Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

#3
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stenger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got some 338 berger bullets and they shoot awesome!!! No just kidding!!

Anyone know when they are going to be out????? </div></div>

Bastid....Sucked me in.

They said the machine would be online Q1 2010 then they need to debug....

will call late Q1 2010.....
 
#4
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I've seen the spec on these and they look phenomenal. Would love to get my hands on some for some 1K shooting over the next few weeks.
 
#6
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen the spec on these and they look phenomenal. Would love to get my hands on some for some 1K shooting over the next few weeks. </div></div>

1000 would be a waste with a good 338 bullet.
 
#7
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing testing on the new 338 bergers. Here is the number 208-847-1200. I here that they will he phenominal.

Darrin
 
#8
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I called Berger two months ago on these bullets,they said that the first vendor that will get them is Sinclair,after that it is up for grabs.The 300gr SMK seem to be doing just fine for me.I also have a couple of boxes of the Lehigh Boreriders for showing off
 
#9
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

In Bryan Litz's book titled "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting" there are drawings and *estimated* G7 & G1 BC data for 3 different 300gr Bergers. The VLD has a G1 BC of 0.914 and a G7 BC of 0.468. If these numbers prove to be correct and <span style="text-decoration: underline">IF</span> you can get these bad boys to shoot properly out of your rifle......it's going to be very interesting to see how far they're going to fly.
 
#11
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strictlyRUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen the spec on these and they look phenomenal. Would love to get my hands on some for some 1K shooting over the next few weeks. </div></div>

1000 would be a waste with a good 338 bullet. </div></div>

Agreed but that would be a good starter test for load development and grouping. If it performs there, the only thing left it to run it out to its transonic limit to verify stability. From there, stock up!
 
#12
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing testing on the new 338 bergers. Here is the number 208-847-1200. I here that they will he phenominal.

Darrin</div></div>

Sorry guys,
I've got to run 'rumor intercept' on this. No one, anywhere, is currently doing testing on any .338 Berger bullets. I know this because we haven't started making them yet. The machine is 'assembled', things will continue to progress until they're produced.

Unless you meant that they're <span style="font-style: italic">going to be doing</span> testing when the bullets are available. In that case, I apologize for my mis-interpretation.

The relevant design dimensions have been shared with gunsmiths who are building rifles for these bullets so maybe there was a mis communication about what Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing. Maybe they're building rifles <span style="font-style: italic">for</span> the new bullets?

Believe me, I'm as excited as anyone for these bullets to be available. Shawn at Defensive Edge 'smithed us an awesome .338 Edge for the specific purpose of testing these bullets to their limits.

Take care,
-Bryan

 
#13
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing testing on the new 338 bergers. Here is the number 208-847-1200. I here that they will he phenominal.

Darrin</div></div>

Sorry guys,
I've got to run 'rumor intercept' on this. No one, anywhere, is currently doing testing on any .338 Berger bullets. I know this because we haven't started making them yet. The machine is 'assembled', things will continue to progress until they're produced.

Unless you meant that they're <span style="font-style: italic">going to be doing</span> testing when the bullets are available. In that case, I apologize for my mis-interpretation.

The relevant design dimensions have been shared with gunsmiths who are building rifles for these bullets so maybe there was a mis communication about what Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing. Maybe they're building rifles <span style="font-style: italic">for</span> the new bullets?

Believe me, I'm as excited as anyone for these bullets to be available. Shawn at Defensive Edge 'smithed us an awesome .338 Edge for the specific purpose of testing these bullets to their limits.

Take care,
-Bryan

</div></div>

From the horse's mouth.......
 
#16
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing testing on the new 338 bergers. Here is the number 208-847-1200. I here that they will he phenominal.

Darrin</div></div>

Sorry guys,
I've got to run 'rumor intercept' on this. No one, anywhere, is currently doing testing on any .338 Berger bullets. I know this because we haven't started making them yet. The machine is 'assembled', things will continue to progress until they're produced.

Unless you meant that they're <span style="font-style: italic">going to be doing</span> testing when the bullets are available. In that case, I apologize for my mis-interpretation.

