. Glocks don't for me. If they don't for others, I as a CWP instructor will remain adamant they NOT purchase a Glock for CWP.
Click to expand...

Grandman,

First of all, thank you for editing your post. I prefer to view these forums as a place for civil and intellectual discussion. Second of all, I agree with you; to an extent.

There is a lot of bias against Glocks on the internet. For some of those people there is a real issue that causes them to dislike the ergonomics. For others, Not You, there are a lot of people who have never shot them that parrot what others have said.

As someone who sees novice and experienced shooters alike, I am sure you have seen you fair share of shooters for whom a Glock is sub optimal. My post was specifically targeting the OP who seemed to have little experience in the area of compact and sub-compact carry pistols. I have taken many shooters to the range for whom a Glock would never be a choice. Why? Because people on the internet say they are awkward to hold, shoot, or aim. Most range sessions end with more interest the the Glock platform than disinterest. Despite any ergonomic shortcomings of the Glock design, there are benefits. There are few, if any, handgun platforms that are more practical than that of the Glock. They should not be discounted without actually running rounds through them. Also, many of the issue you see with the ergonomics are little more than lack of practice. No brand new handgunner should purchase or discount a pistol or because of the way feels in the gun store. Muscle memory is what should "Point" the gun.

Now all of that said, I am actually not in love with Glocks. I would much rather shoot an H&K or Walther PPQ, but neither of those platforms are as "Practical" or "Utilitarian".

Chip
 
#35
The_Count said:
Grandman,

There is a lot of bias against Glocks on the internet.
Chip
Click to expand...


You must live on a different internet than I do.

And the name is "garandman." Thank you.

You keep mentioning "practicality." I'm not exactly sure how you define that, but as I define it, it wouldn't even register on the 10 top list of items to consider on choosing a CCW gun. You mention Glock models have interchangeable parts, and all use the same holster. That has NOTHING to do with why you choose a particular gun for CWP. You mention the possibility of not getting the gun back after a self defense shooting. What does that have to do with the choice of a CWP gun?

So maybe the word "fanboy" is a bit pejorative, but do you see why I'm inclined to use it with Glock owners? It seems with Glock owners the answer to the question "What gun to buy? "is ALWAYS "Glock."
 
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#36
The_Count said:
I think folks tend to look at CWP pieces as jewelry, or shoes. They want Jewelry to show off. They want shoes to fit just right. I tend to view them as tools. When I need to drive a nail I don't care if I use a Snap-On Hammer or a Wal-Mart Hammer. I just need a hammer. Lots of folks rule out Glocks because of the "looks", or the way they "feel". My advice would be to buy or borrow a Glock 19. Put a thousand or so rounds through it, and re-evaluate your anti-Glock stance. From a practicality stand point, Glocks are hard to beat. They are relatively in-expensive (especially with a GSSF membership), they are easy to work on, they have a proven track record, they have interchangeable parts, they have interchangeable magazines, and best of all the holsters are interchangeable. I like the Raven Vanguard, and the Comp-tac MTac holsters. Any Glock (9, 357 sig or 40) that I own will fit the same holster. There is a lot to be said for that practicality. Remember should you ever have to use the weapon (God Forbid) you may not get it back, and if you do it might not be serviceable. Also, I would highly recommend that you purchase a pistol in 9mm.

Chip
Click to expand...

I'd vote Glock too. I lot of the people who can't learn to deal with Glocks started shooting with a 1911 type grip angle and it takes some time getting used to something different, and it takes a lot of range time to get comfortable with it. Barring any major physical deformities, the human skeletal structure is more alike than different for all human beings. The first handgun I bought was a Glock, so it's what I'm used to. I can shoot 1911s just fine, but I have much more trigger time with my Glock so that is what I am most proficient/comfortable with.

Make anybody take a 3 day CHL/CCW tactics class where they fire 1500+ plus, and they will get used to a new gun in that time.

A lot of the smaller guns mentioned (shield,xds,pm9,revolvers) won't meet the minimum ammo requirement.

If you can't deal with the Glock grip angle, get a compact M&P, at least for backup and carry it in a suitcase or backpack.

I'd define practicality as a modern polymer combat handgun with 10+ round capacity. If it's out of the situation to carry it on your person in a holster, having one in a suitcase or backup that you can fight to if the need arises is the most practical option if you ever find yourself in a gunfight. A pocket gun may be better than nothing, but if you are carrying a handgun aware that one day you may be against a 'bad guy' who is well intent on harming you majorly instead of just an asshole out to cause you an inconvenience, I'd carry as much firepower as possible.
 
#37
garandman said:
You must live on a different internet than I do.

And the name is "garandman." Thank you.

You keep mentioning "practicality." I'm not exactly sure how you define that, but as I define it, it wouldn't even register on the 10 top list of items to consider on choosing a CCW gun. You mention Glock models have interchangeable parts, and all use the same holster. That has NOTHING to do with why you choose a particular gun for CWP. You mention the possibility of not getting the gun back after a self defense shooting. What does that have to do with the choice of a CWP gun?

So maybe the word "fanboy" is a bit pejorative, but do you see why I'm inclined to use it with Glock owners? It seems with Glock owners the answer to the question "What gun to buy? "is ALWAYS "Glock."
Click to expand...

Garandman,

My apologies for the misspelling. It was not intentional.

My first post was a feeble attempt to explain exactly what I meant by practical. I am sure that, should we be having this conversation over a beer, I could more eloquently express my point of view. It seems as though the OP was swayed by what others "Said", or he didn't like the way they "Felt". Far more often than not people can, and do shoot them well. Perhaps there is a learning curve associated with the grip, but it is not something that will affect all people (assuming they regularly train with it). I am only pointing out that they are, in fact, a great choice. That coupled with their affordability, and modularity, make them a Practical choice. In actual use they will give up little or nothing over a Kahr, H&K, or Custom 1911. Is it an advantage to have parts readily available? What about magazines? What about holsters? Having those things available, and reasonably priced is an advantage. As such it make the choice Practical.

The same argument might be made for the M&P platform. I have little experience with them, so I can not speak to that. I do have a lot of experience with the glock platform. Because I have that experience I can recommend them. Only the OP can decide what works best for him. Hopefully that choice involves more than just holding the thing at a gun store.

Chip
 
#38
Atti_Mac,
All those you mention are nice. After shooting those (except the CZ) and a few others I would look at the Kahr PM9 and also the M&P 9c.

After talking with a LEO buddy (Chief and former SWAT) I was convinced that I am never likely to have the training/real world experience that Mil/LEO has and if I find myself in a 'need to use' situation as many things need to come naturally as possible. For me that was not the Glock(great guns) but rather the S&W's. I just got a great deal on a Kahr and I will see how natural that feels. Try them and see what fits best.

Not sure you can go too far wrong in today's world.
 
#40
woojos said:
If it's out of the situation to carry it on your person in a holster, having one in a suitcase or backup that you can fight to if the need arises is the most practical option if you ever find yourself in a gunfight. A pocket gun may be better than nothing, but if you are carrying a handgun aware that one day you may be against a 'bad guy' who is well intent on harming you majorly instead of just an asshole out to cause you an inconvenience, I'd carry as much firepower as possible.
Click to expand...

You need to rethink this mentality. Honestly, if you're 'fighting to' something, it better be a rifle.
 
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