The relevant design dimensions have been shared with gunsmiths who are building rifles for these bullets so maybe there was a mis communication about what Elk country sports in montpiller Idaho is doing. Maybe they're building rifles <span style="font-style: italic">for</span> the new bullets?

Believe me, I'm as excited as anyone for these bullets to be available. Shawn at Defensive Edge 'smithed us an awesome .338 Edge for the specific purpose of testing these bullets to their limits.

Take care,
-Bryan

</div></div>

From the horse's mouth....... </div></div>
At least we get the honest word from Bryan,they will come out when they come out.
 
#17
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I have heard that the 338 Berger's are going to have an ogive measurement .250 longer than the SMK. Not sure if this will work in any existing DMB systems. Might only be able to shoot these as a single shot, or short throat the chamber. I hope this is not the case.
 
#18
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have heard that the 338 Berger's are going to have an ogive measurement .250 longer than the SMK. Not sure if this will work in any existing DMB systems. Might only be able to shoot these as a single shot, or short throat the chamber. I hope this is not the case. </div></div>

I spoke with someone at Berger not too long ago, don't think it was Brian, and he gave me the measurements of the 300 gr VLD and it was 0.200" longer overall and the ogive length was in ballpark you mentioned.
 
#19
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluejazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have heard that the 338 Berger's are going to have an ogive measurement .250 longer than the SMK. Not sure if this will work in any existing DMB systems. Might only be able to shoot these as a single shot, or short throat the chamber. I hope this is not the case. </div></div>

That would suck and blow at the same time.....
 
#22
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RaiderDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Bryan,
Can you tell us what the BC for the .338 line of bullets will be?

Thanks.
</div></div>

There will be 3 250 grain designs and 3 300 grain designs with projected BC's as follows.

Bullet/G1BC/G7BC

250BT/.648/.332
250HYB/.743/.380
250VLD/.762/.390

300BT/.777/.398
300HYB/.892/.456
300VLD/.914/.468

Keep in mind these are estimated values based on the designs. They're probably only accurate to within +/- 5% or 10%. We'll know better what they are when they're tested.

It's true that these bullets will be much longer in the nose than other bullets in their class. They will severely challenge magazine feeding for most rifles. Our objective with this design was to optimize BC without limiting the length of the bullet. High BC and nose length go hand-in-hand. If you want a higher BC, it means longer noses which are harder to make magazine length ammo with.

If anyone is planning a rifle for these bullets and wants to insure their magazine and throat will work for a repeater, you can have your gunsmith contact me and I'll provide the relevant dimensions of the bullet necessary for proper throat/magazine design.

The 250 grain bullets will require a 1:11" twist or faster and the 300's require 1:10" or faster.

Take care,
-Bryan
 
#24
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Hey Bryan, most off the people shooting the current 300 grainers are using 1 in 9.3 or so and saying 1 and 10 is a little slow. The big bergers will need a faster twist right??? I beleive you on your twist recommendations just asking. Thanks Bryan

Jake
 
#26
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Steve,
They'll need to be made on the 'big press', the one that's being built for .338 so it will be a while since that machine will be making .338's non-stop for a long time.

Jake,
As with many things, you can't really know for sure until it's tested, but the math says a 1:10" twist will be adequate. There are actually two parts to the stability question for this forum ecpecially (beyond 1000 yards). Part A is: what twist is required for stability from the muzzle to transonic speed. This is the 1:10". Part B of the question is: what twist <span style="font-style: italic">might be</span> necessary to maintain stability thru transonic. Part B is much harder to answer. I suspect this is why the 1:9.4" twist is popular with the currently available .338's; not for initial stability, but maybe improved stability at transonic ranges. My test rifle for these bullets is a .338 Edge which I have both a 1:10" twist and a 1:9" twist barrels. I aim to see if there is any difference in the bullets' performance at supersonic and trans/sub-sonic velocities with the two twists.

jcvibby,
HBY stands for 'Hybrid'. It's a blend between the VLD (secant) and tangent ogive. It's tangent at the bearing surface which will make the bullet less sensitive to seating depth, and transitions to a longer radius on the forward portion for drag reduction.

-Bryan
 
#28
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Stiller SINGLE shot action Tac 338 Check
Krieger #7 1:9.3 30" Check
338Lapua Improved Reamer Check
Manner T4A stock Check


Just waiting for the 300gr VLD, before I chamber this thing up! LOL
 
#35
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I've had samples in my hand. Last I heard they are working on the feed rails in the press. They want to run a bullet they are very familar with first to work out the bugs in the press. Then when they're happy with everything the 338's will get run.
 
#36
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

When available, if someone could post the base to ogive measurement of the 300gr. Bergers , I would much appreciate it. I have a single shot Nesika now shooting the 300 SMK and am wondering how much further the bullet will be in the case. Thanks
 
#38
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

mav, Sorry this took so long....been out of the country for a couple weeks.

I use N560 for the 250's and Retumbo with the 300's. I'd love to try the N570 for the 300's if I could only find some..
 
#40
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

N570 is or was available from Powder Valley.

Some food for thought. 338's are fun but have yet to equal the accuracy of a 30 cal. I proved that to myself again last week.

I started testing a big 30 that will be on the market soon. 240's at 2800-2900FPS Life is good.
 
#42
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">N570 is or was available from Powder Valley.

Some food for thought. 338's are fun but have yet to equal the accuracy of a 30 cal. I proved that to myself again last week.

I started testing a big 30 that will be on the market soon. 240's at 2800-2900FPS Life is good. </div></div>

Dave is it like my 30-375Ruger.It's putting 240's at 2925fps.I backed it off from 2950fps.

PS would somebody please come out with a .8BC 30cal bullet that don't cost $1.70 a piece!

DSC00024.jpg


Steve
 
#43
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Steve- I'd love to see a 240gr Amax that has similar external shape to the Amax. If Sierra would revamp the 210's or 240's they could make up a lot of ground on Hornady or Berger. Right now the best deal in 30 cal bullets in my opinion is the 208 Amax, it doesn't have quite the BC of the 240 SMK, but it's close enough that the extra cost for the SMK and the higher velocities in the 208 loads are not worth it to me.

A 240 with the same form factor as the 208 would run a BC close to the 300 SMK in 338 from my napkin scribbling math... that would be VERY impressive.
 
#44
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

The issue with a stretched version of the A Max is the OAL of the bullet. Jacket length and the difficulty of drawing a long match grade jacket, assembling a straight concentric bullet that long, magazine length, throat length, case intrusion and possibly twist rate would come into play. If twist rate has to be increased then RPM's go up. Push it too hard and we have disappearing bullets. Everything is a compromise. I want a bullet with enough BC to get the job done, .625 to .725, then it has to be accurate.
I have shot a 187 gr. FB bullet in 1K competition for a long time. Very rarely have I ever felt I didn't have enough BC. Which on that bullet is .525
 
#46
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Dave- Thanks for the insight on the bullet length. I was less concerned with having enough BC at 1k to having BC's up where the 338 caliber bullets are and getting them to those speeds. I was thinking along the lines of a 30 caliber that would have as good or better trajectory numbers at 1500+ yards.

It might not be possible to get quite the same form factor for the longer bullet, but I can't help but think that a large improvement over the current 240 would be possible, especially since it has a 155gr ogive on it with a country mile of bearing surface.
 
#47
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I know Dave
smile.gif
I've had discussions with some of the bullets makers about this subject.It's good that you gave that explanation.Certainly correct.

Berger said they would be able to accomplish making a heavy higher BC 30cal on the new machinery they bought to do their new .338 bullets.Hopefully within the next year it'll happen.

Rather than all out benchrest accuracy,I built my 30-375R to shoot the 240's from 1000Y to 1800Y as a cheaper alternative to my 375CT or getting a 338L.Believe me,my 30-375R doesn't give up anything in actual field conditions compared to any of the 338 none Cheytac cases and with only 78 grains of powder.

I tried a certain boutique bullet makers aluminum tipped 30 cal bullet with a supposed .88 BC but the accuracy was .75-1MOA compared to .3-4MOA for the 240SMK's and at $1.70 per projectile was as much as my 375CT projos.

Hint-hint.If someone would come out with a reasonably priced 30 cal high BC lathe turned solid that would be cool to.

Steve
 
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